Restoration Difficulty Level

[Garry]

Andy

Another thing I did on my floors, not quite original but makes a huge difference in sound is fix an under-felt to the carpet then tape off the edges and spray it with an underbody deadener.  Additionally I have a second piece of felt that is rubber covered under the final carpet as well and on top of that I have the coco mats!  That way your carpet doesn’t ever get wet and manky and the second backing piece is easily replaced it water does get in there

[jameshoward]

Garry, Andy,

I've often wondered why people go to such lengths to apply sound deadening to a convertible. With he roof down its always going to noisy. With regards hood up the wind noise will always be considerable. The only benefit I can imagine is when driving with the hard top on. Am I missing something?

[andyburns]

Hi James,  I don't think I have gone over board.... at this point.  Just replicated what was put on at the factory.  Am guessing it was for a good reason, probably anti drumming.  I think it would certainly be 10 times as noisy in the cabin if you didn't apply anything.  I suppose at the end of the day you either trust in what others are telling you or try the suck and see approach yourself.  I have read in the pages of this forum at least 5 other people who have reported significant 'comfort level improvements' by adding sound dead material.  

I am not honestly personally not that fussed.  I come from a rip snorting little four cylinder background.  More so if I ever want my wife beside me (she hated the noise, smell and ambiance of the bmw 2002tii) I will have to start to think about how to make the car a bit more civilized if any protests are forthcoming.  Happy wife, happy life as they say.

[Garry]

I've often wondered why people go to such lengths to apply sound deadening to a convertible. With he roof down its always going to noisy. With regards hood up the wind noise will always be considerable. The only benefit I can imagine is when driving with the hard top on. Am I missing something?

Yes, but I cannot tell you

[RonB]

Hi: Looks like it coming along nicely.

When you do the sub frame, be sure  to replace the sub frame mounts no matter how good they may look.

From experience, if the sub frame mounts are bad you will ruin the drive shaft coupler in short order and then it will be a murderous job to replace it when your baby is all together. You will also want to replace ALL the rubber bushing. It will ride like new automobile.

Keep us posted on you progress.

[andyburns]

Cheers Ron,  thanks for the tip.  At the time I put back the sub frame I inspected the mounts very very carefully and they were fine.  All the rubber was selected from best bits from four or five sub frames I have hoarded over the years.  I am sure it will be up to the task.  I didn't pay as much attention to my 280se sub frame and it now drives like a new car.  You are right in that a lot of perceivable driving slop comes from what hangs off the frame!

[Flyair]

Garry, Andy, I've often wondered why people go to such lengths to apply sound deadening to a convertible. With he roof down its always going to noisy. With regards hood up the wind noise will always be considerable. The only benefit I can imagine is when driving with the hard top on. Am I missing something?

James,
it is about cancelling some type of noise to better hear the other type of noises. Such as the conversation your SO is having with you

[andyburns]

Dash Resto Part 1

Had a great day today at the main New Zealand classic car show for the year.  Lots of beautiful cars including the normal mercedes offerings.  Really got my enthusiasm going.  I have been a bit down in the dumps recently with a really sore foot that has got a nasty case of arthritis that I cant seem to get a handle on.  Really slowed me down a bit recently but after seeing the sights today I came home with a new found resolve.

Decided to plunge into the upholstery.  I was going to get it done professionally but have struggled to get someone to commit to it unless I move the entire car to their workshops.  Dont really want to let it out of my sight at the moment as I cant do other stuff on it.  I was hoping for a mobile service, perhaps working at my house for a couple of days to get it all done.  I had one guy who has done one before and quoted around 3-4k to fit the leather and carpet.  He didn't want to touch the soft top.

Anyway, have decided to give it all a crack myself and start with the hardest piece first.  Figure if I crack this the rest will be easy.  So start with the curves of the instrument cowl.

Started with stripping all the old material of the delicate wood cowl.  Just had to be 100% sure at all times not to damage the delicate tabs on the back and front of the unit.  Wouldn't take much to snap them off. 

