Restoration Difficulty Level

[andyburns]

Thanks Garry,  That has confirmed it in concrete for me.  Looks nothing like my early one.  Why oh why oh why wouldn't the vendors chime in and say 'you might have problems with this'.

Not so much thinking about buds but more GAHH.  Its their industry and I would like to think that even if a customer inadvertently ordered the wrong gear they would be quick to point out the implications.

The upshot to me is that I might now be at least a month backwards on the seats and probably a couple of hundy to send back the pads.  Arrrrggggghhhhhhhhhfhhhhhhhhh.  Might go and have a few shots of whiskey.

Its so nice when everything fits out of the box.

[andyburns]

All in all I am so happy with the stuff from GAHH.  The carpet set fitted like a glove.  I had a trial fit up done in about 10 minutes.  The crap I got off ebay took hours and hours to even resemble fitting.

I don't know how to describe the relief that comes after paying a small ransom for this stuff to when it turns up and just melts into place.  I am certain I will have no problems fitting these myself with minimal nipping and tucking required.    Am blown away at the fit.  Perfect GAHH.  Hats off!  Anyone else thinking of a carpet set,  I can now rubber stamp Buds option as being right up there for price and quality.

The set I got of ebay was a disasters in comparison and would have required a very skilled auto trim guys hand for at least a day or so to get right.   I have almost absolute confidence that, given I sort out the seat pad,  I can fit the entire interior if I take my time.  I will probably temper that and say I will take advice on the tricky bits like the instrument console where the curves are difficult and if you screw it up the job look like rubbish.

In any event I am a 95% happy camper.  Just got to keep pouring acid on the seat squab problem and I should get the result.

As a parting gesture I have left you with an example of what I got from my trade me purchase for your careful scrutiny and viewing pleasure.  See last pic

[Garry]

A good lesson for others that we have a “eBay and Vendor Experiences” section in the Forum and within lies both some good experiences and some bad experiences.

Those that don’t heed the advice, do so at their peril.  I think we have all been caught at some point. The big ones like engine rebuilds and interiors are almost critical to a good outcome and a penny saved is so often a pound lost

Garry

[Lg]

Thank you Dave and Andy. I am in process of assimilating all the information posted on this site. Reading and researching helps in better appreciating how one tackles, this enormous task. Its a credit to everyone contributing, that such a resource has evolved. I shall now continue reading, working out the sequence, of scheduling  work, and listing reliable suppiers, of parts etc etc. Being an accountant by trade, I need to get a handle on projected costs. The work that has gone into some of the completed projects, is an inspiration. I shall post photos of the Car, in its present state. At times its difficult to appreciate the task at hand, without seeking an opinion ...from people who have actually seen their projects through!

Has anyone out there prepared and documented a " Schedule of Works " ? I appreciate that each project is unique. Its clear, that for this Car to receive a sympathetic and quality restoration, will need as near a complete restoration as one can imagine. Reading for many hours the assesment of many of the posts ....I rank this Car at 3 to 3.5 out of 10, in terms of condition. My saving grace, is that it is RHD (for driving in England) ...its complete ...has every original part on it. Corrosion is evident behind the sills ..... and for not having been driven for 22 years, is a worry too, especially as to the work, the mechanical parts will require.

I am sure I am going to be a nuisance in checking with members as i proceed, for reassurance, and constructive criticism/support.

Lg

[andyburns]

Hi Lg,

I tried to put together something resembling a schedule of work when I first started.  Its quite humorous looking back it now realizing how naive I was.  With these cars in particular I have found it not the things that you can obviously see that need attention that cost the money, but things that lurk deeper that aren't so visible that end up catching your budget by surprise. 

Take for example what you may think is rust in the sill.  It could just be the easily removable over sill which is cheap as chips to replace.  But if you have to start pulling the structural sill panels apart its a whole different ball game.  Personally I wouldn't touch a car with structural rust as the complexity and cost levels would go bazerk.  I

Even the small things during the reassemble have caught me by surprise.  Small clips and fresh bits of rubber here and there all add up to quite a sum.  Also the ever rising price of parts has caught me out as well.  If I had know I could have saved a whole bunch by buying up a year ago.   

I think your better off just getting the car appraised to ensure its a good solid restoration base and then mentally put aside 30-50k and go for it.

Why dont you organize to get your car on a hoist and take a couple of hundred pictures of the underside.   Usually this aspect of the car is like the proverbial canary down the mine shaft and will give a good indication to the condition of the rest of the car.  It usually overlooked when crappy restorations are done.  The rest of the car might have a nice shiny coat of paint hiding a multitude of sins where the underside tells the real tale.

