Google+ site for social activity

[Peter van Es]

Dear all,

I have created a new community for our group at: https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/114896020499069304582

This is our Pagoda SL Group official community. I created it so that photographs and albums are easier to upload. Google+ has better security than Facebook. Technical and content rich posts should still be made on http://www.sl113.org/ but community or social posts can be made at either site.

Please join at the above community and take part in the group feeling. I will create new links between this forum and the Google+ community in the near future!

Peter van Es

[Richard Madison]

Some of us (like me) are not on any social website...does this means that some content will be going away from this SL Group website and will not be seen by some of us?

Does this mean we have two communities and we will no longer have the single meeting place that we have now?

Unless I misunderstand, this seems to be a major change to this website and to the SL113 Group which we have always said exists on this website. Does this create a social place and a technical place...and if we choose not to be on a social website, that we wikll no longer have access to all the SL113 content?

Is this really nothing or is this something major that the Board agreed to?

I will not be joining Google + and will be unhappy to lose out on content and to have my dues pay for something of less value....please tell me I'm wrong about this..

Richard M, NYC

[pj]

Richard,
I have been a member of Google+ since they started. I respect your objections, but if you decide to give it a try, it's pretty innocuous. I find it less intrusive than Facebook -- where there are at least 2 groups devoted to our beloved Pagodas, by the way.

Maybe non-members can access photo albums on Google+. I will try to check that. If so, then we may as well let Google's servers host large albums of photos.

[KevinC]

..."Technical and content rich posts should still be made on http://www.sl113.org/ but community or social posts can be made at either site."


Looks to me like something "in addition to" as opposed to "in replacement of".  I would GUESS that perhaps our Photo Gallery and Events sections might be used less in favor of Google+ but am assuming all Technical info will remain intact and accessible here.

Kevin

[66andBlue]

Richard,
this was not discussed by the board and appears to be Peter's decision.
I am sure it has something to do with age but I have not joined any social media sites or groups either and shall not do so in the future. My hope is that members will still post their photos here and inform and entertain ALL of us.  If Goggle+ is merely used as a photo repository akin to Flickr or Photobucket where anyone can look at them then that is fine with me.

[Montreal V8]

 I'm not remotely interested in "Social" websites, and would not participate. This is a personal feeling, and in no way is meant to discourage those who like the idea.

[Flyair]

Peter
just joined. While I understand some of the point raised, I gather that google+ is one of the options for those who wish to share large numbers of their personal photos, which is otherwise impossible to do directly on the website. since it was not different so far, but just less organized, I don't see the reason to turn the back to your smart add-on, as some seem to demonstrate.

[ctm14]

This concerns me as well and perhaps my concerns are unfounded.    I like the feeling that our site is a central repository for all things Pagoda.  I don't want that diluted. Perhaps someone needs to post a thorough explanation of the value this will add.

Alfred you mentioned the decision not to join social media sites could be age related. You are correct I have joined a few and found very little value.  I no longer visit those sites and attribute my poor decision to join them to my relatively young age & lack of experience.  

[simonarn]

My question would be one of security.
Is the google site password protected only for invited guests and should the photos being shown on this website not be placed in the members only section?
My reason for asking is that I noticed that many registration plates are visible in the photos and having already had one attempted theft of another of my cars (a targetted theft not opportunist) I would hesitate to give so many details to a potential car thief.
In Switzerland you can easily find the address of the owner if you have the registration number.

[Garry]

But Simon,
  how do you hide your registration numbers when you take your car out for a drive when everyone can see it anyway??

I like the W113 site just the way it is.  Not quite sure what we are trying to achieve??

[simonarn]

Thats true, but the world wide web is exactly that, and any would be car thief would find it much more comfortable surfing the internet to find himself a goodun.
Personally don`t see any need to make it easier for them.

[Peter van Es]

Dear all,

well, that little action spawned a lot of commentary!

Let me explain my thinking. As pj mentioned below, there are currently two Facebook groups dedicated to the Pagoda. Neither of them were initiated by us or a member of ours.
 

• Mercedes Pagoda W113 Club has 578 members.
• Mercedes-Benz SL (W113) Pagoda has 464 members.