Carefully peeled off the old crappy plastic cover.  Not sure if this was original.  Seemed to be quite a lot of messy application of glue to hold it in place but perhaps thats how mercedes rolled back in the day.  Anyone care to shed some light on this and if you think this is original.

After all the plastic came off I had to carefully clean off all traces of the old glue.  Important as if you left it in place you would almost definitely end up with lumps under your leather.   Not a good look.

[andyburns]

Dash Resto Part 2

Once the cowl was sparkling clean I set about trimming some suitable leather out of the spanking new hide sent to me by Buds.  Its quite intimidating making that first cut.   When the hides are worth so much you dont want to muck up and waste any of it. 

I spent quite a bit of time finding the right area on the perimeter of the hide to cut the leather from.  Because the dash top is so visible I don't want any imperfections.  The grain can be quite variable in places so careful selection was a prudent measure.

Made my cut and tucked the rest of the hide away so the dog doesn't chew it up or have and accident on it.  He was taking quite a bit of interest in it while all the action was going on.  This made me a bit nervous.

Before I sprayed any glue anywhere I came up with a plan of attack.  Spent quite a while doing this which I think paid off in the finish of the job.  Very easy for things to go wrong and end up with pulling or bunching.  I have seen quite a few speedo cowls where things seemed to have gone a bit pear shaped especially around the front lip.

Keeping to my rule of doing the largest areas first I sprayed up the top of the cowl and most of the leather.  Worked off the two high spots lowering the cowl onto the leather and then worked with a flat hand into the valley and down the sides.  A few panicked moment when a bit of bunching started to go on down the back side of it but this was fixed pretty quickly with a bit of stretching. 

[andyburns]

Dash Resto Part 3

Once all the main top surface was well sorted I started to work the back edge.  It makes it much easier to stretch the leather over these acute angles when the majority of it is already well glued in places.  The areas are going to be where the job looks like crap if you dont get a really good handle on even stretching.

At this point you have the opportunity to sit and play with the leather pulling it in all direction to get a feel for how to stretch it to get the best result.  Really pays off.

Once I was confident I sprayed up the back edge and went to work.  All good so moved on to the front.  Its advisable to only work small sections at a time.  You would end up in a mess if you tried to do the front and rear at the same time. Perhaps a guy who did this all day long may be able to cope but for me taking my time was key.

The front lip is much more critical.  This is the one you stare at all the time so making a dogs dinner out of this was not an option.  This is also by far the hardest edge to get right.  There is an excess of material so getting it stretched correctly was paramount.  Again I had a few nervous moments but it all panned out and I am thrilled with the result.

I finished up in the dark so havn't really got any good pics to show the result.  I had to take some under flash which look quite washed out.  The actual result looks much better and I am tickled pink.

Will try for one piece per day this week which will almost get the interior bits dusted before long.  Dont know if I will detail all these as its just more of the same.  Let me know if anyone is keen for it and I will try and oblige.

[Larry & Norma]

Great job as usual Andy, looking forward to seeing the completed dash

[Valvechatter]

Come on, Andy. Don't deprive of us of any of the action now!
Lin

[mbzse]

.../... It makes it much easier to stretch the leather over these acute angles when the majority of it is already well glued in places.  The areas are going to be where the job looks like crap if you dont get a really good handle on even stretching

An important step in order to obtain the delicate finish that can be seen on leather interiors made in Sindelfingen (M-B factory) is to shave the thickness of the leather down overall and/or at the edges, so that it is quite thin and malleable.
As I understand it, this is performed in special roller (rotary) cutting machines.
/Hans in Sweden

[mmizesko]

Andy,

I finally dove into your thread and spent over an hour reading the pages.  Wow! You are amazing for taking this project on with such Verve! 

I am mid re-paint and am hiring the leather work out on my 70 280SL.  The seats and soft top are done, but now have to do the soft-top cover leather which leads me to have to do the rest of the interior due to die lot concerns with the Cognac.