If you put up some decent photos here there are dozen of folk who can offer some very good advice.

[andyburns]

After a nice relaxing week off I managed to drag my lazy ass back into the garage today to get going again on the engine bay.

Spent all afternoon fitting up the hard brake lines that run along the firewall and under the booster.  A job that needed to be done before putting the booster back in.  Took quite a while to get all the pipes back into the same position as per the break down photos.  I am so glad I took pictures.  It would be impossible to commit to memory all the small details.

I knew the final fit up of the booster was going to be tricky.  It took a long time to pull it apart.  I ended up installing and pulling it out three times until I got the sequence right.   I would hate to have to work on this if the engine was in the car. 

Think I might put the steering column back in tomorrow.  I am not sure if it will get in the way with the interior refit but will risk having to haul it back out again if the gamble doesn't pay off.

[stickandrudderman]

Get yourself a copy of January's "Mercedes enthusiast"!

[andyburns]

Hey Stick,  whats in it.  An article on how frustrating 230sl brake boosters are?  To be honest I haven't bought a car magazine for years.  I have hundred in boxes I have kept from when I was a teenager back in the 80's.  Hope you had a great xmas.  Have you been working on any of your own projects in the break?

[andyburns]

I went to put my steering column in this morning and after a bit of reflection decided that it was a bad idea and way to early.  I also discovered another stupid cock up.  I had only put felt on one of the two air vents.  The one I hadn't finished, but installed in the dash, was now caught up behind the pedal set.  I didn't fancy pulling out everything I had done yesterday to gain access so decided to glue up the new felt in situ.  I sweet talked the wife who sat for 20 minutes upside down in the cabin pushing the vent as far through the dash as possible and quickly glued on the strips that I had cut a few weeks back which had been sitting in plain sight for me as reminder to finish the job.  I felt like a right plonker!  All in all it came up well though and sure was a better solution that pulling out the booster again.  Getting the dash sequence correct is critical.  If your not ready with all the bits and pieces either you will be delayed or, if your a little OCD like me, have to pull it all apart again when you start to loose sleep over the 'parts you didn't get right under the dash'.

The cat found the whole process quite humorous and at one stage took off with one of the strips of glued felt.  I dont know why but he has recently taken more than a passing interest in the resto and every time I open the garage door he makes his way in and sits by the bonnet.  Quite nice to have some company while you work.

[andyburns]

Another stuff up I made 6 months back was not covering all the factory earth points before I painted.  There were a couple under the dash and also in the engine bay.  Now with five coats of paint over them I had a fairly difficult job to keep it tidy and looking factory.  I decided that it was a smart move to practice under the dash first before moving on to the more visible engine bay equivalent.

It was also going to prevent me from getting the dash back together so made perfect sense to tackle before the steering column went back in further restricting access.  I decided to try to mask a round area and treat with paint stripper.  I knew I would have apply stripper several times to get through the paint layers.  Was a bit worried the stripper would get under the tape and not give a nice crisp edge. 

Was also terrified I would get the stripper on the dash or touch the outside of the car with it on my hands.  I decided not to wear gloves as a type of canary down the mineshaft approach.  I would much sooner get a chemical burn than not realize stripper was on my hand and touch an outer panel as I clambered out of the car.

All in all I got a good result and didn't have any nasty accidents.  Better safe than sorry.

 

[andyburns]

Now for the exciting part of the day....

Managed to get two of my instruments mounted up and finalized.  Starting to feel like I am making some progress.  To get the speedo in I think I first need to get the column back in as you need the access to get the ignition barrel back.   Realized that to do this I probably need a new chrome barrel surround and rubber as they have small tabs which seem to fold around the back of the dash sheet metal.  Can anyone let me know if these can be put in latter?

I also need two new bulbs.  As I have been installing I have been testing bits and pieces out including these.  I am contemplating going to LED light.  Has anyone had any experience with these.  I am a bit hesitant to move away from factory but know how hard these are to change when they blow.  I am also not certain how LED go in terms of the dimming mechanism. 

[mnahon]

There was a recent thread where 66andBlue mentioned he redid his instrument lights in LEDs:

http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=19084.0

[andyburns]

Anyone fitted up the Mexican seat pads to an early 230sl??

I was hoping to do them my self but now realize with the modification to my seat pads its probably best left to the experts.  I took the lower pad and my old seat down to an auto trim guy and they pointed out that the problem I will run into is that underneath the pads they have 'pockets' which slip over the frame.    He is a bit afraid the frame on the 280 is the same shape as the scolloped pad and the entire pocket will have to be cut off and reconstructed to make it work.   If there is an easy and tried and tested way of doing it I would appreciate the advice to avoid any monumental cock ups.

