Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level (Read 942090 times)

jameshoward · « **Reply #875 on:** May 29, 2014, 13:03:42 »

Equally off topic, the 40,000th viewer of this thread was me!

(But in order to preserve my right privacy, I demand that this information be classified immediately).

andyburns · « **Reply #876 on:** May 29, 2014, 19:46:26 »

James, I cant do anything about your post being removed. You are going to have to fill out a Sl113 in triplicate, pay Peter E a 35 euro processing fee and wait ten days like the rest of us. More than likely he will have to take it to the board for a vote. Get with the programme.

andyburns · « **Reply #877 on:** May 31, 2014, 07:16:16 »

I have been working with Rodger on the refit of the rear axle bearings. We have have a bit of a puzzle on our hands. The width of the bearing is less than the width of the surface on it runs on on the axle. How do you know exactly where on the axle the bearing should run.

We can see from the wear marks on the axle where it has been running. The position has us a bit flummoxed as it would seem that there is reasonable gap between the bearing surface and the stepped washer the grooved nut locks up against. We cannot understand why there would be a gap between the two.

Given that the grooved nut has a tightening torque of 200Nm I am at a loss to understand what this force is actually clamping. Is it up against the end of the thread travel?

Can anyone shed some light here. I will be back on the BBB to see if there are any clues as well.

Rodolfo · « **Reply #878 on:** May 31, 2014, 16:34:40 »

Andy,

as a matter a fact I did this job just today. First make sure on the right axle you use the self alining bearing and on the left axle the standard bearing.

But there is another easy fix to do. The ring between the nut and the bearing is a bit too small inside. That way it stops to early before touching the bearing. So the inner diameter should be made app. 0,2 mm bigger. Do not do away the flat zone, since that keeps the ring from turning. But you should make the ring slightly bigger inside and then it will go all the way to the bearing and the nut can follow.

Another question: for a problem I have, I see you have an 230 sl as well. How many teeth has the spline of your right axle: 25 or 27 ? and what is the outside diameter app. there? And is there a partnumber somewhere on that axle?

best regards, Rudy

Tomnistuff · « **Reply #879 on:** May 31, 2014, 17:25:14 »

Hi Andy,
Something looks fishy in your photo. All the BBB cross-sections show that the shaft journal is shorter than the inner race of the bearing, although all the bearings shown in the BBB are left axle shaft bearings. The BBB does not show a cutaway of the right axle shaft bearing. Your bearing is obviously the correct bearing because I can see that the spherical rollers are cocked in your photo, making them visible from an edge view. If you look at the closeup photo that I posted in reply 841 on page 34, you can see that the shaft bearing journal does not protrude beyond the inner race as yours does. That bearing puller that I show had not yet moved the bearing on the shaft. The flatted "inner race clamping washer/nut locking plate" in intended to clamp the inner race only to keep it from spinning when the nut is tightened. The bearing must be seated firmly against the end of the journal. Your confusion is logical. It looks to me as if your axle shaft is not correct. It certainly does not look like those in the BBB or the one in my 67 230SL. If your bearing was not seated because the clamping washer and nut could not be tightened against the bearing inner race, that would explain also why there are wear marks on the journal. I would think that the inner race has been rotating relative to the shaft. A definite no-no. On the other hand, that would permit the axle shaft to plunge in and out by the length of that gap that you identified. The axle position would be maintained only by the "press fit" of the inner race on the shaft. Scary. Maybe the axle shaft has been changed in the past? Maybe it's time for an expert Mercedes mechanic to provide an opinion to end my speculation and your worries. Joe Alexander? Dan Caron? Anybody else who would know?

Tom Kizer

rutger kohler · « **Reply #880 on:** May 31, 2014, 20:24:05 »

Hi Tom, if i can step in here, we agree the axle journal shouldn't protrude beyond the bearing, however when I went back to your post 841 (neat puller by the way) respectfully, I think I can see the axle journal protruding a good 3mm beyond the bearing on your photo too? I have attached a photo pf the LH axle after I pulled the bearing off that and you can see that that the axle journal is at least 3mm longer than the deep row bearing here too. The bearing was certainly not loose on the axle journal, and the replacement bearing Andy bought is the same width. Easing the inner diameter of the lock washer as Rodolfo suggests is good but only takes up about 1mm. Your call for some the the site experts to comment is approriate.

cheers

Rodger

Rodolfo · « **Reply #881 on:** May 31, 2014, 20:32:18 »

Adjusting the ring inside diameter for about 0,2 mm will solve it, since I did exactly the same this afternoon on my 230 sl. For sure: the ring gets stuck otherwise on the thread. After adjusting it will slide much further. And the nut will follow then.

