Big 113 turnout at Starfest !

[ja17]

There was a very good 113 turn out at Starfest. The concours must have had over a hundred various Mercedes. I saw at least fifeteen or sixteen W113 cars. Pete Lesler, Rodd Masteller, Michael Salemi, Tom Sergeant, Bob Fellows, Jon Bernardi and Gary Goodman were some of our group who made the trip to rural Ohio.  The weather was perfect.

The three hour tech session the day before was in a service bay at the Mercedes Dealer where we lifted a few 113 cars for inspection and comments on maintenance.

Richard Simmonds, National President of The Mercedes-Benz Club of America, was eagerly taking notes during the presentation. Richard is currently restoring his 230-SL.

George Murphy, Ted Gotfried, Pete Lesler, other W113 owner's helped with  my presentation on W113 maintenance. Frank Barrett (editor of "The Star" magazine ) took photos during the tech session.

I am sure there are some other good photos and comments to follow.

Michael Salemi and Tom Sergeant entered their 280-SL's in the toughest class in which under carraige and wheel wheels are inspected. Many cars in this class have undergone $100,000 or higher restoration costs! Hatch and Sons sent a semi load of their finest to compete in this class!

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The majority of the cars in the show were in the "street" class and the under carraige was not inspected.

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Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[SL113fan]

Could you or another member post the results from the street and show 113 classes (i.e., winner & runner-up)?

Thx

[Jonny B]

I don't have all the results, but from what I recall (and the first one is easy to remember)

Best in Street - Jon Bernardi - 1967 250SL (that would be me)
Best in Class - David Cummings (Mary Alice Cozza's) 1969 280SL Euro
2nd in class - ??
3rd in Class - Don and Judy Brehm - Red 280SL (don't remember year)

Best in Class - Show Bob Platz
2nd in Class Show -
3rd in Class Show - Mike Salemi

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto

[Douglas]

Was the Platz car the same blue 280 SL he showed in Montvale last month?

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by Douglas

Was the Platz car the same blue 280 SL he showed in Montvale last month?

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

Doug, it probably was.  It was nice, but it was twice restored, once many years ago and once just for the show. Methinks that some of the early restoration stuff was showing enough age to make one believe it was original.  He's owned it for some time--like 20 years or so--and it is trailered.  Though it was nice, it couldn't hold a candle to anything Hatch was showing.  There were some elements to it that I thought were "tired" looking like the seats.  Yes they were original but 35 year old leather is 35 year old leather.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[Douglas]

I like Hatch's work, but his undercarriages are generally not as nice as you'd expect in a car for that kind of money. The Pagodas I've seen from him are just black and clean down there and not as detailed as his 111 cabriolets.

His interior work is always very nice. I understand he takes hides and thins them before he cuts them into covers.

Your comment about 35-year old leather raises a good point. In my opinion, there should be a restored class and an original class in these kinds of shows. 35-year old leather may not look as new as a restored interior, but an owner should be rewarded for decades of diligent maintenance -- or at least not penalized.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by Douglas

I like Hatch's work, but his undercarriages are generally not as nice as you'd expect in a car for that kind of money. The Pagodas I've seen from him are just black and clean down there and not as detailed as his 111 cabriolets.

His interior work is always very nice. I understand he takes hides and thins them before he cuts them into covers.

Your comment about 35-year old leather raises a good point. In my opinion, there should be a restored class and an original class in these kinds of shows. 35-year old leather may not look as new as a restored interior, but an owner should be rewarded for decades of diligent maintenance -- or at least not penalized.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

Well, Platz wasn't penalized for much of anything--even the lines in the leather.  On a car like his, there is quite a blur between "restored" and "original" since there was more then one restoration, and some restoration means replacement.  He may have, for example (just a guess here) changed the brake fluid reservois in the early 1980's when the "straight" one was available; now the only one available mounts at an angle, and Ted Gotfried didn't like it and dinged those who had the new one--even though it is an official MB ATE part.  If you used an old one but it had yellowed as they all do, it might have gotten dinged for that, too.  It's kind of a catch 22.  Richard Madison knows exactly what I'm talking about--he had clean original parts on his Mustangs, but used to get dinged points in favor of those who bought a shiny new reproduction!  It depends on the judge.  But, Platz is a professional restorer (unlike Tom and myself) with years of experience in working a show--and a car.  All in all, I think Tom and I did OK considering what we are up against.  We certainly got as many admiring lookers as Platz did because each of us had some features on our 113's that are more appealing to a casual observer then a judge.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[Tom]

Scoring is done by humans and thus is going to always be flawed.

I really enjoyed seeing all of those Pagodas that were in such great shape.  I would highly recommend our members attend a future Starfest with their cars if it is within a reasonable distance.

