Author Topic: Finding the Red Car (Read 42952 times)

andyburns · « **on:** November 18, 2013, 19:41:58 »

Could it be? I have seen this factory photo a hundred times and the more I have learnt about it the more I wonder.... could this be my car? Up until recently I thought it was a long shot but I happened to stumble across the same photo in a very comprehensive pagoda history book while visiting a good friend who also has a 230sl. The book talked specifically about the photo and through the observable features of the car date it to early 64.

In common with mine is

1) the approximate date, mine being very early March 64
2) the car is RHD
3) the light cream interior
4) the exterior color

Given that very few RHD cars were made, approx 10% of the entire production run, and all these other factors I cannot help but wonder. I am sure the law of probability may be on my side. Wouldn't it be amazing.

I think if I could get someone to identify the color of the car in the photo as light red would even further narrow it down. 519 was an unusual color. I have never seen one in this color and the car was repainted in gold before my ownership so I have no reference. The car in the photo is not the usual signal red but a different shade I think. What do you guy recon?

Garry · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2013, 21:11:41 »

Looks like 568H to me.

andyburns · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2013, 21:43:52 »

Hi Garry, I contemplated that as well but think the red in the picture has more of an orange hue to it. I dont think the color chits on this site are necessarily 100% accurate as well. I took a photo of the only 'virgin' paint on my car under the instrument cluster cowel. It has never been exposed to UV and has the same reasonable high quality finish that the exterior probably bore when it was new. The color just doesn't look like the 519 chit on this site. I carefully took a series of photos of this paint before I covered it over and selected on photo which as accurately represented the color as possible. I have laid it along side the factory production photo for you to see what you think.

Garry · « **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2013, 21:52:13 »

Agree, I had some difficulty a few years ago with the colours that were in the Tech Manual and what appeared on your screen as they will differ depending on how you have your computer set up, brand, etc

It s a great thought it could be the same now. You need the date of the photo that would really narrow it down a lot.

Garry

114015 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2013, 01:36:42 »

Well Andy..., $:-\$

I guess no.
First of all you needed to find out the definite day of this photo and even better the car's VIN. "Early 1964" doesn't say much because that is between 2 Jan 1964 and 31 May 1964 or so...

However, "reading" your datacard provides more insight.

Does that 519 car on the factory pic has an aerial? Hard to see. Your car had since it was factory-equipped with a Becker unit (most likely Grand Prix or so).

But:
1) Your car was delivered with hard top (code 41-6); that's missing on the factory pic and that does not make sense if the car on the factory picture were yours.
2) Your car was delivered with whitewall tires (code 64-1) which the factory hubcap-less RHD car does not have
3) The factory car doesn't have a jump seat which your car has according to the data card (code 56-5).

So..., - sad to say so - but the car on the factory picture is clearly not your car. :'(

Sorry for the distressing news...

Achim

andyburns · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2013, 01:52:44 »

Aw Achim, I compliment you on your knowledge of the datacards. Masterful! Wouldn't it have been fantastic if you did discover you had something neat though.

getsmart · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2013, 03:29:41 »

Andy it looks like Signal Red to me, could it be mine ?
Everything else matches in color...or is the trim different ? hmmmm....
Date on my data card is 26 March 1964

Mine
Engine: 127981-20-002463
Transmission: 002566
568- Paint, Signal Red
119- Interior Trim, White-Grey MB-Tex
401- Single seats
461- Instruments, in English
525- 1 kg lacquer
551- Steering wheel, ivory-colored
619- Halogen lamp unit with high beam/low beam fog light
621- Export license plate (elimination of license plate molding)
681- Instruction manual in English
720- Folding top fabric, Black
329-Mode of packing VE IV
Front left axle- 033452
Front right axle- 033434
Rear axle- 002883
Steering box- 214383
Wheel- 5,5J x 14H
Tire- 185 x 14 Phonix

Rgds, Joe

andyburns · « **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2013, 04:42:46 »

Joe, why don't you post your data card up for the Achim to look at. He seems as if he has a fantastic eye for detail so may be able to help. Also as Garry pointed out it could very well be Signal Red. I think that given your car didn't ship with a hard top it even further enhances your chances. I don't think we will ever get an exact date or chassis number but I do agree your one is stacking up as a very strong contender.