Rudy

andyburns · « **Reply #882 on:** May 31, 2014, 20:56:34 »

Hey guys thanks for all the info on this. We certainly have a few angles of attack now. I still am struggling to understand what the bolt torques up against. Is it the bearing or the slight shoulder on the axle. See photo.

Rudy if you axle is still out of the car is there any way you can accurately measure the width of the journal in question. I would like to eliminate Toms suggestion that it may be the wrong shaft. Thanks for that suggestion Tom I will be scouring the shaft today for part numbers.

In any event this particular topic doesn't appear to have been discussed in here before. I think its worthy of further investigation and explanation and will most definitely benefit anyone else who encounters the same issue.

Rodolfo · « **Reply #883 on:** May 31, 2014, 21:38:26 »

You really should make the rings inside diameter slightly bigger, then it will go against the bearing and the nut will follow.A try would do no harm,isn't?

andyburns · « **Reply #884 on:** May 31, 2014, 21:47:00 »

Hey Rudy, I think we will do that today and take another look. I think I will also try without the locking tab and tighten the nut up by hand and observe.

The part number on the shaft in question is 1103571501

I almost had a heart attack when I googled it as it would seem you couldn't secure a new one for any less than about 2000 US.

I couldn't see any reference to this part being from a 113 let alone an SL. Is the left and right hand shaft the same part? I just dunno. Above my pay scale. Perhaps someone with access to EPC might be able to tell.

I am open to be told that I have the wrong parts even if it means gouging out my left kidney to pay for it. Guess I am just in it head deep now and just want to put my baby back together the way her creators intended.

Rodolfo · « **Reply #885 on:** May 31, 2014, 22:15:53 »

How many teeth has the spline of the axle: 25 or 27 ?

andyburns · « **Reply #886 on:** May 31, 2014, 22:25:43 »

Rudy,

Logically I have ruled out the teeth on the spline issue. Feel free to correct me if my logic is wrong here but I have identified that the diff I have now was the one shipped from the factory as the numbers all match. So if this is the case wouldn't it be an impossibility to fit a shaft with the incorrect number of teeth on the spine. The only way that this could occur is if someone has also swapped out the mating sleeve in the diff?

I will when I get my sorry ass out of bed go and do the count. I only have the left axle at the moment. Rodger has my right one as he is looking at the bearing issue.

Rodolfo · « **Reply #887 on:** May 31, 2014, 22:32:36 »

Andy, I understand.But it is for information I need,see my problem in :problems with refurbishing rear axle and swapping from 4,08 to 3.25.It is a coincidence we are at the same parts busy. I have a new slider which doesn' t fit my axle.Now I don't know what is correct .We are helping each other ;-)

DaveB · « **Reply #888 on:** June 01, 2014, 00:01:28 »

The parts book edition B of Nov 1964 has the axles as 110 357 11 01 (left) and 110 357 12 01 (right).

Tomnistuff · « **Reply #889 on:** June 01, 2014, 00:27:59 »

1103571501 is apparently for a W113 axle also but starts at 042-010453.

Here is the Chiltons cross section drawing showing the relationship among the shaft journal, bearing, clamping washer and nut. I made it as high resolution as I thought it needed to be. It's the left axle however. The right axle isn't shown in the BBB either. This is really an excerpted BBB sketch.

Tom Kizer

Rodolfo · « **Reply #890 on:** June 01, 2014, 04:25:39 »

You can see on the on the drawing that the secret sits in getting the ring further on.So make it a bit bigger inside.Wish I found my problem with the refurbishing of 4.08 to 3.25 as well.:-(

andyburns · « **Reply #891 on:** June 01, 2014, 05:15:49 »

Hey Rudy,

Have had an interesting day. Your comments were right on the ball. We have had a little confusion over the slotted nut. The car came with a brand new nut and new locking tab which I supplied Rodger with. He has discovered the profile is slightly different to the nut that came off and does not have the same depth of relief cut into it allowing it to slip over the journal. One bit of confusion I generated out the way. Good spotting Rodger.

