What kind of offer for a 1967 230SL

[bodyman1977]

I recently noticed a nice looking 230SL in my neighborhood that may be for sale.  I stopped and spoke to the lady who owns it and she explained it was her husband’s car and he passed away about a year ago.  The car has been in the garage for years (but was registered and inspected last year) and was moved out on the street to allow room for a contractor to come in and do some work. The guy next door has been driving the car occassionally but recent had surgery and can no longer help out.  I asked if it was for sale and she said maybe and asked me to make an offer.  The husband bought the car from the original owner in 1969 and has owned it ever since here in West Texas.  It appears to be a European model as it has the Kmh speedometer and no side marker lights. 
Here is what I know:
It’s a 1967 230SL
White exterior - repaint at some point and not a great job and would need to be redone, chrome is pitted/imperfect all over and left rear bumper has a dent, minor dents on deck lid and hood, has a tow hitch
Blue interior - driver’s seat is torn, wood on dash and hard top in rough shape, two temp control levers a broken, carpet is worn from getting in and out, inside chrome is pitted, and steering wheel is cracked
Car has a hard and soft top
Power steering
4 speed transmission (the shifter has a ton of slop when in gear)
Strait six engine looks to be original but I haven’t ran the numbers, has many leaks when looking at the car from the underside (from engine, transmission, and rear member)
No A/C
Tail lights have tape over the reverse lights so I think the lights may remain on or come on with other systems so it might have a wiring issue
Looks to have a new fuel pump and starter
Currently I asked to hear it run but she said there is something wrong with it and she would rather I didn’t until the two items are fixed.  She couldn’t remember what the items were but she said minor items so I’m thinking points or coil.  She is supposed to contact the mechanic and find out what the items were and let me know. The car is complete and shows no signs of rust that I can see (under hood, rockers, floors, rear sill, hard top, ect).  I love the look of these cars and restore classics as a hobby but am not up to speed on what one of these that needs work will go for.  I looked around on eBay, craigslist, and classics car forums and they seem to start around $20K for a complete car thats ready to go and can climb up to $40K pretty quick for a nice example but this one will need a complete overhaul to bring her back to her original glory.  Assuming the car does run and runs well, what would be a reasonable offer to make?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Hello Bodyman,

From your description I would not pay more then $22K to $25K for that car since you can expect to dish out a similar amount to "bring her back to her original glory" or near to it as you stated in your post.

It be interesting what others have to say … we have some good people here on this forum that are far more familiar and qualefyed with this car then I am at this point in time since I only own one since May this year.

Good luck I hoe you can help the lady out and purchase the car then restore it and find a new owner. 

[Essell]

Hello Bodyman

Having just been through the partial restoration of my wife's 66 230 sl............I might suggest an offer of @15K. It is easy to pay too much for these cars.........so attractive and very cool...........they are very expensive to restore. Trying to make a profit from a project like this is difficult, even when you have a good skill set and a shop. The upside is that if you keep the car, in the fullness of time the appreciation will catch up and overtake your expenditures. Good luck!

Essell

[W113SL]

I agree with Essell. If you play much more than $15K, then the other costs will escalate the cost well beyond the end value..

Pete Lesler
W113SL

[bodyman1977]

Thank you for the feedback.  I would plan on keeping this one if I get it as there is not much cooler than a 2 seater MB convertible that is fun to drive and wont kill you at the gas pump.  My first thought was to offer $12K but I want to be fair to her as well.  I will give this post a few more days but Im thinking $15K is a fair offer if I can get it to start and it runs good enough to drive for a few years.  I read online they only made about 185 of the 1967 230SLs, pretty rare little car.

[KevinC]

Perhaps I'm a little optimistic...I might even go as high as $20k...

http://www.nadaguides.com/Classic-Cars/1967/Mercedes-Benz/230SL/2-Door-Roadster/Values

Here's my logic...IF (and its a big IF) it runs with good compression and no smoke and IF (and its a big IF) there is truly no rust (also checking panel fit for no sheet metal damage), I would guess even with the short comings you mentioned you could have a decent "driver" quality car for another $5K and possibly a very nice car for another $10K...that's also assuming you can take on some of the work yourself should you be inclined. If you can own it for $15k, great but I wouldn't walk away if she wants a little more. If you are looking for a big profit on the car, that could get tricky.

