Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level (Read 942095 times)

andyburns · « **Reply #725 on:** April 13, 2014, 06:12:40 »

Decided while my soft top hatch is off the car to finish off the trimming of the hatch. When I pulled it apart I am sure it was original having a 3mm tar sound proofing on the floor of the hatch. This was covered with a very very thin plastic material impregnated with a leather like grain. Up the font wall of the hatch was a strip of vinyl. I am not sure that this was original as it had a different grain and texture to the material on the floor.

In any event I have tried to replicate as closely as possible what I removed several months ago.

I used the same anti drum bitumen based product as I used on the cabin floor. Its a German product and as such is manufactured to a high standard. Other stuff I have used in the past doesn't have the adhesion that this stuff does and often peels off 8 months latter.

When I pulled all the gear out of the car I carefully saved the vinyl material in hope of reusing it. I pulled it out of the shed and spent a couple of hours cleaning it. After an hour of deliberation I made the call that it was too tatty and worn to put back in. It had several small tears and creases in it that I couldn't get out. The decision was made to use the remainder of the leather hide in its place. Even after I cut all the bits out I still have enough to finish off the hard top. If I dont use it it will probably sit in the garage unused for the next 20 years.

andyburns · « **Reply #726 on:** April 13, 2014, 06:14:22 »

After I finished I stood back and now feel I have done the right thing. It looks really smart.

andyburns · « **Reply #727 on:** April 14, 2014, 06:24:23 »

I ended up taking a pluck on an online auction for 4 new white walls. Won the auction and picked them up from a small town called Hamilton which was an hours drive each way.
Had them mounted up and balanced on the W108 restored rims. Couldn't resist a trial fit up when I got home to see what they would look like. Tickled pink! To my eye they look right. The 195/70's I pulled off just looked to small under the arches.

andyburns · « **Reply #728 on:** April 18, 2014, 08:33:19 »

Decided today to attack my kinder seats. I had previously stitched up the covers and just needed to fit them. Still quite a time consuming job to get half decent if your inexperienced. All in all it took me about 3-4 hours for both of them. I am reasonably happy with the result. Again no where near perfect with a few DIY imperfections, but I think that is what is going to make this car a little unique when finished.

I discovered after I started stretching the material up that one of the pieces I had cut had a 'from the cow' imperfection. I think it might have be a snag on a some barb wire of the like. You can actually make out where the wound has healed. I could haul it off and start again with some fresh leather but its just not bad enough to warrant it. If it was a concourse level car then maybe.

Also some of the edges I sewed up sit up a little to proud for my liking. I have seen this on other leather installation and wonder if its just an idiosyncrasy of leather given its considerably thicker and less pliable than vinyl.

Glad I went the extra mile and got the stainless staples. Piece of mind is a wonderful thing. Didn't need any glue on these which made for quite a pain free installation.

At least its a bit of progress for the week. With my latest contract all but over I can now get my head back and really crack on with the interior. Latter this week I will pick up the chrome plating and gold and zinc plating and get on with the seat reassembly. Also just purchased 4 liters of Ados F38 ready for gluing the carpet down.

rutger kohler · « **Reply #729 on:** April 18, 2014, 22:43:14 »

Hi Andy, kinder seat looks great. I see you're getting ready to glue your carpet down, I seem to remember quite a bit of discussion on an earlier post which suggested not gluing the bit that fits over the driveshaft hump and goes up to the firewall. I didn't glue mine, nor the ones for the drivers and passengers feet.

andyburns · « **Reply #730 on:** April 19, 2014, 06:15:00 »

Hi Rodger. Take it your having a great time over in Auz land! Make sure you have a nice cold beer for me. I here what you are saying about the tunnel carpet. Strangely enough I was just pondering the same topic this afternoon. I was thinking to myself that future access to the gearbox inspection hatch and gear shift mechanisms would be a nightmare if everything was glued. Carpet that has been glued down is very hard to pull up without damaging it. The woolen loops get pulled backwards through the weave of the carpet and tend to stay with the car! This happened a lot when I pulled out the old set.

I decided today to finish off all the final satin paint in the interior. Before anyone points out the obvious I know I should have done this ages ago and it doesn't make sense to be doing it now! I paid the price and had to spend ages masking to prevent any over spray on the shiny new dash and leather.

