EPC access for full members living outside of the US

[rutger kohler]

Several days ago Garry Marks made a plug for all those who use this site to become full members.

I fully agree with this, however becoming full members would become much more attractive to those living outside the US if they could automatically get access to the Electronic Parts Catalogue, as those with the US already do (as I understand it).

How difficult would it be for the club to lobby MB  to get this done, and why is access restricted to to US residents at the moment?  Can we put this in motion?

[andyburns]

I second that motion!

[Cees Klumper]

As far as I know the US member access is not through this group, but through the US MB club? I.e. membership in the Pagoda Group does not give anyone access to EPC? And so far, I don't think the Group has been recognized in any way by MB.

[Peter van Es]

I had another try at formal recognition by MB at the last Techno Classica in Essen, given how the cooperation with the German Pagoda SL Group was going... MB just couldn't care less...

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

... MB just couldn't care less...

That is really a great pity ... I always found if at first we don't succeed try and try again .... wondering if the right person has been asked .... why should we (the rest of the world) not have the same access as the owners in Germany ??  ??

Why not go directly to the top and contact 

Dr. Dieter Zetsche

e-mail: dialog@daimler.com

or address a request to him here ...

Daimler AG
Corporate Headquarters
Mercedesstr. 137
70327 Stuttgart
Germany

[tel76]

If you are a member of the UK official  Mercedes-Benz Cub  you get access  to the EPC free.
You do have to jump through hoops to get there but it is possible,( I find it too much hassle and prefer calling into my local stealer).
I do not know if you could access it from New Zealand but I feel sure one of our UK experts will have the answer.
Eric

[andyburns]

I know if your a member of the NZ Mercedes car club you also have access to EPC via this link http://mercedes-benz-clubs.com/Anmeldung/ClubLounge/73/de/001

I am guessing but I think its probably available to every Mercedes Benz car club world wide.  The NZ Merc car club is only 70 nzd per year to join so if you need access to EPC the membership pays for itself instantly.

[Cees Klumper]

I had another try at formal recognition by MB at the last Techno Classica in Essen, given how the cooperation with the German Pagoda SL Group was going... MB just couldn't care less...

Thanks for having tried again.

I tried a couple of months after we formed, the history is elsewhere. I couldn't fault MB for reacting negatively then (although I was not thrilled for having come 500 or so km for what became one of the shortest meetings I ever had) but one would think that, 10 years later, thousands of members more and a score of great live events behind us, one would think we had established our credibility by now. Alass, it's organized by country and since we don't fit that model, it's tough luck.

[rutger kohler]

Hi, I don't belong to a NZ MB group anymore, I have in the past but found that most members owned modern MB cars and did not really have the same interests as me.  It makes more sense to me to be a full member of this group.

I think a valid point to make to MB HQ is that the combined membership of this group must spend a great deal more money on parts per capita than any other MB group world wide?

Also the combined per car advertising for MB itself for pagoda's far outweighs any other model, just by us driving our cars.  I realise the gull wing is more iconic but how many of these are there?

What can MB's possible objection be, to giving this club's full members access to the EPC?

[Benz Dr.]

None of the otherwise valid points made here make a bit of diffrence to MBCCI. They grandfathered the exsisting clubs in NA about 10+ years ago which are the Gullwing Group, 190SL Group, M100 Group, MBCA and MBCC.


There are number of other reasons why we are, and will continue in the future to go nowhere with this idea. The reasons are complex with a few explanations given here already but to go into this would open up a lot of things for discussion, something most don't seem to want because they appear to like things the way they are.

The very nature of how we do things would have to change before we will ever be recognized by MB and I'm not thinking anyone here has the balls to to put up their hand at the next meeting. Last time I tried that I got all of my fingers shot off so, no thanks............ 


There is a Russian web site with EPC on it.  I looked but didn't spend much time there so I can't say how good it is. MBC is a different operation than MBUSA and they don't offfer EPC for us. MBUSA asks for a ZIP code which means I'm out before I begin.

[Peter van Es]

Alass, it's organized by country and since we don't fit that model, it's tough luck.

I met with the guy at MB who is in charge of the Classic Car clubs around the world. I'm fairly sure that if you contacted Dr Zetsche, that's where the request would end up anyway. I had lunch with him, he was very nice, listened politely, but MB also needs to cut back. Their policy is: one official, affiliated MB club per country, except for Germany, where they have a bunch of type related, affiliated clubs. When I mentioned there were exceptions to this rule, he immediately accepted that, but indicated that these were recognized in the past, and that they were carefully pushing these smaller groups (eg a 190SL group in Italy) to merge with the country group.