Because we are not officially involved, it means we can’t do anything about stopping spammers, controlling content or what have you. Those of us that visit these Facebook sites know that there is quite a lot of spam. They also know that I frequently contribute a photograph or so, and that I link back to our site http://www.sl113.org at times.

I hope to draw people back to our site... for technical content and detail. On Facebook you occasionally will see entertaining pictures that are not available here...



Some of you may know that I am involved with the national Netherlands Mercedes-Benz classic car club as a “troubleshooter”, advisor to the board. The biggest problem they, and most car clubs face is the fact that the membership is getting older and older. Attracting new, young people is essential to keep a club alive. Making them enthusiastic so that they participate, volunteer, organize events is essential. Those of us that are getting older know it takes a lot of energy to organize events, write articles etc. Those not yet retired can be much more productive at that.

Even those here that are “too old” to join social sites must read in the newspapers that social sites, mobile access and so on is where it is at. So when I noticed that there is not yet a community for Pagoda’s on Google+, I created it. Without calling a board meeting, or discussing it. If the opportunity is there, you grab it. Google+ has excellent applications for iPhones, iPads, Android phones etc. Shoot a picture and upload it to the group in seconds.

And because I created it, I can do things like passing on moderation status to my successor or other Pagoda SL Group people. I can remove spammers. I can remove offensive posts.

And yes, posting 259 photographs on Google+ is easier than uploading just 4 on our site. Plus it does not use any space on our server.

So my intent is:

• We post original material on www.sl113.org
• We post the best photographs and stories here, in the appropriate section
• I post volume photographs on the Google+ group, and encourage others to do the same... only in order to post you need to join Google+. Everyone can see the photographs
• I will post a link to an article here on the site on Google+ regularly, so that people are encouraged to join us for further technical information. And if you have a Google+ account, you can do the same.

Those of us that have been at the European Events or the celebration know that I strongly believe that it is the people that make up the group. It’s the cars that get us together, it is the personal bonds, camaraderie and fun that keep us together. I stood up in front of a 500 people audience to remind everyone of that in Willingen. So the purpose of our Pagoda SL Group on Google+ is exactly to get more people enthusiastic about Pagoda's and enthusiastic about joining us. So join, if you like!

What I learned from this episode?

I need to explain my thinking more clearly, and we do have a lovely little bunch of old fuddy-duddies in our group  !

Statler and Waldorf, over to you again!  

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for doing this!

I have a SmugMug account it costs me $60/YR I will not renew it next year Google+ seams the way to go to upload photos in a flash.

[enochbell]

Weighing in on Google+...
The advantage it has over Photobucket, Flikr, and the like is that it is free.
The disadvantage is that it is a destination, not just a repository.  That is what makes it a social website.  I don't think a social site will add to the fabric of this marvelous online forum.  I also cringe when I see posts that could be viewed by male and female forum members alike as misogynistic.  The magic of this site is that a large group of very nice people have found fellowship, advice, and a resource to enhance their enjoyment of the Pagoda.  Part of the group will like participating in a social website like Google+ and part won't.  But I see the net effect as dilutive to the Forum.

That's just my $.02

Greg

[Alf]

Although I'm the wrong side of 50, I work in the mobile industry and am a not a technical or social fuddy duddy. I'm an active facebook user and do most of this on my Smartphone. One of the great frustrations with this forum is you can't post photo's & video's from a mobile device. At least I haven't managed to figure this out. However I do buy the community mobile user. So at Willingen last week, I could post to facebook but not to this forum. Also when I had a problem on the road last year it would have been easy to post a picture of the problem and get input from the forum members rather than explain it in words.

However, I do buy the argument that Google plus IS a social destination and I think its inevitable that if we start posting there, there will be converstations that take place there rather than here. The community will be split. I do think this is an important issue for the board and all the options, including upgrading this site somewhat (is this affordable by us) or migrating the whole thing to a more socially capable platform should be considered. My appologies if this has already been done.

[mdsalemi]

And why have I not tried this?  Because when I click on Peter's link, I get an error message: 400. That’s an error. The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.

Peter cannot blame this on my "old PC and Windows Explorer" because at his fine technical analysis, I went to a Mac nearly 2 years ago.