Of course before I started I stripped back out as much as I could to avoid over spray.

Sanded back the shiny clear coated surfaces with a scotch pads to get the satin to adhere. Then prior to bringing the spray gun anywhere near the car I set it up outside to get it working off the least pressure to avoid as much overs spray as possible. Blew three coats over all the required areas and decided at the same time to paint the 3 inches of the sill visible under the over sill. This will allow me to get on and screw the overs sill in place this week and have a clear run at all the internal surfaces that require glue.

I also went and purchased the cheapest, nastiest spray gun from our local super cheap auto. Am going to use this to spray the F38 onto the carpets. I sacrificed a little bit of glue this afternoon to test the gun and it worked beautifully. So ready to rock and roll early next week.

andyburns · « **Reply #731 on:** April 20, 2014, 07:57:34 »

Yesterday a friend of mine turned up in his 230sl. Pleasant surprise and after a quck cup of coffee he had a look at my progress and then offered to take me for a spin in his car. Was a wonderful distraction and with some fantastic top down weather we set off for a 30 minute jaunt down some beautiful country lanes.

It really gave me a boost and after sitting down for some dinner I put some plans down to have a huge day on the car with the final carpet fit firmly in my cross hairs.

Woke up this morning with a spring in my step and launched into task.

I started by carefully working out which pieces needed trimming. The set was no where near perfect and at least half the parts needed alteration. I marked what I thought needed to be done and decided to wait for cutting as each piece went in to prevent any mistakes. Once you have cut too short there is no going back.

The spray gun is an absolute must as it takes an age to spread the glue across the textured carpet. F38 in 18 degree temp will go off in a matter of minutes so it needs to be applied very quickly to give you wriggle time when fitting it in the car. Some of the larger pieces are difficult to handle and you need to come up with an 'install plan' prior to gluing.

Another good thing to do is get all the correct carpet overlaps clear in your mind. Its easy to get it wrong. I referred to a few pictures on the internet, downloaded them to my phone and reviewed at least four or five times.

andyburns · « **Reply #732 on:** April 20, 2014, 08:14:06 »

When I got half way through the carpet set I realized that I hadn't yet pumped all the 3M cavity was through the sills. A bit of a downer but I just put down what I was doing and reformulated a plan to get it done as quickly as possible. First pulled my cavity was gun out of storage and measure up the tube wall thickness at 10mm. Decided to drill 13mm holes in the side of the sill to gain access. Chose locations to give me access to as much of the sill as possible. I think I will drill some more holes in the rails underneath the boot to finish off. Can do this latter before I put back in the fuel tank.

I had two one liter wax cartridges and I ended up using both of them. As well as the sills I also did all four cross members sections that run one side of the car to the other. These all had factory holes so no drilling was required. I am interested to know if the factory used these holes to blow an equivalent substance.

Quite a messy job and one I should have also done when the shell was bare. You wouldn't want this stuff all over the carpets as it would be very very difficult to clean. I used three or four drop sheets which was a really good call as the gun was leaking like a sieve soaking through at least two layers of the drop sheets.

Spent a good hour degreasing the mess before progressing with the carpet fit. Wax and glue dont mix.

Found some perfect little rubber low profile plugs to close up the holes I drilled. Gave each hole a good coat of POR15 paint to cover up any exposed metal edges. I think I have covered the rust issues as well as I can. The sills now each have one can off Brunox, an epoxy paint and rust killer/inhibitor, and then 6 months latter 3/4 of a liter of cavity wax. Again good piece of mind even if it is overkill.

After a good 3 hour rust inhibiting stint it was back to carpet.

andyburns · « **Reply #733 on:** April 20, 2014, 08:25:38 »

Another couple of hours saw the final bit of carpet glued in place. I decided not to glue the main tunnel carpet. None of the floor mats are glued either but just sit loose.

I still need to cut down the drivers carpet and get the edges bound up which will be a job for another day. I don't know if I will try and do the sewing yet. Will try a test piece with one of the off cuts and make my mind up. Might end up being too much for my old 40 year old domestic barnina to cope with. She did bloody well with the leather but carpet may be a bridge too far. Stay tuned.

I am really happy with the result. Very satisfying part of the project to see the cabin come together before your eyes.

Valvechatter · « **Reply #734 on:** April 20, 2014, 12:02:44 »

Really looking handsome, Andy. Great work!!

