Restoration Difficulty Level

[GGR]

Hey Andy! Any updates?

Have you seen this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmkiBz65Wjs

leaking injectors may be your problem. They can be cleaned and sorted.

[stickandrudderman]

Andy, I posted a video on here some while back demonstrating how to check for a blocked air filter on the WRD. I find it too difficult to paste links from my iPad so will have to rely on you or someone else finding it.
You should also disconnect the pipe from your cold start injector and plug it to see if that stops your over-fuelling.
If that valve is leaking then you will get over fuelling and fuel contamination of the engine oil is also possible.
Check the oil in the engine and the pump for fuel smell and low viscosity.
A quick way to confirm that you are over fuelling is to disconnect the throttle linkage at the top ball joint of the fuel pump linkage rod and slowly then try to open the throttle with the engine running. If the engine runs faster you have proved (by leaning off the mixture) that you have over-fuelling.
A failed barometric compensator can also cause over-fuelling and you can use a similar crude method of adjusting that by hand to see if there's any improvement.

[PIP1947]

Hi Andy
If you are pulling bits off old 108's, I suggest that the best bit of all is the dealer fitted aircon unit that was so popular in the late 60's. The unit fits nicely under the 113 dash and accommodates modern Japanese components, making your Pagoda a truly modern car for daily driving purposes.
Regards
PHilip
1968 280SL Tunis Beige Metalliv

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Hi Andy,,

Here is the post and video Colin is talking about ... ---> http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=15630.msg107442#msg107442

EDIT Colin read Glen ... my bad. ... Sorry Colin

[andyburns]

Everything is easy if you know how

Thank you everyone for your input.  I have taken it all on board and carefully go over every single suggestion.

Life is a **** sometimes.  I have deliberately spent a whole week away from the car to cool down.  I decided to finish off my anpr automation project.  I have a dedicated camera down our drive specifically tuned to see car plates.  For the past four years I have been gradually writing the software to pull the plates off the live video feed and compare it with a live police feed of stolen license plates and then email and text me if anything of interest was seen.  This week I decided to enhance the system to open my gates if it saw a trusted plate.  It was to be a pleasant distraction to car problems that were out of my pay scale.  Isn't it always a relief to work on stuff your familiar with?

In my 'week off' I had slaved like a dog and got everything up and running and tested.  Friday night just as I was going to push everything off to my production servers my development server tipped over with a hard disk crash  in a very specular way.  In my hast to get everything out I hadn't backed anything up.  Didn't think life could possibly be that cruel.  I have been trying fruitlessly for the past two day to try and recover my weeks worth of work.  

Ironically I used the project to get away from my troubles with my car.  This afternoon I found myself going back to the car to get away from the software.  

Tested the pressure of the new pump.  12 psi at the pump which is better than my old one at 8psi.  Will take that slight improvement.  Still not factory minimum figures but much closer to it.

Then tested the pressure at the csv valve.  Only got around 8psi here.  Decided that the pressure differential may have been due to a clogged fuel line.  I am now questioning absolutely everything and everything was taken off the car and refurbished.   Its more than likely that my refurbishment of one of these parts hasn't been too beneficial.

Decided to wip the fuel filter and check for shrapnel.  Waste of time as everything seemed clean as a whistle.  A bit of slight debris at the bottom of the bowl but nothing more than you would expect.

Back to the drawing board.

Stick I have tried removing the filter on the WRD to no effect.  Also blown through the filter a few weeks back and it seems as if there are absolutely no restriction.    Thanks for that tip though.

GGR I think your suggestion of blocked injectors is more likely or a rack issue.   The video was really a head turner.   I have seen that guys previous videos.   I really like his style and he obviously knows his stuff and loves the cars to bits.  I just dont have the money at the moment to even pay for the testing and dont have the equipment to do it myself so am a bit stuck.   If it isn't a rack issue it will be an injector issue.  I had my pump apart to plate up all the bits and pieces and worked on the rack.  I cleaned it meticulously and even before I started it had a silky smooth action.  The only way it could have become 'sticky' in my mind is if some grit or crap has been sucked through the system subsequent to everything being plated up.  