Just as an FYI, I find some google stuff highly invasive--like it wants me to "log in" to things that should be just "peering in a window" and not require any log in.  It also is quite confusing because it (or me, most likely) has a problem dealing with emails other than gmail, and if you have multiple gmail accounts, well good luck.

Not for lack for trying!! 

[Peter van Es]

However, I do buy the argument that Google plus IS a social destination and I think its inevitable that if we start posting there, there will be converstations that take place there rather than here. The community will be split. I do think this is an important issue for the board and all the options, including upgrading this site somewhat (is this affordable by us) or migrating the whole thing to a more socially capable platform should be considered. My appologies if this has already been done.

Believe me, I've looked into moving the forum to a more socially, app aware version. I've moved this forum before from one software package to another, so I am well aware of the issues. The problem is that none of the more up to date forum solutions allow us to migrate the wealth of messages, threads and uploads to a new platform in an automated and reliable way. The only way to do it (and I have seen many communities do that) is to disable posting on this forum, and to create a new forum with empty content. So you'd get a new forum with many capabilities, but you'd still have to search this forum for knowledge. Believe me, that is worse than what I am proposing now.

Also, now, compared to 6 years ago, we could easily afford to pay for a high quality platform.

So I chose to opt to create a Google+ community. All current users will remain here, and post here. We entice (the keyword is entice) people we find on Google+ or Facebook that have technical questions or actually own a car to join us here.

And yes, you can then quickly upload a picture on the Google+ forum from your mobile device, and embed it in a post here, so that no one loses out.

Peter

[Peter van Es]

And why have I not tried this?  Because when I click on Peter's link, I get an error message: 400. That’s an error. The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.

And specifically, which link did you click? The first two links are to Facebook pages, which are only visible if you have a Facebook account and log in. Facebook is like that.

The third link is to the Pagoda SL Group Google+ Community. Which, as I said, does not require an account or sign-in to see. Of course they'd like you to get one, but you can ignore them.

Peter

[Peter van Es]

Is the google site password protected only for invited guests and should the photos being shown on this website not be placed in the members only section?

No. And photo's on this site are also publicly viewable (i.e. also for anonymous guests). Except for those photo's only shown in the Full Member Board, but then they are only visible to full members.

I can make all pictures invisible to anyone but registered users (as long as they have been attached, and not embedded into a post). The down side is that we then get a lot of people registering just to look at the pictures, and then never logging in again or posting.

Should you see a picture of your car with a license plate that you would like to see obscured, just mail me the link.

Peter

[mdsalemi]

And specifically, which link did you click?

Peter, the link was the Google+ link you provided in your first post: https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/114896020499069304582

...and you provided that (and I tried it) long before you had to explain yourself to others via the two Facebook pages, which came in a later post.

The error message is for Google+ is: 400. That’s an error. The requested URL was not found on this server. That’s all we know.  See the screen shot below.

...and I do have a Facebook account, and did go to those Facebook pages.  No issues there.

Of course, if I quit Safari, and run Chrome--the first thing it wants to do is obtain private information from the Keychain. Regardless of what I enter there, if I cut and paste the Google+ URL you provided above into the Chrome header, then it will take me there...So I can get there via Chrome, but not Safari my default.

So, seeking private keychain information which is what Chrome wants to do is what I call invasive; it wants me to login to Chrome.  Sometimes you just want to take a peek at something!

I remember a discussion some time ago regarding browsers.  On my old PC, running IE, I couldn't access something, and you suggested another browser, and then how IE wasn't the norm anymore. Point taken: I moved to a Mac and Safari.  Now that isn't good enough anymore!  I guess there's no winning in the browser wars!

Probably some incorrect setting somewhere in Safari...

[66andBlue]

..... Attracting new, young people is essential to keep a club alive.
.... will post a link to an article here on the site on Google+ regularly, so that people are encouraged to join us for further technical information
...... to get more people enthusiastic about Pagoda's and enthusiastic about joining us. ...

Peter,
I do appreciate your efforts to recruit more people to our group.
Time will tell how many of the "socially active" people on Facebook and Google+, or what ever the next faddish group is called, will really become participating members here, that is, provide technical information, assist in solving a problem, or add a new chapter to our technical manual.
Can we expect from a Google commenter who appreciates a young woman's "headlights" anything more than juvenile jokes and useless banter?