Lin

kampala · « **Reply #735 on:** April 20, 2014, 17:05:34 »

Andy,

We know your car better than ours ... really nice to get the details and see the progress.

What are your plans for the motor and tranny? I believe you may have mentioned that the car ran fine when you started your restoration? So maybe you will just be cleaning them up and installing ... but somehow I doubt it.

Keep it up ...

andyburns · « **Reply #736 on:** April 20, 2014, 18:35:36 »

Thanks guys, its nice to know you get some pleasure out of reading about mundane detail and my efforts aren't in vain. Kampala, I have constantly been contemplating the engine, obsessively over the past 6 months in fact.

The guy I purchased the car from claimed that the engine was extensively rebuilt in the mid 90's at a cost of 7,000. Since then the car has only traveled 2000 miles. I have no reason to doubt it as it ran so beautifully when I got it and the figure of 7000 seemed an accurate number in terms of a full rebuild all those years back.

The dilemma I have is the leaking seals and what to do with them. If it wern't for the rear seal I would definitely not be considering pulling the entire thing down for a recheck.

Another aspect is the whole cosmetic. It really hard to get it looking just right when its all together. I would love to pull the head right down and bead blast. Also thinking about all the nuts and bolts not getting the plating. Can look a bit manky. But on the other hand half this detail is tucked down deep in the engine bay and is never seen.

It just does my head in trying to make a decision.

andyburns · « **Reply #737 on:** April 23, 2014, 10:14:37 »

Speaker Install 1

My speakers turned up in the post this morning so I decided to take the day and get them installed. I knew that my plans to mount the tweeters stealth style in the main air vents would consume a good deal of time. My gut didn't let me down. I had to pretty well pull apart the entire dash again to get to the vents. Had to be done as unless you want heinous looking modern kit in your classic car you have very few mounting options.

I started by making up a couple of brackets to mount the tweeter on to give me the angles I was after. I looked at gluing the brackets but decided eventually to drill a couple of small holes and use self tapping pk screw to secure everything. I think in hindsight it was a good way to go. A bit more work as the entire vent had to come out of the car to get drill access.

andyburns · « **Reply #738 on:** April 23, 2014, 10:18:57 »

Speaker Install 2

Will work tomorrow on the main drivers tomorrow. Need to do more leather work on the kick panels which will take an hour or two. I have put most of the dash back but have a few bits and pieces to tidy up. One step forward two backwards. Getting used to it.

andyburns · « **Reply #739 on:** April 24, 2014, 06:19:38 »

Speaker Install 3

Tackled the main drivers install into the kick panels today. Got out of bed and sorted out stripping the kick panels of the manky old covering. Then made quick work of putting the new leather on.

The install itself was far from easy. Very very sore back tonight after spending quite some hours on my side in the foot well. All sorts of niggles that added up to an entire day. I am sure I will feel much more positive about it when its all hooked up and belting out some of my favorite tunes.

andyburns · « **Reply #740 on:** April 24, 2014, 06:25:43 »

Speaker Install 4

The drivers side was an absolute nightmare. The pedals and accelerator pedal were right in the way of all the holes that needed to be drilled. A very useful technique is to use the metal surface mount right inside the plastic flush mount ring. Mounting up these first and then bolting the speaker to the metal ring is much easier to get right. The speaker is very heavy and hard to hold in place. Getting the mounting all aligned without the speaker is the way to go.

andyburns · « **Reply #741 on:** April 25, 2014, 04:39:54 »

Advice needed. Am up to refitting all the threshold rubber mats and ali garnish trim. The all needs to be bolted in before I finalize the carpet. Carpet edges lap into a channel in the inner molding.

I have to make a decision about what to do with the original moldings I took off. My options are as follows:

1) Clean up what I have and put them back in
2) Get new ones at over 1000US by the time I have paid freight, duty and gst.
3) Try and refurbish what I have.

I have only one piece with a slight dent in. The drivers inner piece. Its really not bad and other than this the part is almost new. The passengers inner is almost new and only bears a couple of small scratches. This is the only piece I am happy to put back in untouched.

The two outer pieces are both badly scratched. None of the scratches are that deep so I am thinking as long as I can get a similar finish I will have a crack at refurbishing them.