Garry · « **Reply #8 on:** November 19, 2013, 04:52:11 »

Joe,, Show us your data card, it lists all the options that were fitted ex factory. I missed Andy's DC picture, was only looking at the Car

Garry

andyburns · « **Reply #9 on:** November 19, 2013, 05:06:08 »

Why dont we start up a new thread dedicated to finding this little red beauty. I think it would be interesting and would definitely make someones day if we were successful.

getsmart · « **Reply #10 on:** November 19, 2013, 21:49:06 »

Andy/Garry/Achim/Gents n gals, my data card, it would be fascinating to discover the identity of that car !

and a link to the paint codes for those interested

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/PaintCodes

Rgds, Joe

getsmart · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2013, 23:48:28 »

Here's my data card....I posted this earlier but it disappeared ? hmmmm....
Wouldn't it be fantastic to discover the history on that "signal red" pagoda !

Rgds, Joe

andyburns · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2013, 23:51:10 »

Hey Joe, I think Gary has spawned this thread and started a brand new topic just for finding the 'little read head'. If you go back to the general group you will find it at the top of the list. Garry can you please clean up the last couple of posts and keep this thread clean. I probably should have separated it to begin with. Cheers Andy

andyburns · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2013, 23:54:20 »

I think you have a jolly good show. I cant wait til Achim gets his mitts on this one for analysis!!! If we can track it down to your car Joe you owe me a beer. Make sure its a steinlarger none of that terrible xxxx

KevinC · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2013, 01:20:53 »

Keep in mind that data cards include key codes! If I were to post mine, I'd obliterate them.

Garry · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2013, 02:14:17 »

Kevin,

The car is an Australian car, in fact a local one near to me, I think I will go get some keys and nick it!! Probably would be impossible to get rid of the car and probably the spares without getting caught due to the rarity of them.

Bottom line, have never heard of this happening in this country. Some of our members have had cars/parts stolen in LA and elsewhere I believe. No doubt in twenty years we may get to be like USA, we seem to do so with everything else. Meanwhile, I must remember to lock the house up some times I am away!!!!!!!! My Pagoda is sitting in my shed 80 km away when I am not there with keys in the ignition as well

Garry

getsmart · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2013, 02:16:40 »

Haha I see that Garry HAS been at work ! Mystery solved !!! At least my disappearing posts mystery !!
Good luck stealing mine ! In a thousand bits with a completely stripped body !
But it is a good point and eventually I might pull the data card pic down but will wait for some responses..I could black out the key code info too...

Andy I'll be in Wellington in Feb perhaps I might have to drive up and buy you that beer ! And peek at your car whilst I'm there !!!

Rgds, Joe

andyburns · « **Reply #17 on:** November 20, 2013, 05:07:32 »

Joe if you fly up from Wellington I can pick you up at the airport in either my 108 or fingers crossed a newly commissioned 113. That beer sounds awesome.

Needless to say after you find out your little girl is actually the legendary 'factory photo red head maiden' you might not want to be seen in such lowly company

KevinC · « **Reply #18 on:** November 20, 2013, 14:45:41 »

Quote from: Garry on November 20, 2013, 02:14:17

Kevin,

The car is an Australian car, in fact a local one near to me, I think I will go get some keys and nick it!! Probably would be impossible to get rid of the car and probably the spares without getting caught due to the rarity of them.

Bottom line, have never heard of this happening in this country. Some of our members have had cars/parts stolen in LA and elsewhere I believe. No doubt in twenty years we may get to be like USA, we seem to do so with everything else. Meanwhile, I must remember to lock the house up some times I am away!!!!!!!! My Pagoda is sitting in my shed 80 km away when I am not there with keys in the ignition as well

Garry

Garry...you certainly brought me back down memory lane. Growing up in "the suburbs" in western Massachusetts I recall being in elementary school and not locking the doors to the house unless we were going to be away for en extended period. Fast forward to the 1990's, I had left my Pontiac 6000 in my parents' driveway overnight to borrow my dad's van, only to have it stolen and taken for a "joy ride" (thinking now who would get any joy out of riding in a Pontiac 6000...perhaps it was because it was an "LE").