There are some downsides to becoming one of their groups too... To fully benefit (I.e. Access to EPC) we'd need to adopt their membership system, which would not suit our platform...

So, an international Pagoda group does not fit their model. It does suit us. I suggest we leave it at that.

Peter

[rutger kohler]

OK it's been tried and won't work, thanks anyway.  i would have to say that Tom Hansen of MB classic responds immediately to any request for part details and pricing so I am happy with that.

[Cees Klumper]

... When I mentioned there were exceptions to this rule, he immediately accepted that, but indicated that these were recognized in the past, and that they were carefully pushing these smaller groups (eg a 190SL group in Italy) to merge with the country group.

So, an international Pagoda group does not fit their model. It does suit us. I suggest we leave it at that.

Peter

... although one of these 'exceptions' was another model-specific club in Germany that was given recognition status years after the official "one club per country" was adopted, showing that there are exceptions possible even today. But I fully agree that it's probably more hassle than it's worth, and at least we can never be accused of not trying.

[Benz Dr.]

Or, maybe our original idea to be an international operation was too ambitious and now it's starting to cach up with us.

[Cees Klumper]

No, we're even more international than when we started. The only thing we won't achieve is 'MB recognized status' which may have more afvantages thN disadvantages actually. It just seemed like the right thing to strive for at the time.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

I noticed on our Williamsburg Name Tags it said "The International Club for Mercedes 230SL, 250 SL and 280 SL Pagodas" was that a typo???

[andyburns]

I have never had the privilege of playing with EPC but have found this on the internet.  http://mb.ilcats.ru/group/class/1/ccode/1/cat/249/type/113/subtype/042 

Does it offer everything that EPC does?  If MB wont support this club for preserving part of their history then should I feel guilty about finding some form of 'back door' pseudo epc hosted on the internet? 

Also if you go to ebay right now and type in the keywords 'Mercedes EPC' you will find a three or four dozen  pirate traders openly advertising for both EPC and WIS for as little as 30USD.   I can only assume that these have all been leaked from CD's supplied to the dealer network.  These have been available for some years and it would seem that Mercedes has never decided to come down hard on these pirate copies.

With it being so easy to obtain a pirate version of this software it seems absolutely ridiculous to me that they shouldn't supply us a legitimate version to host on the 113 server.

I would like to think that in a peculiar type of way I am doing Mercedes Benz a great service by preserving the blood lines of one of their most coveted creations.  This model is now gracing more classic car magazine covers than ever before and is seen by a vast international audience.  Mercedes don't pay for these restorations but indirectly benefit from the exposure.  Surely this alone must go along way to bolster their reputation as a premiere brand.    I would have thought supplying the community responsible for the majority of the effort with a closed copy of EPC would have been no skin off MB's snozzle.

But as you guys have pointed out,  no point flogging a dead horse.  Will just stick to my dodgey Russian web site and continue to hope like hell the prices continue to rise so I recover some small fraction of the 1500+ hours of labor and very expensive genuine parts I have poured into it.

 No risk to me whatsoever.

[Tomnistuff]

I know if your a member of the NZ Mercedes car club you also have access to EPC via this link http://mercedes-benz-clubs.com/Anmeldung/ClubLounge/73/de/001

That link looked familiar so I checked my favorites.  That`s the link I used to try to access the EPC today from here in Canada, using my MBUSA Club Card number.

I got as far as signing in to the EPC but ran up against an agreement that I had to sign.  It said that I would be eligible only if I can provide a European Union permanent address and pay a fee that was not identified.  So I backed out.

Maybe it bluffed me out.

Tom Kizer

[Cees Klumper]

I noticed on our Williamsburg Name Tags it said "The International Club for Mercedes 230SL, 250 SL and 280 SL Pagodas" was that a typo???

The official name for this group is the "W113 Pagoda SL Group". Back in the day we were concerned that adding the words 'Mercedes Benz' would open us up to litigation from MB. That perception has been relaxed a bit it seems.

[Peter van Es]

Or, maybe our original idea to be an international operation was too ambitious and now it's starting to cach up with us.

  And what makes you say that, with 4 PUB's since 2005, 3 Events in Europe in 6 years, this year 3 successful events in Australia, the US, and Europe... and members from 84 countries, and 673 Full Members from 42 distinct countries?

Peter

[Benz Dr.]