I spent yesterday talking to a few metal polishers who put me on to a crowd who does anodizing. I can get all four stripped, polished and re-anodized for 250NZD which is less than 1/4 the cost of new ones.

The issue is that nothing is guaranteed and there are risks involved. I was warned that some old ali when processed can pit quite badly. Also the risk of over polishing the thin ali making it very weak is ever present.

I am really interested in if any of you guys have ever faced the same issues and how you solved it. I have listed a whole swag of my W108 parts on our local version of Ebay today so if I get a few sales perhaps I will take the easy path and just buy some new ones. Whenever I do this I feel as if I am cheating if the part can be brought back to life. Its been my restoration ethos since I started the project and I have only let myself down on a few occasions. I really don't want to end up feeling as if I am a cheque book restorer.

hkollan · « **Reply #742 on:** April 25, 2014, 07:09:42 »

Andy,

It would be interesting to learn have the refurbished alu trim turns out.

I myself have gotten new ones, both originals from MB and repro parts from SLS.
As far as I can tell, The repros look identical to the originals, and even the repros fit was good with the screwholes lining up perfectly etc.
Some say the repros come from the same source as the originals, I think that might be true.
The full set of all four pieces is 390 euros from SLS, deduct 19% vat from that and your net export price will be
about 315 euros.

Originally the carpet that fits into the inner piece is not glued on to it, its just tucked into that part of the alutrim, so you could replace these moldings later without risking damaging the carpet.

Hans

andyburns · « **Reply #743 on:** April 25, 2014, 07:37:44 »

Thanks Hans, my carpets that I took out were firmly glued to the molding and tore when I took the molding out. I think that you are correct and am not going to make the same mistake. I still need to trim up my carpet as its currently too wide by about 10mm. You guys have it easy with parts. Being so geographically isolated down here in New Zealand we get absolutley hammered when it comes to shipping. With long parts its often not economical. I remember trying to ship a sill for my 2002 from the UK a few years back. The sill was 250 pounds and the shipping was about 450. They offered to cut it in half which would have reduced the price by a half.

My shipment from buds in the states cost around 1000 US which was around 15% the cost of the product. Just the cost of living down under!

andyburns · « **Reply #744 on:** April 25, 2014, 09:02:50 »

Bonnet Badge Resto 1

While I am at the restoration of the threshold rails I thought I may as well have a crack at the hood badge. New correct ones are ridiculous money. I have seen some sell for over 300US and even second hand ones run at around 200US plus. Just dont see the value myself for such a small item.

Mine came to me in a bit of a beat up condition. Most of the white paint in the star was missing and someone had punched the threaded stud from behind leaving the front pushed out and slightly distorted. Related to this damage some of the blue ceramic has been knocked off around the lettering.

I can put back the white paint with a little effort and know I can get it back to looking very close to factory. But the blue ceramic worries me a little. I dont think I am going to get a matching paint.

The damage to a aluminum is probably not recoverable but isn't that significant so think I might just live with it.

Jonny B · « **Reply #745 on:** April 25, 2014, 14:47:18 »

Is there a local artists gallery/collective with someone that works in this type of stuff? Perhaps they could suggest an approach. Or a type of repair.

Here is a list of links from a post by M Salemi

http://www.emblemagic.com/index.html
http://www.maxwellenamels.com/FAQs.html
http://www.hiberniaautorestorers.com/cloisonne-medallions.html
http://stores.ebay.com/Conway-Collectibles?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 Yes, he claims to do restoration
http://www.classicautoservice.com/emblems.htm

andyburns · « **Reply #746 on:** April 25, 2014, 15:19:34 »

Hi Jonny, sounds like a cunning plan for the ceramic side of things. I just need a bit of a tip to be able to recreate the almost pearl blue material. The rest of it should be a walk in the park.

Another related topic I was wanting to bring up with you guys is how do you all feel about trusting external companies with your precious car parts. To be honest with you its a bit of a struggle for me after a few bad experiences with damage and complete loss of parts.

We all know how much things cost but when your doing a restore it also mean delays as well while you source new parts.

At the moment I have my seats apart and at three different tradesmen. The chrome platers, the gold and zinc plating crowd and an auto upholsterer who is fixing up the terrible fitment of the early 230 seat debacle. The seats have been apart and away for months and its now starting to make me feel very uneasy. Every day that goes past is just increasing the risk its reassembly wont be so smooth.

