Author Topic: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration  (Read 9633 times)

356/280SL

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1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« on: July 29, 2013, 11:36:32 »
Have the car for about a year now and quite often when I release the gas pedal to slow down there is a slight backfire sound out of the exhaust! Otherwise the car starts and runs great! As soon as I add power sound is gone. Had the ignition and timing checked and adjusted! Not problem there. Plugs are good! Using shell V power racing fuel!  Have read somewhere could be a problem with the solenoid on the fuel injector pump??
Any ideas?

Thanks  ???

Bill

simonarn

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2013, 11:47:18 »
Mine does too, always has done. I like it ;D

rogerh113

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2013, 13:28:53 »
I get a bit of a backfire sometimes, but it is generally when I am lazy and leave my foot resting on the gas pedal a little to hard when de-accelerating (without braking).  Could be my linkage is a hair too tight, and the slight weight of my foot on the pedal bleeds a bit of gas into the engine.  You situation may be the same - at least worth a check before any extensive work on the car......

Regards -- Roger
1966 230SL black 4 speed (250 low compression engine)

Larry & Norma

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2013, 15:29:04 »
Mine used to before I did the linkage tour :-\
Larry Hall (Gnuface)
2023 Ioniq6
2005 C230
1970 280SL

49er

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2013, 15:33:02 »
Mine too (for the same reason Rodger mentioned-lazy right foot). I believe it is because of the micro switch on the firewall for fuel shut off is still open when the the pedal is depressed only so slightly. It is a "hair trigger" so if it misaligned, it be the cause of your problems.

john
1969 280SL 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 77217 miles
7280 miles since awoken from her 20+ yr "nap" in 2010

garymand

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2013, 17:03:34 »
I have had it happen when the FIP is set too lean.  Simple answer: give it a few CCW clicks on the rod. 
Gary
Early 250SL German version owned since 71, C320, R350, 89 Porsche 944 Turbo S

Cees Klumper

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2013, 20:54:06 »
I seem to recall that an airleak at the exhaust manifold can also cause backfiring, so you may want to check the manifold and downpipes-to-exhaust tbes connections.
And Garymand, I think to add fuel to the idle mixture it's turning the knob on the FI pump clockwise rather than counter-clockwise.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

garymand

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2013, 21:53:21 »
I've had it happen when adjusting the rod for tope end.  I'm not sure about the idle screw, because the idle was in th eball park.  But you have a good point if its that simple: the idle fuel setting at the center screw could be too lean and that is easy to verify on your tach.  and easy to remedy with the engine off and cooled down a bit.  The screw is CW.  the Rod is CCW rich
Gary
Early 250SL German version owned since 71, C320, R350, 89 Porsche 944 Turbo S

Alf

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2013, 23:04:29 »
i get a little popping if the engine/exhaust is hot and i'm right off the throttle and the car is moving say at 10-20 mph down hill. Engine revs are up but no air to combust the small amount of fuel that leaks into the cylinders so it gently pops in the exhaust. No harm surely?
Alf
'69 280SL. Silver (180 G) with black hardtop

wwheeler

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2013, 15:20:52 »
Bill,

Is the car a US spec? If so, '68 was the year they added a second solenoid to the IP. In that system there is also a relay, microswitch (like John said) and other goodies to eliminate the backfire on deacceleration. I have a schematic of the system if needed. Not sure if it was ever installed in Europe?
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

enochbell

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2013, 17:12:19 »
I'm with Simon, I don't mind the popping.  I don't do it with any regularity but you can induce it with manual transmission, with car traveling downhill at speed, with tiny throttle input.  Reminds me of the effect of trail braking in an old Can-Am race car, if anyone is old enough to remember or lucky enough to have seen/heard one.

With fond memories,
g

356/280SL

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2013, 17:13:30 »
Thanks for the input! Yes it is a US 68 car so I will check to see about that second solenoid ! I'll report back on that one!

Bill ;)

wwheeler

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2013, 19:49:25 »
If you have an automatic, The system almost completely cuts the fuel off via the solenoid at the IP when:

- the throttle is at idle (microswitch)
- Engine is above 1200 (?) RPM (large square relay that gets feed from coil)
- Trans is in drive (neutral switch)

The fuel shut off solenoid is longer and below the standard starting solenoid. My W111 has the same system but the components are in different places. The biggest problem with this system is that if the relay malfunctions, it may shut the fuel off at all times! And of course the engine will stall. I will post the schematic tonight and is pretty easy to diagnose.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

wwheeler

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2013, 03:51:37 »
Here it is.

When I rev the engine in park, I can actually hear the coil dropping out in the large relay when the engine falls under 1200 RPM. It is a light thump. Took me a couple of years to find out where that odd noise was coming from. If you put your hand on the large relay, you can feel it.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

Bonnyboy

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2013, 04:29:46 »
I have a euro with a 4 spd tranny - only one solenoid.  I went out tonight to see where my car backfires.    On decelleration at approx 1800 rpm I get a bit of popping.  I can rev up to 5500 rpm and decelerate from there and still only popping at 1800 rpm.   This is only since I installed the new exhaust but it sounds so cool.

I assume that 1800 rpm is where the engine backpressure and the exhaust pressure experiences cosmic flirtation based on some mathamatical equation I can't begin to understand.

Ian
69 280SL
65 F-100
73 CB750K
75 MGB
78 FLH
82 CB750SC
83 VF 1100C
94 FLHTCU
08 NPS50
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Cees Klumper

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2013, 07:47:54 »
 This is only since I installed the new exhaust

An exhaust leak can be a cause of backfiring. Since it only started in your case when you fit the new exhaust, I would guess that it is not completely tight.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

garymand

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Re: 1968 280 SL backfires on deceleration
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2013, 23:11:47 »
Exhaust leaks are pretty easy to hear, and they don't sound cool.  I would assume you don't have a leak, but if you are not into cars much and wouldn't notice the sound of a leakey exhaust, maybe go out start the car and double check for unwanted sounds coming from the pipes.  Even a small leak at the header connections is very noticeable.  Its possible the new system is just breathing better than the old one.

More likely, it is the mixture.  counter intuitive, rich doesn't backfire.  Lean backfires at about 2000 rpm coasting with the tranny in 4th.   It is more apparent as the deacceleration increases, like coasting down a hill.  When mine is lean, it doesn't like to rev in 1st.  Half way through a light, at maybe 3k, it stops pulling, I need to shift to 2nd.  If it is too lean, you are going to be surprised how much power you are loosing.  There are 3 approches to troubleshooting it: 1) An easy check is to loosen the altimeter add another washer of about a 1/16in.  I would wrench the devise loose, then warm the motor so the WRD is not sucking air.  Then unscrew the altimeter and listen to the rpms to change.  I'll guess they should go up as you back it out about a few turns.  turn the motor off, add the washer/shim and test drive the car.  Don't leave it too loose, it will keep backing out till the car won't run.   That should bring the mixture rich enough to diminish the backfire if not eliminate it.  Keep adding shims until it sounds and feels very good.  Get back to us with the results.   
Gary
Early 250SL German version owned since 71, C320, R350, 89 Porsche 944 Turbo S