On the "rarity" piece....the 185 230SL cars produced in 1967 probably won't have possess any more value than those built in 1966 or 1965. Also, in the US, they marketed cars sold in September - December 1966 as 1967 models so technically a "1967" 230SL may not be as rare as one might think.

IMHO, when it comes to valuation on these cars,  I believe that rust is #1 concern, mechanics #2 (including electrical), panel fit #3 and interior #4.     

[bodyman1977]

It's amazing the value of these cars.  The last project I got I bought out of a field for $2K (1971 Land Cruiser in picture below) so getting a project car for near $20K is new to me.  With the end value of these cars being near $40K I guess its about right.  Thanks again for all the information.  I will find out in a week if she will allow me to purchase the car or if she will be giving it to one of her kids.

[KevinC]

Keep us posted.

Nice Land Cruiser, BTW!

[Khurram Darugar]

I would stick with $15k if you can confirm the body is solid.  Which might be the case.  That way you have a good base to pour ABSOLUTELY TONS OF MONEY INTO!

[Flyair]

At the level of 15-20k US$ you are safe as most likely the otherwise awful option of parting the car and sell pieces would cover the expense. Not that I advocate that option but it the floor, financially speaking.
If however the car is in a running state, 20k seems very low compared the levels seen recently in Europe. 

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

I have to agree with San … I think the $22 to $25K are more realistic.

[pj]

Thank you for saying that you want "to be fair" with the seller. I agree that $15k is a fair first offer, based on your description and the comments here. I paid a little less than that for mine. It ran fine and was complete but needed body work. I knew that it would cost me a fair bit more to improve, and I'm happy with the results so far. (Thanks, Dan!) As you have learned, there are lots of resources here. With your experience, you should be able to make the project turn out fantastic. Please continue to tell your story here!

[garymand]

Get the name of the mechanic and go talk to him about the mechanicals of the car.  He should have a good idea of the magnitude of minor and serious issues and you should ask him for a written quote on doing all the work.  Subtract the cost of getting the mechanical issues resolved from the 15 to 20K.  Give her a copy of the quote to show her kids its not all upside to take owner ship.  Find out how emotionally attached she is.  Maybe she has always hated the car and wouldn't miss it at all.  Sounds like a really good find if you want a long term love afair with a great car.   The car has to be in very very original condition to get 40K.  You sound like you can see the body an interior investment it will take to get it to either a level you are happy owning or able to easily sell it at.  Apparently, the prior owner used a mechanic to just keep it running rather than in the excellent condition it deserves.  If you aren't a mechanic, the quote will tell you what it will take, along with your input to get the car above 20k.  Go though the pics in this website of our cars and see why some of these little beauties get $40k. 

[bodyman1977]

Again, thanks for all the advice on this.  I went by today and spoke to her again and offered what I think is fair (I will let you all know if I get it early next week) and she is going to discuss it with her family.  I did look it over a bit more and found the only rust I could next to the muffler as you can see in the pictures.  This will have to be cut out for sure.  Is this an indication that the entire rear sill will need to be cut off?  There is this area of rust through and a small amount of surface rust, about the size of a nickel, on each rear quarter panel where the rear sill buts up against the quarters.  I tried to poke through but is it very solid so it appears to be only surface.  Other than that I don’t see any other rust.  Also snapped a picture of how she looks where she sits.  I know you have all seen hundreds of them but pictures are always fun.  Thanks KevinC for the compliment on the Cruiser.  My plan is to take this one to Maine and leaving it to drive in the summers as it is such an easy vehicle to work on. I will keep you all posted on the 230.

[KevinC]

Here's a great read for this situation...especially the "notorious for rust" part...

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Buying/PrepurchaseEvaluation#Rust

[Benz Dr.]

Get the name of the mechanic and go talk to him about the mechanicals of the car.  He should have a good idea of the magnitude of minor and serious issues and you should ask him for a written quote on doing all the work.  Subtract the cost of getting the mechanical issues resolved from the 15 to 20K.  Give her a copy of the quote to show her kids its not all upside to take owner ship.  Find out how emotionally attached she is.  Maybe she has always hated the car and wouldn't miss it at all.  Sounds like a really good find if you want a long term love afair with a great car.   The car has to be in very very original condition to get 40K.  You sound like you can see the body an interior investment it will take to get it to either a level you are happy owning or able to easily sell it at.  Apparently, the prior owner used a mechanic to just keep it running rather than in the excellent condition it deserves.  If you aren't a mechanic, the quote will tell you what it will take, along with your input to get the car above 20k.  Go though the pics in this website of our cars and see why some of these little beauties get $40k. 