I had an idea that may be obvious for your Mexico Power amp.  There are a couple of old stereo repair shops here in Columbus that love the challenge of fixing old transistor circuits.  Tubes and capacitors are even better.  I laugh when I walk in those places because the store is stacked with old WWII era radio consoles, Macintosh amps and Thorens turntables.

I'm sure there will be one or more of these shops by you in NZ.  The guys who work there are mostly 60+ years old with gray ponytails, and usually have the Grateful Dead on in the shop.  You may want to see if they can replace your burnt capacitor.  I brought in an old 1950's Wollensak reel to reel machine to get working again and convert some of my dad's old "family" recordings to digital.  They were excited to take on the task, and did a nice job.  It did take a month though.

Can't wait to see the final product!

Mike Mizesko
Columbus, OH, USA

[DaveB]

Here's the Mexico TR amplifier circuit.

[andyburns]

Hi guys,  thanks for all your replies.  Dave thanks for the circuit diagram that is exacactly what I need.  Absolute doddle now to repair it myself.  All the components clearly labelled.  If you could send me a higher res version I would be appreciative.  The old eyes are squinting a bit to try and see things.  Mike, if my repair doesn't work I will probably hunt around for a repair shop in NZ.  Just a matter of finding one.  They are more a word of mouth thing these days and dont usually advertise heavily.  So might be a tall ask.  In this  day and age electronics are so throw away that these old shops struggle to survive.  I know of one guy in Levin that may be able to help.  A six hour drive mind you.

[rutger kohler]

Hi Andy, I have opened the Schematic that Dave B sent, in Adobe and save at 175%, even my tired old eyes can read this now.  You can size it up and down as you wish.  Would still give the amplifier to Pukekohe Hifi to look at if it was me, you have got enough to go on with elsewhere.

cheers

Rutger K

[DaveB]

I can send the larger version, it is easier to read. It's 2.4MB though, so can you PM me your email address?
Dave

[andyburns]

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Had a shocker today.  Woke up with a very sore back.  Drove 30km to work only to discover I couldn't even sit in my seat.  Turned around and drove home.   Tried going to bed but got bored after a couple of hours of surfing the internet so decided to utilize my time by driving 40km back into town to an upholstery supplier to buy some foam for the the dash topper and the rest of the interior bits and pieces.

I have used this crowd before and knew they had exactly what I wanted.  When I got there I was greeted with an empty abandoned building.  Went for my smart phone to check on the internet to discover I had left it at home.  Drove the 40km's home with the proverbial tail between legs.  Went to bed and slept for 3 hours!

Determined to recover some of the day I sorted through the rest of the panels that don't appear to have any foam.  Decided to start on the A pillar covers.  Does anyone know if they are supposed to have foam under them.  I couldn't tell from the mess that was present.  I think they probably don't have any.

Annoyed with lack of progress.  Still have a very large pile to get through.  Wouldn't it be great if you could replicate yourself.

Also a big thanks to Dave and Rodger.  I have clearly identified the two components I need to fix my amp and have started trying to find on the new sources for authentic replacement components.  Have decided to do it properly even if it costs a couple of bucks extra.

[andyburns]

Dash Resto - Part 4

Started on the main dashboard pad today.  Its anatomy is a 1mm thin aluminum shell with a 6mm sheet of open cell foam glued to it and then the final sheet of leather or vinyl pulled over the top and glued off on the back surface.  Mine also has a 10mm closed cell dense foam lip glued all the way along the front edge.  I dont know if this is standard and would very much appreciate anyone who is in the 'know' to comment on how it should have been.

 I do know that the 230 had a much more pronounced sharp leading edge in comparison to the 280.  I would like to get mine back to looking as it should.  I feel that from the factory they would have simply pulled the open cell foam right the way around the leading edge and then just upholstered over it.  I have seen a few original dash pads where the leading lip has gone all loose due to the foam collapsing.  I am guessing the last guy to do the upholstery probably saw this and tried to mitigate the problem by using the lip of much more durable closed cell foam. 

