Novice wants a pagoda-where to start?

[Evanal]

Hi all. I live in North London and after years of looking enviously at other people's pagodas, I have decided that I'm not getting any younger and must buy a pagoda. I know nothing about cars and want to know where to start and how to find one that isn't a complete rust bucket. If you have any advice I would be really grateful to hear from you. Many thanks.

[Paul & Dolly]

If I were you and lived in London, I would  take a trip to both Roger Edwards Motors, and Colin Ferns (stickandrudderman) on here, and listen to their advise so you have some idea on what to look out for.

Good luck

Paul

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Hi Evanal,

You found the right place to start your search. Welcome to Pagoda SL Group!

Well last March when I found mine I had the same questions as you on my mind and found this fine forum here. Soon after I took out the membership that paid itself back many times over. Once you do become a member you will have access to the Technical Manual that is available to all members here. There you will find a pre-purchase check list that has been compiled by members here to help you find just the car you are looking for.

You being in London, UK and if I was you I would visit "Chelsea Cars"

Link here ---> http://www.chelseacars.com

This of course will give you an idea as to quality and price.

Then there is the Internet and Google search to find one in your area. Once you do there will be the check list I mentioned above to guide you.

Also in your area there is a shop that handles mechanical as well as restoration work. Colin is a member here and his web site is as follows.

Link here ---> http://www.colinferns.com
Visit Colin he has cars for sale I think. So poke around and have fun!

Good luck in your search and once again Welcome to the neighbourhood.

[Benz Dr.]

I give everyone the same advice. Buy the best car you can't afford- you will save in the long run.

[pj]

Welcome to Evanal!
I live in north London, too   
Find someone to trust who knows about the Pagodas. Someone who posts here. It worked for me.
So much fun is waiting for you. And please keep in touch.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Benz Dr. is right ... that is what I did, well I was lucky to find one in great condition.

Peter (pj) We are in Little London town ... Evan lives in Old London town ... in the UK 

Evan, Check this out Colin had one for sale here ----> http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=19120.0

[iftykhan]

Hi Evanal,

I was precisely in your shoes about 2 years ago and with the help of the guys at Roger Edwards Motors I learnt so much.
I would thoroughly recommend an inspection of any potential purchase by an expert. I'm pretty sure Colin (stickandrudderman)
 provides this service.
I viewed around a dozen cars before my purchase. Many of these vehicles were described as excellent/good condition but on closer inspection were anything but.
I also purchased a buyers guide by Chris Bass which is readily available on ebay for about £10
With prices increasing as they are, it's very easy to make a hasty decision but be patient and you will find the right car.

Good luck
Ifty

[GGR]

Welcome to the forum.

Well, as Benz Dr said, buy the best you can afford. Usually, the more expensive, the best deal it is. Let me explain: though the value of these cars is going up, they are still much more expensive to sort out: buying a car in average condition and bringing it to good condition will cost you more than buy one in good condition to begin with. Cost of labor and parts is high, especially when you don't do anything yourself. People who spent a lot on these cars rarely recoup their investments and sell at a loss. The bigger the investment, the bigger the loss. In other words, an expensive car may have cost the seller much more that he/she is selling it, simply because it wouldn't sell if they were trying to recoup their costs.

As said by others, especially if you don't know anything about Pagodas, have a good specialist help you in your search. That will be very well spent money as it will save you a lot in repairs and maintenance.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[aussiebattler]

Jump in feet first I say !!

Well not really, but I took pot luck when I bought my 230sl on ebay from a dealer in VA.

I'm still finding out "interesting" things, for example last week I started to dismantle the engine from the bottom up (it's out of the car)
I knew it needed new crank shaft seals, but was hoping the top end was ok.  Not to be, when I took the valve cover off, the engine was horizontal on a stand, something fell out on the floor, it turned out to be a valve collet. But on checking to see which one I was surprised to find them all in place, so clearly whoever worked on the engine last must have dropped one, not finding it went on to fit a spare I assume, just very lucky that it didn't find it's way into the timing chain.
Before this, when I removed the petrol (gas to those in US) tank and the level gauge sender unit, there was a "tide mark" which indicated that the car had sat around for a very long time at some period not so long ago.
Back to the engine, because the car had not been driven or even started apparently, there are stain marks and cavitation present in the cylinder bores. On measuring the bores we found that they are standard as is the crank, and even though the car had good oil pressure, there is damage to the bearing shells mostly due to the car apparently sitting around for many years.
I'm now looking for new pistons, main and rod bearings.
Oh ! I forgot to mention, the head has been welded at some point, is warped and soft, so also looking for a new head !!
The cam shaft was trying to run following the curve in the head, so the centre bearing had picked up as well.
Just a thought, but if a car has relatively low mileage, but has sat around for decades with out a regular oil change and turn over.. beware.
Jack

[stickandrudderman]

Either myself or Roger Edwards is where you need to be.
There is one recommendation above that I definately would not endorse........

There are other so called "specialists" around but the only thing they actually specialise in is BS.

BEWARE!

[Evanal]

Many thanks everybody for your responses, am really grateful and will follow up your recommendations. Saw a cream/white pagoda in primrose hill north london today it has made me determined to get one. Will keep you posted with my hunt for the beauty!

[jameshoward]

Either myself or Roger Edwards is where you need to be.
There is one recommendation above that I definately would not endorse........

There are other so called "specialists" around but the only thing they actually specialise in is BS.

BEWARE!

I've PM'd him about them, but the place is still worth a visit just to have a nose around. They have some great looking cars. I used to cycle past them every morning. There are some other sellers in London that have nice cars, also, and who have a different reputation. They're usually in the Gazette.

