Restoration Difficulty Level

[Bonnyboy]

I think many of us have wiring loom fires - i was driving through the desert and a rock bounced under the car and crimped the wiring loom and shorted out the right side of the car - yep it was an MGB  4 circuits for whole car - 1 left side - 1 right side etc.   i lost lights, fuel pump, ignition to distributor and almost everything important.   i cut wire from the lighting at the sides and made an emergency repair with my swiss army knife to get me to the next town - there I hit the motherload - I pulled the wiring harness from a beetle and wired the car up - fuel pump to the left side marker lights and headlights to      I made it home but holed a valve (timing was off) so had to run fairly hot to keep car running - only 1 speeding ticket in 600 miles of driving like a maniac.    now  I always carry "lighter solder" and heatshrink and wire with me in every vehicle.   After that I rebuilt the wiring loom and placed it inside the car so that my travel on gravel roads would not cause the same problem - who but the british would expose a wiring loom under a car - that 13 hr trip took almost 2 days of pushing, hitchhiking, begging, walking, swearing and driving terrified the car would blow up. 

[andyburns]

Guys,  I love both your stories.  Its made me think a bit harder about paying more attention to the repairs.  When I can get out of bed again I am going to really concentrate on chasing the wires back into the loom to ensure I end up with a decent repair. Bonnyboy  after reading your account I am also going to put an additional sleeves on the all the energized alternator wires. 

I have yesterday cut out the wires with failing insulation  and looted my spare W108 of equivalent cable.  The main alternator feed cable on the 108 loom had the same issue.  The cable has two sheaths, an inner solid plastic one and an outer fabric.  On my 113 they had both failed where the wires came out of the loom and were subject to heat.  You can clearly see this on the previous pic I posted.  The exact same issue was seen on my 108 loom.

I had to cut back into the 108 loom more than 12 inches before I got to some decent cable.  So you guys are correct in saying that potentially these wires are perished all the way back through the loom and a potential fire risk.   

For some reason only the main alternator wire and the starter motor solenoid cable seem to be an issue. Both these cables have a different insulation material than the rest of the loom.  The starter motor wire has a very flexible jelly like insulation which has also packed up all the way into the main loom. I dont know why Mercedes used different material for just these two wires.   I really dont want to hack my loom apart.  I am thinking that even if the problematic wires have failing insulation inside the main loom as long as the insulation of all the other wires is intact that things should be good.

[andyburns]

I have been sizing up putting my exhaust and inlet manifolds back on this morning.  I cant do it until my back has come right but am just doing the thinking to figure out the best way.   I remember having a really torrid time of things getting them off and it looks as if putting them back on will be no easier.  The exhaust manifolds will go on without much fuss.  I need to take off the power steer top pipes to get the clearance required.  But the inlet manifold is going to be much more problematic.  To slip it on to the head studs it interferes with the brake booster and master cylinder.   This is obviously only a rhd problem.  

I have formulated two approaches which I would like to run past those of you who have had to tackle this on a rhd.  

1) Take off both main engine mount bolts and try and move the entire assembly to the left hand side of the car by an inch or two.
2) Loosen the left hand bolt as much as possible.  Remove the right hand bolt completely.  Jack the right hand side of the engine so the engine twist slightly on the left hand mount and point the manifold toward the sky as much as possible.

Let me know what you think.

Also I am finishing off fitting up all the pipework that fits under the manifold.  I have a mystery clip that I cannot figure out where it goes and if it is screwed to the rail.  From my original dissasembly photos it looks as if it was just hanging in mid air doing nothing.

Any help on this would be appreciated as well.

[Garry]

Andy,

Dont have my car here at the moment to check but here is an earlier photo of the shock tower top where I think you have a pipe with the stray fitting???  Or am I on the wrong side and it is the exhaust side.

Garry

Have added a second and third photo.

[andyburns]

Hey Garry thanks for your reply,  

Your second and third photos are the relevant ones.  Interestingly it seems that your pipes may be run in the wrong location.  Did you have them re manufactured when you did up the engine bay.  Possibly the mechanic has put them back in the wrong position.  Just a suggestion at this point, but it looks as if someone has routed them down the side of the right chassis rail rather then on top.  I am almost certain that the pipe sits along the top and is clamped down with a saddle which is screwed into the top of the rail.  Take a look at the photo I posted of this pipe when it was painted gold.  It looks like the rubber pipe at the front of yours is now running so close to the manifold that someone has wrapped a red heat shield around it.  If it running along the top you would have another couple of inches clearance.  

I checked with both my 72 and 67 W108's and they both also use the top of the rail for this pipe.  