Interesting discussion. The first thing I would tell anyone is these cars are under valued. 40K will get you an average car and not much more. 50 to 65K is robably more realistic in terms of a good car.  What people want to pay is up to them but one should be both realistic and informed.
As for getting a quote on a car that hasn't been running for a long time? You won't get one from me. There are so many unseen and hidden things lurking in old cars that I believe it's dishonest to say how much it will be because it's always more than even the best educated guess. It really depends on how you approach it. If you can get it to the rolling restoration level then you can fix things as you go. I wouldn't worry about the paint or how it looks too much right now and concentrate on mechanicals for the first year of ownership.

[Essell]

Hi Bodyman

Benz Doctor is so correct..........the mechanical aspect of these cars is so often overlooked. A 40 year old neglected car is an open ended question. Fuel system, suspension, engine, tranny and brakes should be addressed first..........the cosmetics later. For work you cannot do yourself, you must try and find and develope a relationship with a seasoned professional. Just take some time to work out a game plan and time line, knowing that 1 good top down drive validates all of your time and efforts.

Essell

[garymand]

These cars have a very strong emotional appeal.  The family may be attached but not know how much work is required to have a happy ownership.  That is why I would not make an offer without paper work that approximates the amount of work it will take and the cost involved in ownership.  That information can totally dis-sway an emotional adoption of a potentially free pagoda that appears to the casual observer to be a very desireable car.   I can see the drip pan under the motor, they know it has problems but probably they have know idea how much has been neglected.  Hopefully the mechanic has a good idea.  I would not make an offer without getting the car to a knowledgable mechanic who can give you a comprehensive quate.  And include a body cancer repair quote. 

Then you are forwarned with some estmate of the reality of taking on the ownership and you can possibly pop any emotional bubles of delight over the possibility of getting Daddy's pagoda free.

[KevinC]

Interesting discussion. The first thing I would tell anyone is these cars are under valued.

As far as these cars being undervalued (at least presently)... I'm not certain if you can draw any conclusions from this or not but its worth bringing up...take a look at how Gooding & Company has valued the first 32 cars going up for auction in Scottsdale this January....it seems that you could by a nice 113 for about HALF of the cost of a Jaguar E Type, a Porsche 911 or a 190SL.... I am sure condition, mileage and options/rarity plays into it but half?

http://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/?status=upcoming

[GGR]

You need to look under the car. If the car was repainted, some rust can have been repaired/masked. But the floor pan, an some specific areas as described in the link above, need to be looked at carefully. Rust is a huge issue on these cars and is expensive to fix.

Also, from the picture, there seem to be some frame fitted under the car, may be some kind of towing set-up?

[Essell]

Hello Bodyman

My thinking is that if you have a comprehensive quote for all of the mechanicals, ie, engine, gearbox,suspension etc, you would in all likelyhood, not purchase the car. Of course as with any love affair,price is no object.
Essell

[bodyman1977]

I have made my offer and am waiting to see if she accepts or not.  If she does, I will be taking it to a mechanic locally to see if they can give it a look over mechanically and I can get it on the lift to get a better look at the floors and the other high rust areas.  Speaking of mechanics, does anyone have a recommended classic MB mechanics in the Abilene TX area?  She is going to give me number for the mechanic/neighbor she had working on it to see what he has to say.  Sadly it does look like they were only maintaining it to keep it going, not to keep it in great shape.  I will go into the deal expecting to rebuild all mechanical items as this is an old car.  With any luck I will be able drive it for a year or so but will have to wait and see.  The frame under the back of he car is a tow hitch!  I had to ask her what the towed with the car and she stated they towed a sail boat in the 1970s with the car.  Bet that was something to see this car pulling a sail boat out of the lake!  Thanks again for all the advice and great resources.

[stickandrudderman]

I find the prospect that when the car was relatively young and although a nice car not precious, a young, stylish couple would hitch up their sailboat and go sailing absolutely charming!

[Rodolfo]

i would be interested inbuying  the towing bar

[Bonnyboy]

If you ever take the tow bar off I woul be interested in seeing how it attaches so I can make my own.  I would like to tow a viintage motorcycle with mine.