If any of you have had any experience with it I would love to here.  I am more than happy to take heaps of detailed photos as I go along for anyone else contemplating this.

[114015]

Andy!

A Happy New Year to you.
The last hours I have been reading your great story and I feel ashame of my own little skills in comparison to the really great work you have done so far to your car.
Your '64 will be turning out terrific.

As to your seat problem, yes you are right that the seat pad (rubberized hose hair) and narrow early style seat covers (used up to serial no. 002926) do not match. To my knowledge the early type seat pads 113 914 0014 are nowhere available; neither by the factory, nor from any aftermarket supplier (like GAHH).
As such we early-seat-owners have to live with compromises.

You have got several choices:

1) Go and convert to the "late style" (from VIN no. 002927 on), later pads & later covers. In this case the problems remains that the large spring frame of the seat cusion frame needs to be replaced as well because for the later seats it follows the scolloped area. 
Me personally I don't like that choice. 

2) Keep your old seat pads or get them repaired (if possible). Probably the best choice.

3) Try to rework the new pads with the scolloped area that it matches the old seat frame and old & new seat covers. This might be a hard job.

If you decide to follow 3) compare very well with each other the old and new pad. This will indicate to you where to go. The new pad is wider than the old one.
Therefore, not the area needs to be reworked and widened which you have indicated on your last picture but the area which is scolloped. This needs to be made narrower. Talk to your trim guy which about his thoughts on this.

(At least for one of my seat sets it appears as if I may keep the old pads ...)

Good luck & keep us informed,

Achim

[andyburns]

Hi Achim, Merry xmas and new years to you to mate. 

I pretty much had come up with the same three options as you pointed out.  Number 1 is out of the question in my mind as I really really want to keep it original and early.  I have also already purchased the early leather seat covers.

I am tending toward repairing mine, your option 2.  I am sure they can be padded out to rejuvenate them. 

I think the minute you have to lop off the pockets that actually hold the seat covers to the frame you will be subjecting yourself to all sorts of hurt!  I can imagine they supply all the lateral support and if are not present your pad would potentially move much more on the frame than it should.

The frustrating thing is that GAHH are more than happy to sell you these pads with but supply no general instruction on how to modify them to suit.  I have now sent two emails before xmas which have both gone unanswered.  I will give it a couple more weeks in case they are all on holiday still and follow up with them.   If they cant give me a reasonable description of how to do the job I will be sending them back.   Otherwise I am 500US down the gurgler.

Will let you guys know how I get on.  Yet another example of how nothing on these cars is straight forward!

[andyburns]

Spent this morning prepping for the steering column install.  Quite a bit more to this than I had anticipated.  I went back through all my photos and discovered quite a bit of felt was required between mating surfaces presumably to prevent creaking and rattles. 

Once I got this out the way I started reading up on how to get the shafts all centered correctly so the indicator cancellation cam will be in the correct place.  Still researching this.  Looks as if i will have to make up a tool to center the power steering box.  Also still need to research if I can install the chrome bezel that goes around the ignition barrel after the install. 

[andyburns]

More frustration tonight as I went to fit up my new manual gear shift repair kit.  All of the bushes were fine with the exception of the two front stays.  The other 10 were mint but I decided to order the entire kit to just get the two I needed.   All the bushes were a fantastic fit other than the two I actually needed.  I have no idea why they are much wider, see photo, but can only assume it may be yet another example of early 230 vs latter 250/280.   Anyone recognize what bush has been supplied and why its different to mine?

Moved onto the fresh air vent.  The new rubber was very loose and needed to be glued in place.  The rubber was genuine mercedes so I guess this is how its suppose to be.  Waiting for the next batch of gold plating for the brackets to bolt this up.

Before I get here I need to to sort out the cables properly as well.  The have all been re greased and are in place but I discovered I have lost one of the cir-clips which secures the heater vent cables.  Need to figure out where I can get some more.  Am hoping they are quite standard.  Anyone had any experience with these.  I tried to loot my donor W108 but it has different clips with a larger ID.

[mbzse]

.../.. it may be yet another example of early 230 vs latter 250/280.   Anyone recognize what bush has been supplied and why its different to mine?

Andy, The literature seems a bit cloudy, but in the early 230SL parts book 10 097 the end piece has No A111 260 0253 and the bushing No A111 992 0210  . The change over to those PartNumbers is at chassis no 4926.
The 250/280SL parts book 10 202 give end piece No as A111 260 0453 and bushing is A111 992 0410. I enclose a [borrowed] picture of the latter type end piece with bushing, you can see it is wider and the bushing type you acquired will fit there.
/Hans in Sweden

[andyburns]

Thanks Hans,  that makes sense.  This bush looks as if it gets most of the use of all the shift bushes,  and given the early ones are about 1/2 of the thickness would wear pretty quick.