Another more likely problem is that the injector lines, which I had so much trouble with and replaced, have had internal scale or rust disrupted and may have made its way into the injectors.  In the absence of professional advice I am left making such grandiose diagnosis.  I want to make sure that you guys understand this and hit me over the head with a cricket bat if my logic is flawed.  My lack of knowledge in this area is what is really getting me down.

Again I am back to rock bottom with no ideas of how I can proceed without putting my hand in my wallet.  Parking the project is the most obvious short term solution.  Perhaps I will start again with the software this week.  

PIP1947 at the moment I certainly feel like a rank amateur.

[Garry]

I like the trusted number plate recognition idea.  At our property I am looking at adding automated gates but the gates are a long way from the house and thus are to be solar powered.  The only way someone without a remote could get them to open would be to ring us to ask for entry. it is too far for wireless intercom unless i do a big upgrade.

Garry

[stickandrudderman]

Hey Rolf, who is this Glen guy stealing my ideas? 

[Paul & Dolly]

Hi Andy,

Sorry to hear of your problems - and my apologies if I suggest something you have already thought of but,

Have you re-checked all the primary fuel system from Tank to Engine bay , Tank Filters Lines  Pump ect for the correct Flow rates and pressure ?

This only takes time, no cost.

Very Impressed with your ANPR

Good luck and keep well

Paul

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Sorry Colin, I keep doing this (have done this before LOL to you as I recall), sometimes my fingers on this small Apple keyboard have a mind of there own I will have to watch this in future 

Hey Rolf, who is this Glen guy stealing my ideas? 

[Peter van Es]

Andy,

as a software guy myself I can commiserate with your bad luck on the ANPR project and the server. It's why I like github so much…

Peter

[ghenne]

Another software guy here. Been there too.

I agree about GitHub. I also often do my work in a DropBox folder, which automatically keeps backups of stuff.

[Benz Dr.]

I'm glad I only have to figure out my own problems that don't include computors

 On my best days, it's just within my desire to keep going in the frozen hell of SW Ontario this winter.

[andyburns]

Dan, I think that a life working me with computer has given me the patience needed to deal with 113's.... well to a point.  At the moment I am undecided which one is more of a pain in the ass.  Cant say I know what an Ontario winter is like but if it is so cold that it somehow numbs your mind when you encounter a few of these 'tricky' challenges then all the better.  All I have is lorazapam.

[andyburns]

Have been taking a bit of a break again while I sort my ongoing back saga out.  In my downtime I have had lots of time to think about and plan my next move on the path to getting the engine back in working order.

I have been watching heaps of the you tube video that Kent Bergsma has put out including everything he has done on fuel injection.  Really feel much better prepared to tackle the issue I currently have with the bad over fueling issue.

In particular I have been very suspicious of the injectors.  In two of Kents videos he talks about over fueling being a notorious issue on 'old' Mercedes and suggested that a good proportion, if not majority, of these problems can be put down to dirty injectors that are not atomizing, leaking at low pressure or both.  His video, which I have a link to below, is quite compelling.  If you haven't watched it I highly recommend you have a gander along with all his other gems.

In his videos he describes how he can test and clean the majority of faulty injectors at home with a simple hydraulic pump setup.  He sells the kit for around 150US.  To me that represents about the sum it would cost here in New Zealand to get the job done professionally.  However as he pointed out if an injector is simply worn out no amount of cleaning will fix it and you may end up tipping your money into a black hole.  At least with the pump you know what part of the ball park your in before you send them out for professional attention.

Fortune has smiled on me this week and while browsing a local ebay type site here in NZ I came across an almost identical unit for only 30USD.  I decided to go for it and picked it up this afternoon.  It came with all the fitting to mate up directly to the MB injectors which was another relief.  