It could possibly be just the angle of the photo that you took.  Would be interested when you get back to check it out.

[andyburns]

Hey Garry thanks for your reply,  

Your second and third photos are the relevant ones.  Interestingly it seems that your pipes may be run in the wrong location.  Did you have them re manufactured when you did up the engine bay.  Possibly the mechanic has put them back in the wrong position.  Just a suggestion at this point, but it looks as if someone has routed them down the side of the right chassis rail rather then on top.  I am almost certain that the pipe sits along the top and is clamped down with a saddle which is screwed into the top of the rail.  Take a look at the photo I posted of this pipe when it was painted gold.  It looks like the rubber pipe at the front of yours is now running so close to the manifold that someone has wrapped a red heat shield around it.  If it running along the top you would have another couple of inches clearance.  

I checked with both my 72 and 67 W108's and they both also use the top of the rail for this pipe.  

It could possibly be just the angle of the photo that you took.  Would be interested when you get back to check it out.

[drmb]

Check the photo gallery 3rd march 2012 and you will see where the pipes go on my 230sl.

[Garry]

There was concern that that hose was getting too hot and put some insullation on it which is now painted black..  That explains it and I need to re look at it.  Drat. :'(

Garry

[GGR]

I think I remember moving that pipe from the side to the top to clear my V8 exhaust manifold. May be that pipe wasn't installed the same way on all cars? Mine is a '71 LHD.

[andyburns]

Thanks drmb.   Appreciate it. I hope you don't mind but I will repost your pic here to show the location of your pipe which is the same as where mine is located along the top of the rail.  Do you recognize the clip in my second photo.   That was my initial question to the group and we have got a bit distracted with the position of the pipe.  Also any chance you could throw me bone and give me a tip on how to get enough clearance to put the inlet manifold on 

I cant see it in your picture with the pipe in question looking as if it held in place only with the one saddle.  Also am interested to see that it looks as if your pipe has some rubber between the pipe and the saddle.  My saddle is very tight fit on the pipe and I don't think I could fit any in.  I had my pipe re-manufactured in stainless an from memory the new pipe was only 1mm larger than the original.  Did you get your remade and have gone slightly smaller and need the additional interference?

Garry the bad news is that if you want to change the position of yours you will probably need to take off the manifold.  That saddle sits directly underneath with only an inch or so of clearance.  You would have to be some sort of contortionist to get your hands in there with everything in place.  On the other hand I would be worried about that pipe running in such close proximity to your manifold. 

GGR perhaps your correct as well.  The early exhaust manifold was completely different and looks as if it bellows out closer to the chassis rail.  I would be interested to see a photo of the latter cast iron manifold clearance and compare.
 

[Garry]

Interesting as there appears to be different pipe routing between dmb and my car.

[andyburns]

Garry,  drmb's pipes are identical to mine and his car is an early 230sl as well.   I think there are so many pipes going everywhere on that side you best wait till you get back home and can trace everything accurately.  Its a bit of a nightmare doing it from photos.  Did you get your pipes remade.  I know from experience that they pipes are almost always buggered and often on the point of failure.  They are tucked so far out of sight that they often go unnoticed and are a major candidate for slow water leaks.  If you got yours remade then perhaps they didn't stick with the factory pattern.  I know when I made mine that it was a nightmare to copy all the subtle curves especially with a thicker wall stainless pipe.  Mine still dont line up perfectly with the inlet to the interior heater and I am going to have to borrow the bending equipment again and tweak them.

[Garry]

I purchased new OEM ones. That particular one had very different curves that that shown in dmb’s photo so maybe the early 230’s were different that my ’65 as he also has a reservoir that I dont have.

 Next week I am away for a month starting with the Euro Tour in UK so will not be able to get to the car until October as I have given it to the mechanic to see if he can work out the oil leaks that I have not been successful in stopping as well as doing a overhaul of my brake booster.

Will just have to wait I guess.

[kampala]

he also has a reservoir that I don't have.

Are you referring to the clutch fluid reservoir for a manual car on DRMB's photo?

[andyburns]

Garry,  if your mechanic is going to take off the brake booster he will have to take off the manifolds so a perfect time to also take a second look at the water pipe location.  I think your car is automatic and you may be referring to the absence of a clutch fluid reservoir as Kampala is eluding to.  I dont believe this would have any bearing on the pipes used by the factory as its hoisted well above where the pipes run.    You are sooooo lucky to be going over on the UK tour.  I hope you have an awesome time! 

[drmb]

I never put the motor in with the gearbox lets it move more,you can then put the manifolds on before the engine is on the mounts,therefore avoiding the booster.
The cllip you have has another identical part on the top,one half clips on the heater pipe the other onto the brake vacuum hose.