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1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic (restored & enhanced)
1971 280sl Tobacco Brown (low mileage stock)
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[ja17]

Hello,
The 280-SE Cabriolet restored by Hatch and Sons was one of the nicest cars I ever judged. It was clearly the best of show. I heard today that over $500,000 dollars was spent on the restoration! Every square inch of the car was near perfect top and bottom. The only mistake I found in the engine compartment was it had a 1.2 atmosphere radiator cap instead of the correct 1.0!
Some club officers are worried that such professional involvement is a little unfair to the rank and file amatuers. However to attract the such fine specimens the professonals need to be welcomed.
Last year in Pittsburg I saw a $750,000 Hatch and Son  300-SL gulwing restoration get beat by a owner restored 380-SL.
Michael Salemi and Tom Sargeant have two very fine examples. Either one of these cars could take best of show in any number of events. This years Starfest was a very tough show. Only three W113 cars were shown at the previous Starfest in Indianapolis.

I returned to Starfest today. They were running the timed track events on the 2.5 mile roadcourse.

The Mercedes Classic Center brought in a smart roadster, a smart car, a Maybach, a 2005 SLK, a 300-SL Gulwing and a running replica of the 1876 Benz. Starfesters were allowed to drive the smartcars around the infield roads and parking areas. Rides were given in the antique Benz, 300-SL roadster and the Maybach.

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In addition three new AMG cars were available all day long for anyone to run on a separate autocross coase, screeching tires and tire smoke all day long! By the end of the day the tires on all three cars were gone! Everone went home with big smiles.


Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Ben]

Just to add my 2c here, and thats 2 "Euro" cents heh heh !!

Recently at the Terenure Car Show here in Dublin, Irelands premiere event, the winning car was a truely amazing 280SL. It won Car of the Sshow, same last year, but I felt this was unfair for a couple of reasons. This car was restored from an utter wreck, judging by the photos every parts was ruined. The owner told me that literally everything on the car was either brand new from MB or restored fully. The car was not in its original colour, inside or outside, and to my eyes it had een "over restored".

Now the judging in this Country would not be of the standard throughout Europe or the USA, as there are few marque experts or specialists, thus it seems that once everything looks new it scores a point. My friend David (a regular on this site) had his 280SL parked beside it and whilst it too had recieved a significant amount of bodywork over the years, I felt it was much more original and authentic looking, retaining its original exterior colour, interior, engine bay treatment (the other car had a lot of chrome) and more importantly it had the slight "patina" of a car that had been used instead of one that had been wraped in cotton wool !

All in all there is room for both but I would prefer to see an original car gaining points purely because it had parts that were unrestored !

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

[rwmastel]

Joe,

That Smart Roadster was fun and interesting!  I drove it around on Monday.  On the AMG cars they had ESP turned off and I spun the C55 around, doing just over a 180.  If I had thought of it, I should have stood on the throttle longer and just gone the whole 360 and kept going!  They have incredible power!  I was amazed at the difference in steering feel between the C55 and the CLK55.  Did you run your car through the regular autocross?  I drove the E420 again and, if I recall correctly, my best time was 41.529.  It was a great day.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[mdsalemi]

It would have been nice if we had been told that we could drive some MB's cars around the track!  I probably would have stayed.  As the schedule indicated there were specific driving events that you had to register for.  With a ragtop and no roll bar, there was no chance that my car would ever see the track, but if someone handed me a helmet and an AMG of any sort I'd have been glad to drive it around, even the SMART car.  And the Gull Wing, well who wouldn't pass up a ride in that?

I guess next time I'll know better.


Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[ja17]

Hello Michael,
Yes, I know what you mean, this was all a surprise to me too. I guess the $60 registration fee was a deal if you knew enough to stick around for all the goodies!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[hauser]

Does anyone have pics of the Platz car?

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[mdsalemi]

I have some pix that might include the Platz car, but they won't show you much.  It is a light blue car, the winner of 1986 Starfest and apparently "the girl gets around" from what I'm told.  I think some of the excruciating detail that garnered it the most points would not show in the pix.  When I get mine all sorted out I'll post.


Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[Tom]

Here are some photos of the Bob Platz restored car:

http://pagoda-113.blogspot.com/

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1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic (restored & enhanced)
1971 280sl Tobacco Brown (low mileage stock)
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[hauser]

Hello Tom. Thanks for posting pics of the Platz car. I wish my brake reservoir looked that good.  

I have seen your car and read up on all the worked you performed on it. I think you did a really nice job! I especially like the detail of the underside. In my opinion it looks better in black.

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[Benz Dr.]

Actually, I don't think they were painted black underneath the car but more likely were left in primer - a sort of brown/gray colour.

 They must have been just stunning cars when they were new as were all the high end cars from the 50's and 60's. There's few cars finer than a 111 Coupe/Conv., a Ponton Cab., 300SL , 190SL and those slick 113's.