The secret as people have noted is to buy the best car one can afford, but it's only possible to know whether the car is a good one if you know about the cars in the first place. So it would need to be looked at by someone who knows the cars. Some private sales pop up in the gazette also, and on the classic cars for sale website.

[iftykhan]

Evanal

Anglia Car Auctions sale on 9th Nov has a nice looking 280

No affiliation with car or auctioneers.

[garymand]

Here is a great example of one to stay away from.  Maybe an excellent example of body rot is all the possible places.  

OOPS, heres the link, enjoy: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ctd/4139177739.html

[stickandrudderman]

Where is "here"?

[Benz Dr.]

Read my post again. I said, '' Buy the best car you can't afford. ''  If you can afford it you may be buying a turd.

[Evanal]

Thx dr b

[Evanal]

Thanks for all your advice. Next question is how much should I be paying for a 280? Am looking for good condition as advised for dr Benz. But expect to use it regularly so not looking for museum piece. If those in the uk could give me a range of expectations or where to look for pricing guidance would be v grateful (again)

[jameshoward]

This really is a 'how long's a piece of string' question, as the price of a car for sale does not necessarily have any bearing on the condition of the car. You could pick up an honest daily driver for a reasonable sum, or pay a mint for a pile of crap. A look at the back of the MB gazette will give you an idea of what cars cost, as will an online search. You just need to start looking, I'd suggest, and then eliminating the rubbish with the help of some folk. You should also read up on the cars as much as possible to save you wasting time looking at rubbish.

Also, why a 280 just out of interest? The 230 is a more elegant car (ducks for cover) and although the additional .5 litre engine capacity sounds nice, it makes no real difference (my point about a little reading...). So, I wouldn't restrict yourself to a 280, but would recommend that if you're looking to buy a pagoda, you should look at pagodas. The only thing I'd recommend you consider is any preference for a manual or auto box. If you really don't care about that, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding something.

JH

[Evanal]

Hi jh, thx for your comments. Re 280. From the brief amount of background reading that I have done, I got the sense that the larger engine was simply a better performer and that being a later model incorporated various improvents. In addition I understood it was more sought after and hence should I ever come to sell it, it would be easier. Given your comments maybe I need  to reassess that.

I am looking for an auto.

[jameshoward]

Just to get in before the 280 crowd start to talk about cranks, numbers of bearings, etc, I'd say you shouldn't be too focused on the 280 over the 250 or 230. I have a 230 (so I would say that, maybe...) but in my view the model shouldn't be the key issue. You should pick the best car for you. The 230 has more chrome (my comment about prettier...). Later cars have disk brakes, whereas the 230 has drums. I think that people get too focused on this. A car with drum brakes that is well set up is perfectly good enough given the limited braking that takes place at the rear. Some people just don't seem to know how to set up drum brakes, which is odd, since they're still widely used on cars and trucks these days. I think that today, given the price of these and the speed at which prices have risen, it's more about the car and its condition than the model.

The 280 vs 230 power argument just isn't a factor in my view. (And then there's the overheating issue... )

But no doubt 280 owners will flock to tell you otherwise. Just ignore them. 

[Garry]

I have owned both and I agree with James that the bling of the 230 and early 250 is much nicer than the use of plastics and lack of chrome on the  later 250/280s.  I like the higher revving 230 motor and on the brake issue whilst disks are modern, there should not be any problems with drums all round if set up properly.

Like James just look for the best condition Pagoda you can find and afford and as Benz Dr said, then spend a bit more than you want and with a bit of luck you may get a good one. Don't get caught up in the 230/250/280 spiels, just hope the one you choose is a 230 or perhaps an early 250 which I think is the best of the lot with a bit of the best of both worlds.

Garry

[Neil Thompson]

Hello Evanal, living in London you are in the right place to view these cars as that's where most are for sale. I'd suggest getting in a car for a day or two and look at as many cars as possible as I'm sure you will see many variations of quality, and price. You haven't mentioned how much you have to spend as average cars will be in the £30k's (more for 280's) to over £100k for top end cars (see Howard Wise Cars & Hairpin Motor Company) it might be worth going to the classic car show at the NEC next month for more ideas of quality. If you have little knowledge of these cars or indeed any classic cars, when you find something that looks 'right' I'd endorse other members comments and have it looked over by an expert, a couple of which have been mentioned here which are in London, which is most likely where you will find the car anyway! As for 230/250/280? I'd agree with others, find a good car first then make your own mind up.

Good luck

Neil

[iftykhan]

Classic Car Show at the NEC is a great shout.
I went 3 years ago, and altnough there wasn't a pagoda on show, there were lots of other stunning mercs there and the guys on the MB stand were very helpful. I remember an older gentleman who had just completed his 190SL who gave me some great pointers.
I also was in a quandry as to which model to go for but kept a fairly open mind and viewed all cars within my budget.
I did end up with a 280 but this was the car in the best condition out of everything I had viewed and turned out to be very reasonably priced.
As you have probably already noticed there are a few 230s regularly coming up for sale. A nice 230 will fly when it comes to selling in the future.
As most others have already advised "buy the best you can" and there will be no problems finding a buyer if you decide to sell. I emphasise the word if, as once you have experienced the joy of owning a pagoda it will be very difficult to let go.
If you are ever over Bucks way give me a shout and I will be happy to give you a look over my car and go for a drive.

Ifty

[Evanal]

Thanks for your comments and ifty thanks for the offer, I may well take you up on that. Am close to the M25, so not too difficult to get to bucks.
I will keep an open mind re model given all your comments.