Even with this aside and working with the old nut Rodger has made some accurate measurements and has determined that once the nut is done up hand tight with the lock washer on the bridging gap is 2mm less the the thickness of the bearing. So we can tighten up against the bearing as you would expect.

However I still think 2mm is a tiny amount of thread to work with and if things went wrong you might not know if you were torquing the nut against the bearing or the shoulder. Guess you could always put in a second washer if required.

Thanks for everyone's help on this. I certainly have appreciated the support.

Also just discovered today that I need another backing plate at the grease seal cavity is out of round and has had previous poor attempts at repair. New plates are only 120 dollars which surprised me as it quite a sizable and heavy component. Just have to sit around and wait for one now. Was really looking forward to putting everything back together this week.

Rudy, took a picture of the spine for you as well. I started to count them but got dizzy so will leave this for you. I quite like the photo though.

Rodolfo · « **Reply #892 on:** June 01, 2014, 05:28:17 »

Don't use two washers, you could have the nut touching the inner sealing then.I am glad I could help.

Rodolfo · « **Reply #893 on:** June 01, 2014, 05:36:08 »

Your spline has 25 teeth ,like mine.Is the outside diameter there app.27.3 mm?

andyburns · « **Reply #894 on:** June 01, 2014, 09:26:02 »

Rodger has just finished making this little beauty on his lathe. All that I need now is a finished diff to put back in.

Just wondering if I should assemble the axles and reinstall before or after the diff goes in. I think the reduced weight of not having the shafts in place would make the installation easier. Anyone else have any thoughts on this.

jameshoward · « **Reply #895 on:** June 01, 2014, 15:56:05 »

I had enough trouble getting the axle on the car on my own without the additional significant weight of the axle halves. I would leave the out. It would also mean you don't need to worry about scratching other stuff when manoeuvring it around. Just don't tighten on anything until it's all together and under load, as has been discussed.

andyburns · « **Reply #896 on:** June 02, 2014, 00:03:13 »

More Rust Prevention

I am going to do the final fit up of the interior this week so it was on my to do list to finish off the rust proofing this weekend. I sprayed a further 2 liters of it into almost every nook and cranny. Some of the more susceptible areas, like the sill, have been re coated today as well. I poured 1 liter into sill a few weeks back which now fully cured.

Started on the rear tail light section. I really wanted to concentrate on this as I have seen so many photos of this panel full of rust. Put more than half a liter in here alone. A lot of it ended up on the floor after seeping through the panel margins. But this is exactly what I wanted. No point being mean with the wax when its only 20 dollars a bottle, would rather have the piece of mind that the wax has gone everywhere.

Moved into coating the two rear wheel arches from inside of the boot. Then stripped out the rear of the interior to gain access the rest of this panel and the B pillar. The cavity wax is really quite viscous so if you want a good thick coating on vertical panels you have to be patient and apply it in layers over a couple of hours.

After these I went under the car and doused the rear rails and also shock towers. Moved on to the inner front guards and rails then finished up with the fresh air vents and front nose cone.

Quite a dirty job. I will be cleaning the garage floor for the next couple of days with continuous dripping.

andyburns · « **Reply #897 on:** June 02, 2014, 00:04:37 »

More Rust Prevention

More photos

andyburns · « **Reply #898 on:** June 02, 2014, 05:14:01 »

Rudy, measured up my rear fixed axle shaft this arvo for you. Is that same size as yours. Hope this helps.

andyburns · « **Reply #899 on:** June 03, 2014, 02:41:36 »

I did some fishing on the internet last night for the new rear backing plate for the axle. I found a couple of joints in the states that could supply me one. Emailed first and asked if they had one in stock. I didn't here back so I woke up in the middle of the night and spoke to them. I need this part to put the diff back together so cant afford any delay which is why I went to this trouble. I explained all this to the kind gentlemen. The company was joint called ESC Tuning who I have never heard of before.

Was told it was in stock and would ship in one to two days. I paid for the part and shipping via paypal within ten minutes.

Four hours latter received an email notifying me that it will be between 3-5 weeks until ESC has the part let alone the shipping time back half way across the world to me. Seems that they didn't have it after all.

Frustrating. Probably will get a refund and seek the part elsewhere. Anyone have any idea who might have one in stock.

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Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level (Read 942090 times)

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