How times have changed. And now when we leave our everyday car in a parking lot to go into a store, my wife always asks: "Did you lock it"?

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎ · « **Reply #19 on:** November 20, 2013, 15:50:26 »

Quote from: Garry on November 20, 2013, 02:14:17

Kevin,

Meanwhile, I must remember to lock the house up some times I am away!!!!!!!!

Garry

Garry,

This reminded me of 1984 when I spend almost 4 months on business in your fine country. I traveled with the President of a Perth Organization from Adelaide to Perth and he invited me for the weekend to his villa since our project was delayed. Anyway it was a Friday evening when we arrived at his home and he said that he and his family would be attending a Saturday wedding and I should make myself at home and take one of the cars to go sightseeing. When I ask him for the house keys he simply said "We never lock the house and you find the car keys over there"

I remember it well it was when the America's Cup was stolen that was won for the first time in 1983 by Australia. He also took me to the see the cup and the winning boat … oh how time flies It seams like it was only yesterday …

getsmart · « **Reply #20 on:** November 21, 2013, 21:57:55 »

Hi Andy and others....

Do you have the details of the books and publications of where that photo came from ? and you mentioned that the photo was accompanied by an early 1964 date ? and if anyone has any contacts within Mercedes or the clubs I might try do some further investigative work but it would be good to begin with some possible names on who to begin with. Perhaps I'd begin with the author of that comprehensive book that your friend mentioned....

Rgds, Joe

andyburns · « **Reply #21 on:** November 22, 2013, 18:08:57 »

Hey joe. I am down country at the moment. When I get home I will try and get the isbn number of the book for you. Give me a couple more days

getsmart · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2014, 13:09:30 »

Hi Andy,

I ended up contacting Daimler-Benz and I couldn't believe it I actually received an answer back. They said that the photo of that Red Pagoda coming off the production line was entered into the database in 1968 but they couldn't verify the identity of that car or the year of the photo itself. We're still emailing back and forth....

BUT !!

I started studying the picture more closely and in the top right hand corner of the windscreen is a number, which to me looks like the build nunber of the car. This is where it gets interesting. The numbers that I can make out are 2 26, can't make out the 2nd digit but checking with photoshop and altering contrast the 2nd digit appears to contain a vertical line. I think its a 7 which if so is the build number of my car, last 4 digits, 2726 !!! Could it really be mine ? Its becoming more likely....but I'm still suspicious so more checking needed !

The tyres on the car also appear to be thinner, 5.5" which also puts it in the 63/64 range....see thread http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=2133.0
Do you or anyone else think those tyres look like 5.5 rather than 6" ?

Anyone who knows any other cosmetic differences and can help identify this car as an early 1964 car please chime in here !
The chrome immediately behind the upholstered pad (part of the softop cover) is also an indicator for an early Pagoda from what I;ve read here.... but its hard to see that in the photo...

Joe

andyburns · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2014, 15:15:43 »

Joe, thats awesome news.

I am dead envious and wish like hell it was my car. Can you query the factory specifically on the numbers on the screen. If they confirm they are the production number then I am with you in being almost certain its yours. You could get them to go and check on all the other cars in the range ie 2716,36.46,56,66,76,86,96. Process of elimination with simple attributes like color would probably exclude all the other combinations.

If your right you can lay claim to a pretty awesome piece of factory history. I would be cranking up the investigation.

getsmart · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2014, 22:55:19 »

Hi Andy,

Have already asked about the numbers on the screen (are they the build number of the car) and am awaiting a reply and as for the the process of elimination I intend to ask the classic centre in the US if there are any other pagodas ending in "2x26" matching my data card.

I don't actually believe it myself even though I've been telling my kids its it !!! Being in engineering I'm looking for conclusive evidence or don't like to draw early conclusions !

But thanks to you if it is !

I see the engine cleanup is well on its way, won't be long now Andy ! Its been so cold here I don't want to even touch a piece of metal !

Cheers, Joe

News:

Author Topic: Finding the Red Car (Read 42952 times)

KevinC

KevinC