It took quite some doing to pluck off all the old foam.  I am almost certain now that the foam I took off is not original.  Absolutely sucked up my solvent N.  Am wondering if I should have used paint stripper on it now.  Would have cost less and probably have taken half the time.

Anyway one step closer.

[andyburns]

One thing I forgot to add is that I had done a bit more research on glue.  Have decided to change from Ados Ultra High strength to Ados F38.  The F38 is heat rated to 180c and the Ultra High only around 90.  Still probably ok but dont want to take any more risks.  Probably should have used F38 on the instrument cowl but too late now.    As a test I left the Cowl out all day in the baking sun today and it didn't show any sign of letting go.

[mdsalemi]

I have clearly identified the two components I need to fix my amp and have started trying to find on the new sources for authentic replacement components.  Have decided to do it properly even if it costs a couple of bucks extra.

Andy, be careful here: you might want to rethink "authentic" replacements, if any of those parts are capacitors or other electronic components that fit into the "organic" category. Finding someone with NOS, authentic components might sound like a windfall of success until you realize that a 40+ year old capacitor is, well, OLD. Any kind of electronic component that involves plastic (caps are a big one here) should be replaced with something brand spanking new. So, when you find authentic, just be careful.

Plastic breaks down; and plastic film dielectric is an essential part of a capacitor. If the part is a polarized, electrolytic capacitor, don't ever think of using an old one.  I don't know what parts you need, but go for newly manufactured.

[GGR]

Dash Resto Part 1

Had a great day today at the main New Zealand classic car show for the year.  Lots of beautiful cars including the normal mercedes offerings.  Really got my enthusiasm going.  (...) Decided to plunge into the upholstery.  I was going to get it done professionally but have struggled to get someone to commit to it unless I move the entire car to their workshops.  (...) Anyway, have decided to give it all a crack myself and start with the hardest piece first.  Figure if I crack this the rest will be easy. 

I did a bit of cut and paste, but I think this summarizes the spirit of this restoration quite well. Scared of nothing. Just diving into it! Way to go Andy, it will pay off, the result is going to be outstanding and you will have the unique satisfaction of having done everything by yourself!

[andyburns]

Hi GGR,  just kind words like yours that keep me going.  Very soothing indeed!  To be honest at the moment I am struggling through the pain of arthritis which has this week got the better of me.  Michael, the only issue is that sometime you struggle to get modern components with the same ratings as the old stuff.  I have chatted to a couple of guys in New Zealand from the antique radio society who are helping me out with advice.  Either way, old or new, once I have the new components its a 10 minute job to fix.  I am looking forward to getting the radio mounted up in the dash,  in my humble opinion kind of the crown jewel.  Need to start thinking about aerial selection next.  Have always loved the little red tipped ones but know they arn't period.

[DaveB]

Hi Andy,

Sorry to hear you're under the weather (is it literally weather-related?), hope things improve soon.

Like Gael, I'm sure many of us enjoyed the "start with the hardest piece first" approach!
Other upholstery problems I see on many restored cars are the compound curves on each end of the dash, the 90 degree bend on each end of the soft top cover and the front edges of the door panels. Your techniques really seem to work though, the horn pad and instrument pod certainly look good.

I believe that 10mm strip of dense foam on your car is probably original and it looks good enough to stay there. I don't think the thin foam sheet continues over that dense foam strip (or the A-pillar covers) but I'm not sure because, as you know, the thin foam degrades to almost nothing even in places where it originally was installed, like the dash top. Alfred or Achim may know.

IMO the ultimate period-correct antenna for your car is the Hirschmann automatic 6000D58 - see photos. This is one solid piece of work weighing around 3kg. Seeing as the antenna is completely hidden in the front fender though, I guess you would be fine installing later model. Or a manual version but I can't help thinking that sooner or later someone would bend it!