Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level  (Read 946828 times)

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #400 on: January 08, 2014, 18:50:39 »
Hi Lin,

I do have a flicr account www.flickr.com/andyburnsnz  but I have reserved this for the finished products.  I also have litterally thousands of high res photos of the 230 taking up a massive amount of disk space.  I dont think their are any free services that would accomodate the entire collection.  I could be wrong.   Also time is my enemy at the moment.  Working my normal job 8 hours a day and then trying to do 3-4 on the car I am quite spent and am struggling to even get the time to put up the pics on this site.  If you or anyone else request specific photos I am happy to go the extra mile though.  Just let me know.
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

getsmart

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #401 on: January 09, 2014, 00:20:51 »
Andy I'd love all the pics. I bought my pagoda as an unfinished already in a 1000 pieces project. I'll need all the references that I can get to get mine back together since I have no before pics. There's quite a few ways to share them but all take time so I recognize this. No easy answer unless you could find some time to purchase a usb memory stick (and I pay you for it or I buy one and send it to you) and dump them on that (pretty easy, cheap n quick) and send it to me and I'll work out where or how to share them. I'd need to know the size of memory stick needed though.... just a suggestion to make it easier for you...

Rgds, Joe

PS. there are also quite a few programs around that can quickly and easily reduce the size/resolution of pics...
http://www.snapfiles.com/freeware/gmm/fwgcomp.html
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 02:09:07 by getsmart »
Finding the red car
1964 230sl Restoration Project

Dave H

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #402 on: January 09, 2014, 17:15:57 »
Hi Andy
Your right about the small unseen detail and refurbishment that soaks up the time.
I've spent the past week refurbishing the under dash heater core, blower
And vent assembly's in readiness for the start of the rebuild.
The fibreglass bridging paste smoothed out with masking tape
Idea was fantastic for tidying up the tops of the papier mâché vents.
Also the tiny sneaky hidden grub screws that hold the rotary fans to the shaft
Took some finding ( think I need new specs ).
While its all still fresh in your mind it would be helpfull to write down
The rebuild sequence from a bare shell. ... It's been 18 month since
I stripped the car... I was gonna put loom in first then wiper assembly,
Heater core etc...etc...
When you finish under the dash cold you write down the sequence please.
Love your posts ...  Keep it comeing .
Dave




« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 17:20:22 by Dave H »
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #403 on: January 09, 2014, 19:13:28 »
Hi Dave,

The rebuild sequence from a bare shell definitley isn't a fixed checked list.   I have been working on all sorts of systems all over the car.  Its really good if you get frustrated with one part of the car to have another area to work on as a 'cool off' strategy.  I am the type of person that if I cant see progress, after spending the time,  I start to get really angry at the world!.

To be honest I am now just using gut feeling and common sense to figure stuff out.  ie stuff that is furtherest back under the dash first.  I have had to take some stuff out a couple of times but nothing major. 

Even under the dash you can probably put things back in dozens of different sequences.  Some are probably easier than others but in the big scheme it probably will only add a couple of hours on even if you pick a less preferred sequence. 

Just last night I installed the speedo, which I thought would be the easiest of the guages but as it turned out was actually the hardest with the least hand room.  After I had finished I stepped back and started asking myself 'what next'.  I looked at the top of the dash and noticed the two large holes that take the studs that come out of the wooden trim.  Playing the devils advocate I went over installing these in my head and then went and investigated the hand room left over after all the other stuff I had installed. 

Initially I freaked out a bit as looking up from the floor panel you could no longer even see the holes and certainly from that angle no get a hand in to tighten anything up.  I freaked out a bit as the thought of pulling all the guages out again wasn't a pleasing one.  Went away had a good cup of joe and came back with a cool head.   Looked at the problem again and discovered you can reach in through the radio cavity and get your hand up diagonally behind the guages just enough to touch the holes. 

I am sure it will be hard, everything is on this car, but still possible with a bit of patience.  I am not sure if the dash and wood needs to go on before the guages are installed to meet the 'optimum' install sequence.  I may never know if my hand contorsionist trick works to get the dash wood securing nuts back in place.  So even though I can give you the benifit of my experience it may not necessarily be an optimum solution.