Will go back to buds and see if they can help with either the early bushes or latter rod end.  Thanks for the info. 

[rutger kohler]

Hi Andy, Rodger here. The 'tool" you want to centre the poer steering unit is a bolt 8mm diameter x 1mm pitch sharpened on the end.  If you wait until Monday or Tuesday I can bring one over because i am at the stage of setting my own one up now.

Turning to the gearbox, assuming the gearstick it the same as the 280SL, If you haven't already replaced the two shaped plastic"washers" the secure the top and bottom of the ball on the gear stick I strongly suggest you do it now.  Mine had disintegrated when I bought my car and were fairly hard to replace with gearbox in car.

Finally I am painting all my power steering parts, assuming these are finshed in matt black too?

regards

Rodger

[andyburns]

Hi Rodger,  indeed I replaced those bushes.  The ones I took out were almost new but I decided to replace them all the same.  I am interested in if you lubricated the nylon/teflon before you installed.  I smeared some teflon grease over the ball before I put mine back together.  Not sure if its the right thing to do.

I also made one of those power steer centering tools when I put my W108 280se back together but have lost it in the abyss that is my garage.  I must confess I am a total pig and my garage is often in a pretty terrible state of affairs.  I am often totally embarrassed when showing friends through.  I sure makes it hard to find things! 

[andyburns]

Am having terrible troubles clamping down the clips located in compartment just below and in front of the windscreen which hold the two vent cables.  I even went and purchased a set of pliers with a 90 degree bend to see if I could get some good force to get the clip secured. 

I am wondering if the additional paint I have applied to tab has caused too much interference with the cable.  Perhaps I should try sanding off some of the paint?

Another peculiarity I observed when I pulled these cables out 8 months ago was that over top of the clip it appeared someone had smeared a really thick tar type product.  I am wondering if anyone else knows if this is factory or perhaps its the last owners attempts to resolve the issue I am experiencing getting the clip to home on the tab.

I am expecting if you guys haven't pulled these clips off that you will be rubbing your head with confusion over my explanation, but if you have pulled the cables you will more than likely have experienced the same niggly problem.

[114015]

Yes, Andy,

That's correct.
I found that same tar-type material on my clamps as well during disassembly. Especially around the rubber grommet but less on top of the clamp.


Maybe the factory applied that for better protection against incoming water into the clutter box or to better fix the cable, so that the outer part is tightly fixed and cannot move.

Just my guess ...

Achim

[andyburns]

STEERING SHAFT REFIT

Finally have managed to get this sorted after quite a bit of research.  A few little quirks for right hand drive confused the hell out of me.  My big blue book I have must be specifically for the LHD marked and discusses various reference marks being 180 degrees out for the RHD locations that I actually needed to know about. 

Specifically the LHD has the indicator stalk on the left side of the steering column and RHD's on the right.  The centering cam on a LHD sits centered at 270 degrees while RHD it should be 90.  There is a mark on very end of the steering column used to get this spot on.  The steering column shaft must be the same part for both LHD and RHD subsequently the LHD mark should point directly up to get the cancelling cam in the right position where the RHD vehicle I believe should point straight down. 

I havn't actually read this anywhere.  It not in the blue book and  I did a quick search on the forum this morning and couldn't find any reference so I am going off observation and common sense when making this statement.  If I have stuffed this up or got it right I would appreciate some feedback.  Rodger is doing a power steer conversion on his car so will also need to be aware of all this stuff.  At the bare minimum this should give you a good idea of what to photograph during the removal of your shaft/steering column.  I wasn't aware and subsequently have taken a disproportionate time feeding the column back into the car. 

Other than this issue the rest of the installation was quite simple.  The ignition barrel slipped back in with no problem.  I think attention to detail with cleaning all surfaces and a small smear of grease helped a lot.

Hopefully I have it right and the thing doesn't need to come out.....  if I have cocked it up feel more than welcome to poke fun at me 

Decided not to put the new indicator stalk back in to prevent any damage during the interior refurb.  It was tempting to have it in place for 'look' but cost so much I think its wise to play it safe and install last.

Really want to put my speedo back in now but I think I need access to get chrome bezel around the ignition barrel.  Anyone replaced this before. 

[Valvechatter]

Andy,
I know that I and many others have benefitted from your daily journal of restoration activities! I wonder, do you have a photo album (Flickr, Shutterfly or something similar) containing all of your images that can be accessed by others?

Thanks so much for sharing your progress and setbacks.

Lin