If anyone of these guys gets things wrong I am in a world of hurt. Spare parts for seats don't come cheap or easy. I don't actually know what I would do if any were lost of damaged.

I kind of try and 'guard' all my bits an pieces and dont let them leave the property if possible. That way I am the only one to blame if things go wrong.

Also I have found that no one loves your car as much as you do. This also translates into the attention to detail and due care and responsibility taken when stripping parts or making a repair. Obviously sometimes skill, knowledge and capability comes into it and you have to bite your pride to get the result but often with a bit of thought, care and research this can be avoided. This is where the satisfaction in what I am doing with this restoration comes from for me.

Even restoring the most mundane of things back to an 'acceptable level', such as small as this emblem or putting new leather on the steering hood button, are up there with my most satisfying achievements on the build.

Tomnistuff · « **Reply #747 on:** April 25, 2014, 20:39:55 »

Hi Andy,

I restored a Ferrari hood badge using enamel paint that I mixed to the exact yellow color. It was available in those six or eight little square bottles that come in a model maker's paint kit at the hobby shop for just a few dollars. I bought mine at a dollar store. I just filled in the recesses by dipping the head of a toothpick in the paint and when it was level with the metal surrounding it, I let it dry. I may have sanded it even with fine sandpaper. It's not rocket science but it was satisfying to save $100 with only a couple of hours work.

I nickel plated the badge as well, with a kit that I found on the internet and keep around for when something needs nickel plating. In the states it's sold by Caswell Plating.

Here's a photo of before (left) on a white background and after (right) installed into the hood recess of the Ferrari. After cleaning, the tarnished silver plate really came out OK and the paint color came out perfect. I'm sure that you can, with all the primary colors, mix up the blue perfectly. The white is already pure in the bottle.

For my Pagoda, I bit the bullet and bought a new one.

Good luck.

Tom Kizer
Quebec, Canada

andyburns · « **Reply #748 on:** April 26, 2014, 09:31:56 »

Cheers for the info Tom. I have used the same technique as you have described to sort out the white paint in the star. I painted it with 2k automotive paint and buffed it back this morning. That part looks great. It now the blue stuff that will cause me grief. It has a certain opaque look about it that will be hard to replicate. I have been experimenting with mixing paint and clear epoxy resin today. Dont think it will work. Will just sleep on it and just keep on plugging away with new ideas. I did gently tease out the indent caused by the last owner cranking on the fixing nut too hard. This is much flatter than it was but did also flatten off the pattern on the face of the badge. Not ideal but less noticeable than the crater it has replaced.

Moved onto the threshold rails this afternoon. Took on board all the advice I have been given in here and decide to run with the suggestion of not gluing the carpet to the rails so I can replace them at a latter stage if I happen to somehow cultivate some sort of miraculous money tree in the back yard. This no glue technique worked out brilliantly and I now also agree it was almost certainly suppose to be like this from the factory. Just doesn't make sense using glue given the result would be just as good without it.

The trick here is to make sure the carpet is exactly the correct length and laps into the recess on the molding as far as possible. I just took my time and trimmed the edge of the carpet a couple of inches at a time making sure it wasn't too short at any point. Cutting to short would certainly bring on a string of expletives and should be avoided at all costs.

I spent a couple of hours cleaning and lightly polishing the moldings. Made a big difference. Decided to run with what I have and replace or repair on the one badly scratched unit. At least now I am confident that I can pull them all off for replacement at a latter stage without too much drama.

andyburns · « **Reply #749 on:** April 26, 2014, 20:31:16 »

Has anyone had any experience with making the windlace that edges the door opening. GAHH could not supply it to me and instead just sold me the leather to create it myself. I didn't think it was an issue until I started trying to find a source of the round foam insert. I have been to two upholstery suppliers now and both have told me I will be lucky to find it.

I have the original ones which are not in bad condition but are the wrong color. I could repaint them as they are vinyl but I would prefer to get the job right and construct ones in matching black leather. I have though about pulling apart the old ones and reusing the foam but sections of it clearly have deteriorated and the foam has collapsed. I would also like to retain them as templates for the refit.

Any of you guys had experience with manufacturing these from scratch.

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Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level (Read 942095 times)

Valvechatter