Another tactic that I have employed to good effect is to categorize all my photos into sections each in thier own folder. Then I copied them all to my smart phone.  While I am actually under the dash I can pull it from my pocket and locate the related pictures really quickly.  I found that prior to employing this tactic no matter how much I studied the pictures the night before I missed heaps of small queues.  Worth its weight in gold.
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #404 on: January 11, 2014, 10:55:14 »
TAIL LIGHT REFURB - PART 1

Decided to have a break from the interior to day and concentrate on a job I knew would take all day.  The tail lights had been in my thoughts,  in a bad way, for quite some months.   When I took them off there were only two thumb screws on one side and a couple of nuts on the other holding the the metal bulb holder cans in place.  The previous owner had replaced both the left and right lens with brand new late model 280 amber units.  These must be somewhat different in profile as the studs that protrude through the body were not long enough to reach through the bulb holder cans. 

Previous owner had bent two of the bulb holders tabs just enough to take a couple of nuts.  The only solution was to replace the studs.  I sourced some stainless rods and went to work getting the lengths correct.  Quite a bit of trial and error went into this and I must admit I had to remake quite a few studs out of error.  Total time for this little chore ran to about 2-3 hours.

Next task was the one I was dreading.  The metal bulb holder can on both sides had a fair amount of rust.  I am guessing but am fairly sure that both are original with just the lens replaced.   

The original unit was bright zinc electroplated.  I took the units into my plater and he threw up his hands and didn't want to touch them as they had pressed plastic and quite a bit of solder.  He gave me the option of desoldering both units but still was a bit dubious of the clear plastic window.  I decided that as a replacement would cost me drug money to just not risk it and come up with an alternative solution.

I mulled on this solution until this morning when I took the bull by the horns.

To make matters worse when I was doing the initial inspection I discovered that one of the bulb holders was broken.  The entire leg that was rivitted to the case had broken off.  I saw the tills a ringing.  The Scottish side of me came out and I set about a cunning plan to save myself another 800US


Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #405 on: January 11, 2014, 11:05:49 »
TAIL LIGHT REFURB - PART 2

I tossed up if I should try and mig weld the arm back on but from experience knew that with old thin sheet metal welded to pot metal used to cast the bulb holder, I would probably end up with an atrocious mess. 

I decided to use an awesome product called Q Bond, which I may have mentioned previously.  Its got me out of so many holes.  Its a two part product where you sprinkle/shape a granular substance onto the surfaces you want to secure.  You then apply a bonding agent quite similar in smell and texture to superglue.  Instantly you get some kind of chemical reaction, complete with puffs of smoke, and the bond is made. 

Its incredibly strong.  The amount I used would probably hold 50kg's and more than likely is much stronger than the original two rivits holding it in place.  The only gotcha with this product is that the surfaces have to be absolutely clean or you may not get a strong result.  This meant I had to remove all the rust.  I did this with my mini bead blaster. Really handy for this sort of work.  At the same time I masked all the bakerlite and clear perspex and gave the rest of the unit a quick once over to prep it for paint.

Before I painted I gave all the bare metal a couple of coats of metal ready to give it just a bit more protection against rust.  Hopefully its enough!
 
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #406 on: January 11, 2014, 11:16:56 »
TAIL LIGHT REFURB - PART 3

Cleaned up all the rubber seals with a light wax and grease remover.  I am a bit scared of using heavy solvent on rubber in case it melts.   They came up ok and cosmetically look much brighter/newer than when I took them off.  Just a word of caution, the rubber around the metal bulb holder can is very delicate and is also glued on.  I needed to take my time and very carefully coax this off so it didnt break.

I used ados F2 to re glue the rubber.  Without it the cleaned up rubber just fell off and would have been a nightmare when it came time to screw the units up.