Screwed up the first one and already I think I have identified the issue.  The injector seems to release a squirt of fuel without the gauge even registering.  It would seem its stuck open.  These should take around 250psi to even begin to open and should hold pressure indefinitely at just under this pressure.  Take a look at the video for a demonstration of this.

I dont yet know if the rest will have the same issue or if they will be recoverable.  I first need a gauge with a much lower pressure range.  This unit was designed for diesel injectors which operate at thousands of psi.  Kent uses a gauge with a full scale deflection of 600psi.  I could get a 300psi gauge but you would end up risking blowing its brains out during the cleaning phase where you swap diesel for carb cleaner and pump the hell out of the unit to pulse the cleaner through the injector.  So am on the hunt for a very cheap gauge now.

If your interested in the videos.

1) How to clean the fuel injectors using the pressure tester.  http://youtu.be/Fb3fHKiVF4o
2) Testing of the W109 6.3 injectors  http://youtu.be/za-5sW2QOIo

This one is interesting about the rescue of the red 113 they called Lucky.  Of interest is that they got it so cheap because it had a burnt out wiring loom caused by those dodgy failing insulation of the wires around the alternator and the starter motor that I was talking to you about the other day.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM55ZalsAcI

The same unit that I purchased second hand can be landed for about 120 US http://www.aliexpress.com/item/PS400A-Diesel-Fuel-Injector-Nozzle-Tester/32274075667.html or you can just buy one off Kent for 170 which comes with a video instruction CD.

[Jonny B]

Andy,

Take a look at Pagoda Notes Issue 1 Volume 1. There is a picture of the famous Blacklick injector tester on the front page, lower right. I am trying to find the original picture, but that will give you an idea of how Joe Alexander approached the issue.

I have not found the original, but attached is the one I used for the issue of P Notes.

[andyburns]

Jonny,

He has a wonderful mind that JA.  I tossed around similar thoughts a while ago.  Perhaps rigging up one of my spare 108 pumps to a single phase motor.  But then you would have to supply it with fuel and soon you would be into replicating the fuel delivery pump and the filter as well.  I left it well alone after working through the logistic.  JA has obviously got a million times the mechanical ability that I do.  I loved the crank handle.  Sometimes the best things are the simplest. 

In the 'W109 6.3 Beast' video Kent eludes to a up coming project where he has rigged up a fuel pump to allow him to push carb cleaner through it to give it a thorough cleaning as well.   I think its due out very soon so will be interesting to see how he has done it.

[Jonny B]

Yes Joe does do some pretty cool things. I have only watched a couple of the videos, but he is cautious about spraying the fuel, a very wise idea!

[DaveB]

He has a wonderful mind that JA.

He does! Along with an admirable equanimity, generosity and restraint.

[Dave H]

Andy
I'm keen to know how the pop tester works out.
I too watched Kent's video with amazement at those gummed up injector nozzles.
I really hope it's the answer in part to a smooth running motor for you.
The same testers sell in the UK for £89 and a 600psi glycerine filled gauge can be had for £7 up over .
I was set to jerry rig one up myself until I saw you could actually buy them new.
Good look with your project , your almost finished.

[andyburns]

10 points for effort.

[andyburns]

Back to the basics.  Compression test with all plugs out and only starter motor assistance today showed all cylinders firing around 115psi.  Seems a bit low.  Anyone know if I am in a bit of trouble with these figures.

[paults1]

My '63 230sl - no.1 cylinder 145 all others 150. Runs great, no oil consumption.

[andyburns]

Did you measure it with the starter only.

[paults1]

Yes, did each cylinder with each spark plug out. Then replaced plug & moved to the next one.

[andyburns]

Thank paul looks as if i am in the **** then.  Perhaps prolonged rich running has stuffed my rings ir glazed the bores.  Just what i need.