And what makes you say that, with 4 PUB's since 2005, 3 Events in Europe in 6 years, this year 3 successful events in Australia, the US, and Europe... and members from 84 countries, and 673 Full Members from 42 distinct countries?

Peter

Sounds pretty impressive doesn't it? 

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

I have just received a reply from Mercedes Benz (Marcel Schuh Mercedes-Benz Classic Mercedes-Benz Club Management Club Manager Overseas HPC R 051 70546 Stuttgart). The reply is in German.

I referred him to this thread and what he is basically saying is ....

QUOTE "Wie bereits in einem Eintrag in Ihrem Forum geschrieben, ist der Zugang zum EPC nur unseren offiziell anerkannten Mercedes-Benz Markenclubs als Benefit vorbehalten. Gerne können Sie in einem unserer offiziellen Mercedes-Benz Clubs Mitglied werden (z.B. Mercedes-Benz Club Canada - http://www.mbclubcanada.com) und neben vielen anderen Vorteilen auch das EPC kostenlos nutzen." END OF QUOTE

TRANSLATION

As already written in an entry in your forum, access to the EPC is our only officially recognized Mercedes-Benz brand clubs as a benefit reserved. You are welcome in our official Mercedes-Benz Club Member (eg Mercedes-Benz Club Canada - http://www.mbclubcanada.com) and in addition to many other advantages, the EPC is free.

I cannot access the Mercedes Benz of Canada Forum (I only have a membership number and no membership card still waiting for Germany to mail it to me). Apparently the membership card has a "Captcha" number that I must enter in order to register at the club site.

END of TRANSLATION

I do have a Model 113 - Catalog "A" 1972 US Version it is quite specific as far as parts are concerned, however, access to an electronic parts catalog would be super. I shall see once I get my Membership card if it holds true to access this data base.

[Benz Dr.]

I've been a member of the MBCC for a long time and I don't recall there being anything said about access to the EPC. My bet is no one ever asked about it so it never came up. So I really can't say that is, or is not available.

  You see, our greatest strenghts are also our greatest weekeness, that being distance. Just to get to P-50 was a two day drive, such are the distances in NA. I didn't see any presidents from the club there because, again, it's too far to travel. Everyone who had P-50 events had them where the greatest number of cars could make a resonable effort to attend. This not only makes sense but is a resonable approach to fairness. Other than flying out to Caifornia I doubt I would drive my car out there for a given event. I may go there on my own at some point but that's of my own doing.
Nor will I likely ever go to Oz and it's fairly unlikely that I will go to Europe. I'm going to hazard a guess and say that 98% or more fall into this same general travel catagory. It's from that position that I say our goals have been too ambitious. All of the stats of members from all over the world are purely incidental when you honestly take a look at the big picture. What we have here is evolving into 3 clear and defineable regions being Oz, Europe and NA. These are the areas where the most cars are, will likely continue to be, and where the bulk of our members are from. All members are important of course, but most can't or won't change where they live. In fact, the cars probably move around more than their owners do.   

 
 

[Peter van Es]

Dan,

you assume that because you and I did not attend the same events... we are not members of the same club. With all respect, but that is a load of crap. You are a member of the same club, that I am a member of. Regardless of whether we met in real life or not. I know that if you are ever in the Netherlands, I will invite you to my house, feed you and provide you with drinks, and we'll have a great time. Precisely because we are members of the same club.

I've come to visit people I met through this Internet forum, all around the world, a number of times. I've seen their cars... even driven them. I've visited their houses etc. Others have visited me, stayed here, ate here, and we had fun and a great time.

I think that I've met over 80 people (and yes, that's just over 12% of the Full Membership) in real life. I won't mention names but those who know me know... and I'm sure feel the same about the club. I know others amongst us value their virtual connections as much as I do, and also value the real life connections.

Location and life visits is just one thing. I know of many members whose day is not complete without checking the forum, reading all the new messages and keeping up. They enjoy the virtual company almost as much as life company.

So stop being grumpy, and accept that the club is successful. Why do you always have to present such a negative view?

Peter

[Benz Dr.]

Oh, so having a different point of view is being negative?


  The distances are too great for us to have a world wide club. It works OK on the internet which is basicly what we have right now. We also have three areas of activity because that's where the cars are. I didn't invent this - it's happening all by itself. We can either be proactive and get in front of changes that will happen anyway or we can sit and wait them to happen.

 I like the people in the club and get along with everyone - I think they like me too. Don't start painting me like I'm some kind of hobo that just walked in off the street, OK?