[andyburns]

Thanks Lloyd,  that makes sense about the clip.  It must have broken some point in the past and never been replaced.  I have two of the clips you refer too.  I think they are used to hold the rubber hose that goes around the back of the engine to the water tank and clip on to the hard pipe that goes around the back of the engine.

Dont know what I am going to do about getting the manifolds on then.  Guess I am just going to try my first two methods suggest in my earlier post before dropping the gearbox.  I did manage to get them off with the gearbox in so somehow they must be able to be put back.  My memory is not what it used to be.  Get really frustrated when I forget this stuff.  Old age!

[rutger kohler]

Hi Andy, back home again now.  I don't know if  your setup is the same as my 280SL but I had the air/fuel intake off and on with the engine in the car. I may well have had the brake master cylinder and booster off at the time though.

cheers

Rodger

[andyburns]

Cheers Rodger.  I am still bed ridden so wont be doing anything anytime soon so no hurry. 

I have been doodling around this morning looking back at some 3000 high res pics I have of the entire restoration.  I am wondering if anyone would be interested in viewing them.  They have proved invaluable to me especially during the reassembly process.  Things that you are 100% sure you will remember just vanish and things that you didn't notice at all but need to know crop up constantly. 

I am happy to host them on my own server or donate the set to 113.org if anyone is interested.  I have started by putting up a few here.

www.andyburns.co.nz/Mercedes230sl/index.html

[getsmart]

Get better soon Andy, I've had lower back pain last few weeks too, its the pits !

BTW you promised me a copy of your 3000 high resolution pics a while ago But I realised you are flat out like a lizard drinking - for you non Aussies look that saying up in google
Happy to send you a memory stick to get them

Rgds, Joe 

[andyburns]

Hi Joe, thanks for your kind words.  I can send them over to you.  It might pay to wait until I have completed my entire resto, less the hard top, before I send them.  Currently I am sitting at about 12Gb of data which will happily fit on a low cost stick.  Seems no one else needs them so am happy to pass them on if they will be of use to you.

Decided to venture, or in my case crawl, back into the garage today.  Probably an incredibly stupid thing to do but my mind is turning to mush surging the net.  I have no idea how people sit in front of it for so long.

Started by trying to have another go at fitting up my hard water pipes that I had made up in stainless.  After an hour of trying to bend them to suit I came to the conclusion that a bit of trimming was the only way to sort the fitment issues.  I hack sawed off a couple of cm from one end and tig welded another bead around the pipe to hold the clip.  Fitting much better now but has put me back a couple of days as I now need to strip the pipe again and paint it.

Installed the rest of my wiring loom.  It isn't as easy as you would think and required that it came out and went in quite a few times to get it right.   One area where I didn't take enough photos. 

Then moved on to figuring out how I can get the manifolds on.  I managed to do a complete trial fit with ease without having to take the engine off its mounts at all.  I will document the procedure in the next couple of days for all you RHD guys.

[Peter van Es]

I'll be upgrading the server here soon so that we would have the space too, e.g in the technical manual. The biggest job would be to categorise/organise them such that relevant parts can be accessed/found easily.

Peter

[andyburns]

Peter,  I have already categorized most of them.  Let me know if your interested and I can upload them.  More than happy to host them here as well. 

[andyburns]

Spent today fitting up the exhaust manifold and checking everything for clearance.  The early headers are very cool but take up a bit more room in the engine bay than the cast iron equivalents. 

The power steering pipes out the top of the box come very very close to the bottom of the rear manifold if they are positioned to run where I think the factory intended.  I dont even know if early 230's had power steer as an option.

In any event I have experimented with running them directly down the side of the car.  Put a bit more of a kink on the flexible hydraulic pipes but mean that they have a couple of inches clearance to any hot surfaces.  Dont think boiling power steer fluid would be a  good look.  Can anyone else tell me if they have looked at this problem.

Also stripped my alternator in preparation for repairs.  Will throw in a new set of bearings and brushes as well as repairing part of the alloy casing that broke when I was taking the car apart.

[andyburns]

I decided that the repair of the alternator casting was best left to a specialist so I took down my nicely bead blasted parts to a local specialist.  I left specific but friendly instructions with the office lady not to let the 'boy' at it and stressed how rare the part was.  They did a pretty good job on it and I doubt I would come anywhere close with my skills and equipment.  The repair only cost me 40 dollars so again I think I have made the correct decision.

Also bead blasted and dropped off my very last load of parts to the gold platers.  That was quite a good feeling as that part of the restoration hasn't been the most enjoyable.  I dare think about how many hours I have spent in front of the blast cabinet.