 Seems I've seen hauser's car before. I wondered if I did as the colour and 5 speed trans are unusual. I did all the mechanicals on it in the spring of 2001 before I went out west on the 190SL adventure with Tom Hamilton ( 190SL Group Pres ). Go to the 190SL site and click on to pictures of  ''Tom's trip out west ''.
We both have beards, but I'm younger. Tom had the car for a while before it went to Florida.

Daniel G Caron

[hauser]

Hello Dan.  I thought that when these cars were new the underside was body color? I have seen quite a few that the wheel wells were body color.  So which way is correct?

Pleasure talking with you the other day .

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[n/a]

As a new MBCA member and learning about the 230SL I'm restoring, I  enjoyed the tech sessions and meeting the members at Starfest - drove a Ponton as the 113 was not ready.  Having taken Pete Lesler's class earlier this year I especially enjoyed judging and learned first-hand the "secrets" of the winning entrants.  Being a hot day, the first entrant offered me some ice water, next one a cold beer, the next car had a $20 bill under a wiper, and by the time the judging was completed, there'd been negotiation to have my kids college paid for -interesting, no defects on those last few cars! All kidding aside, it was a most enjoyable day and to respond to the last comment, my unrestored early production 1964 car's chassis has body-color wheel wells from the factory with the paint covering the factory's rubber undercoating.

Don French
'64 230 SL - 299,000 miles and 5 other classic MB's

[Benz Dr.]

They are body colour in the wheel wells and probably the underside of the car as well. Some areas may not have been hit really well with paint and that's where the primer colour would still show up. I know that the plate for the trans is body colour but then I've seen some that were only sort of half painted so I guess it was up to who was doing it that day. I imagine they were done by hand but I really don't this for sure. Seems reasonable since they were low production.


Daniel G Caron

[Richard Madison]

quote:...the Platz car... It is a light blue car, the winner of 1986 Starfest...apparently "the girl gets around"

Yes, she does get around. Bob Platz's blue car took "Best of Show" at the MBCA Jamboree in Montvale NJ in June.

Richard M

[Shvegel]

Missed another happening...Dang! I was headed up to Minnesota to visit an old friend who is aa truly great automotive machinist and decided to pull the head off of my car to try and cure a smoking problem I was wrestling with. When I pulled the head I noticed that #6 piston top was oily and I thought that the new transmission modulator diaphram had leaked or ruptured and transmission fluid was being sucked into the engine via #6 intake runner and that I had just pulled my engine apart for nothing! Well, as it turns out there was indeed a problem with the head, the intake valve guide for #6 had decided to pull loose from the head and travel up and down with the valve. The neat part was that it didn't increase the size of the hole in the head it just wore away at the guide so I didn't need to order the oversize guide. Twelve guides,six intake valves, a set of seals and 12 new pressure pieces later I left Minnesota happy albiet a bit poorer.
 To make a long story short I went for a test drive tonight and all is truly right with the world(except for a jumpy tach needle). I have no excuse next year unless this winter's planned paint work goes into double overtime.
 Regards,
 Pat

[hauser]

Okay so the Platz car won.  Does someone get more points because they have a black top original looking battery as opposed to a new translucent Mercedes battery?  How about the alloy wheels? What year is his car?  I see he has wider whitewalls and perhaps original size tires. Does this contribute to the final outcome as well?

I have never entered a car in a show but can relate to what Tom said about human error.  As a former Rottweiler breeder/handler I can atest to that.  It is a shame that sometimes results are based on who you know.  I have seen too many judges base their opinion on the crowd's reaction or if they have a preferance to handler gender. Or perhaps this may be the entries last and final show. This happens all the time for various reasons. And most likely will continue this way for a very long time.

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[Tom]

The Platz car was a show winner for a couple of reasons:

Fully restored in 1988, it was recently "refreshed" and looked great.
The simulated tar top battery and fitted luggage were nice, but did not add official "points"

The tires were the Coker reproduction of the Phoenix with the rub stripe.  For some reason, a whitewall tire with the alloys looks strange.  Like wearing a plaid suit with a striped tie.  Social faux pas in my humble opinion.  The alloy rims were the weakest part of the car-looked like they were spray painted with a can of spray paint from Pep Boys.

The interior was original and well cared for over time.  The leather had nice character creases that you don't get with MB Tex.  Might have seen a deduct for those creases-don't know.

Top was done right-no curl on the corner and straight in the side panel.

This car won because it was best of class.

Professional restoration companies like Platz and Hatch MUST win these shows as it is their livelihood.  Can you imagine a 2nd tier restorer winning a national MB event?  It would be hard because 1) the 2nd tier restorer will make mistakes as he is not familiar with the brand and 2) politics.

I liked the Platz car so much that I tried to buy it-he wouldn’t sell.  Don't blame him-he needs to be able to show the car and bring in more business.

Just my additional thoughts on the show...

Best,

Tom



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1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic (restored & enhanced)
1971 280sl Tobacco Brown (low mileage stock)
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