Just an old fuddy duddy's two cents.

[andyburns]

Peter,

I have only been a member of this group for a year or so.  You have cited an aging user base as one of the reasons for this move.  At the age of 40 the attribute that actually attracted me to this forum is exactly what you are now promoting as a reason to leave for 'greener pastures'.  I value and respect knowledge and experience of the current user base.  Generally this only comes with age.  I have had enough of hanging with smack talking teenagers

If you want to attract quality members then leave it as it is.  A new modern age phenomena that seems to have been sweeping up the entire world is the head swell that comes with telling everyone 'I have 872 friends on face book.  Are you sure that you are not getting caught up in this gold rush.  

Another effect that seems to be prevalent in the modern 'car club' is the trend more toward promoting the people that own the cars than the cars themselves.  The screen shot you have posted is classic.  I would rather talk about the car than the young lady is resting on it.  re tacky jokes about headlights....  all class.  Cant quite figure why you have used this example. Exactly what I don't want to look at.

This site is a fantastic resource for the pagoda.  I personally cant see any reason to attempt to divert traffic from here effectively weakening its backbone.   I also cant see any sense in diverting general traffic back in this direction which will more than likely have the effect of diluting the conversation quality on this site.

As you have pointed out, there are already two photo centric social networking sites.  Why create a third.   This site is very easy to find if your looking for it.

You have also cited technical reasons for not upgrading to new software.  Have you ever considered that amongst our ranks there are experts in the IT field who could offer help and advice on how to achieve doing this whilst preserving all the valuable content.  I guarantee you that an upgrade is quite easily achievable.

Andy

[Peter van Es]

You have cited an aging user base as one of the reasons for this move.

Not really, I said that most car clubs tend to decline because of an aging user base. One of the ways to prevent that is to provide a mechanism for new people to find your club. There is no move as such. I look at it as a new way of advertising our club.

I value and respect knowledge and experience of the current user base.

And I'm not suggesting we change that.... I'm just saying we use another way of advertising ourselves to ensure we get new members. I've seen many businesses go bankrupt pretty quickly because they did not adapt quickly to a changing world.

re tacky jokes about headlights....  all class

I posted that example from Facebook EXACTLY to indicate that we have no control over Facebook. With a Google+ group which we are in charge of, we can moderate that. By the way, we also have some posts here on this forum which would be similar to that post. We are still human...

Have you ever considered that amongst our ranks there are experts in the IT field who could offer help and advice on how to achieve doing this whilst preserving all the valuable content.  I guarantee you that an upgrade is quite easily achievable.

If you think it is so easy, does that mean you are volunteering for the job? Because then I can finally step down as administrator/developer/maintainer of this forum, and concentrate on duties as president, and look for a successor for just that part. I'll gladly give you the role to fix this.

Peter

[Peter van Es]

Peter, the link was the Google+ link you provided in your first post: https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/114896020499069304582

That link works for me in Safari (6.0.5), Chrome Version 28.0.1500.95, and Windows Internet Explorer version 8 and upwards...

Peter

[Peter van Es]

Time will tell how many of the "socially active" people on Facebook and Google+, or what ever the next faddish group is called, will really become participating members here, that is, provide technical information, assist in solving a problem, or add a new chapter to our technical manual.

Indeed, no-one can tell this. But I know one thing... most of the changes I've made here met with similar disapproval. A Wiki... will that not reduce the number of new posts? (No it did not). The membership system, is that not too invasive (no it was not... it meant that more people renewed). The Full membership has grown from less than 200 with the old, manual membership administration to now well over 650 members, and still grows every year with 10%. People I've linked to via Facebook joined TODAY.

It won't hurt us. It may not work. But at least we are experimenting. I've been looking at the number of new post on Pagodentreff.de since the Willingen event. I think they had around 20, and very few pictures of it. Here, we've had more than 100 posts in the same time period, and many, many more pictures posted. Alfred, you should know since you are a member of both sites. So we should innovate to make sure we attract the traffic...

Peter