I gave the bulb holder cans three coats of a ceramic paint designed to coat brake calipers.  The color and sheen is quite close to the factory bright zinc.  I also figured that it going to be fairly durable if its designed to stand up to heat and the harsh elements associated with the braking system. 

Once that had cured I also blew on a light coat of 2k clear for good measure. 

Result... well its not as good as the original but still fairly happy to put it back on the car.  Also given the ridiculous costs of the tail light assemblies I feel all that more comfortable about my decisions. 

I think I will start on the head lights in the next couple of days.  Fingers crossed I dont find any nasty surprises. 
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

Larry & Norma

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #407 on: January 11, 2014, 11:33:44 »
Hi Andy,
Great project keep it coming.

With reference to your rear lights, your lens and bulb holder are incompatible, the
later lens has plastic bulb holder with the bulbs in slightly different positions to
align with the lens.
I guess if you can make it work it will save a heap of cash! ;D
Cheers
Larry Hall (Gnuface)
2023 Ioniq6
2005 C230
1970 280SL

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #408 on: January 11, 2014, 11:38:31 »
Hi Larry, you are spot on about the incompatible lens.  The last owner took a dremel to it and carved out larger apertures to get the bulbs through.  Once the unit is fitted into the car you cant tell the difference.  I would love to see a close up photo of what it should look like.  It the early 230 reflector metal rather than plastic?
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

Larry & Norma

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #409 on: January 11, 2014, 14:36:39 »
Hi Andy,
There is a good write up in the 'Technical Manual' with pictures.
I think all reflectors were plastic.

My 280 had the earlier tail lights fitted by a PO, a bit odd but with over 40years of history
many things happen!! I have now fitted the correct lights.
Larry Hall (Gnuface)
2023 Ioniq6
2005 C230
1970 280SL

Valvechatter

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #410 on: January 11, 2014, 21:13:42 »
Hey Andy,
I think your tailight work looks great and PRACTICAL. Nice job, and as always, thanks for sharing!
Lin

Garry

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #411 on: January 11, 2014, 21:48:26 »
Andy,

What you have are the early 230SL rear bulb holders and the 280SL lenses that are flat and don’t have the 1” centre strip through them.

Here is a photo of the two different rear bulb holders. The earlier ones are the metal larger ones.

The second pair of photos are of the lenses from the 230SL that are different to the latter lenses.

I believe you can still just buy the correct lenses that are not too expensive like the whole surround.
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #412 on: January 12, 2014, 06:37:03 »
Thanks Garry, Larry and Lin.  Appreciate the master class from you guys.  I have certainly been educated on the intricacies of 113 tail lights over the past 48 hours.  The journey continues.

I think I will just stick with what I have for the time being.   I can always swap these out latter on.  I think the cost of replacing the lens is one I can do without at the moment as I have the expensive engine tart up coming down on me hard at the moment.

I have come to a bit of a cross road and to progress the project have to decide on if the engine should come apart or not.  Even if I choose not to pull it down the cost will certainly still start to mount.

Pulled the engine out of storage last night and got as far to mount it back on the engine stand.  Stood and stared at it for almost an hour contemplating what is to come.  Hopefully whatever it is the stress gods will take pity and take it easy on me.

Couldn't resist it today and did a bit more work.  Was suppose to have the day off but had to wait for the wife to put on her makeup which was only suppose to take 10 minutes.  I knew better and got a good 90 minutes in on the car.

I fixed the boot lock which the previous customer had butchered after one of the stud snapped off.  Managed to coax out the remnants of the stud and put a new stainless model in.  Also fitted up all the stuff I did yesterday and the chrome strips strips which connect the boot lock to the lights. 

Had an issue right from day one with some of the beading on one side missing.   See photos.  I am now wondering if the beading came with the late model tail lights.  Any ideas?

Also anyone know where you can source the plastic thumb screw used secure the tail lights.  I only have four of them and need another four.

Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

rutger kohler

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #413 on: January 12, 2014, 07:07:39 »
Hi Andy, if all else fails I can machine you up some thumbscrews fairly easily if you supply the plastic rod. Also have you got a 32mm socket x i/2" drive I can borrow to check the pitman arm preload on my power steering box?

cheers

Rodger
1969 280 SL Manual gear shift
1972 280SE 3.5 auto

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #414 on: January 12, 2014, 07:26:11 »
I am sure I have Rodger.  Good as gold.  Drop around one day this week after 3 and pick them up.
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

66andBlue

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #415 on: January 12, 2014, 07:36:58 »
Andy,
a German member here ("Memmo") sells the thumb screws as a set of eight for 24 Euro but most likely sell you less.
http://www.pagode-markt.de/nachfertigungen/raendelmutter.html
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

getsmart

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #416 on: January 12, 2014, 09:21:25 »
I bought the new lenses that Garry mentions for around $230 AUD a year or so ago...perfect one for one replacement
Check mine on www.getsmartpagoda.tumblr.com..
I can post the supplier link if needed, he might be in the list on this forum...

Rgds, Joe
Finding the red car
1964 230sl Restoration Project

Garry

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #417 on: January 12, 2014, 10:02:16 »
ANdy,

No beading is used between the chrome from Tail Light to Boot lock.

Garry
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

mbzse

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #418 on: January 12, 2014, 10:17:42 »
Quote from: andyburns
.../... Had an issue right from day one with some of the beading on one side missing.   See photos.  I am now wondering if the beading came with the late model tail lights.  Any ideas?
Beading was introduced on late 280SL's. See reply #4 in this thread:
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=18452.msg128711#msg128711
/Hans in Sweden

.
/Hans S

Garry

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #419 on: January 12, 2014, 10:35:08 »
Just to clarify the tail light issue,

All tail lights had the same chrome surround and the linking chrome between the light surround and the boot lock. There was only a change in the lens and the rear bulb holder. As yours is a 230SL there should be no beading behind the horizontal chrome strips.
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

Essell

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #420 on: January 12, 2014, 18:11:02 »
Garry

I am a little confused...........your lower photo of the rear 230 lights has amber for the turn signal. I was under the impression that the change to amber came later...........early 1969? Our 230 has the serial #17617 has the amber lights for turn signal, which I thought the previous owner had installed. Can you clairify this for me?
Essell

paults1

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #421 on: January 12, 2014, 18:33:50 »
Go to the Technical Manual & you will see that certain countries had different tail light styles. My early '63 230SL came from Italy & has that country's correct tail lights with the amber on the outside corners.

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #422 on: January 12, 2014, 19:05:43 »
Thanks for all the advice guys.  I will eventually get the correct lens.  Looks like the lens that I need are NLA and aftermarket is the only way forward.  I do have an almost brand new set of late model 280 lens if anyone has the old type and want to swap.

Thanks for all the advice on the beading as well.  That was all very useful.  Garry the only comment I would make is that I am almost certain that my boot lock is original as it matches the keys.  Could have rekeyed or the barrel changed I suppose but given the patinia on it it seem very old.  It came with a mercedes OEM gasget that sits behind it.  Who knows?  At the end of the day if it all bolts up and looks great I dont really care too much.

Just warms the cockles of my heart seeing the thing slowly going back together.  I have set a goal for myself to install at least one part per day until its all back together.  In the warm New Zealand summer its easy to come home from work and elect to open a cold can of beer instead!
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

Garry

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #423 on: January 12, 2014, 20:53:04 »
It would be unusual if the boot lock were not original, usually only the barrel is changed over.  For interest, it is quite easy to change over the lenses. There is a bit of a write up in the Tech Manual on how to do it.  Getting the original early tail lights complete is like winning the lottery,  I got one and had to put together the second, both mine had breaks in them.

Welcome to full membership, you will be able to go through the “Linkage Tour” to get that engine properly set up, an absolutely invaluable tool and without it most never get their cars running set up correctly.

Will send you a welcomes letter and a window stickers for fitting when you finally get there.
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
2005 MB A200
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Electric
2024 Volvo EX30 Electric

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #424 on: January 12, 2014, 21:02:03 »
Cheers Garry,  as promised   ;D
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car