1967 250SL Tail Lights

[FloridaBill]

So during my resto.  My broken red tail lights were replaced with red and amber ones.  For some reason this has always bothered me but the amber ones were new and do look great but my question is when did the red/amber tail lights show up on the w113's.  I am not a true prurest where everything has to be original but does anyone know when red/amber showed up on the European models.  Hopefully 1967 Euro model had amber as well as red.

I am not wealthy enough to justify paying $800 for replicated lens to replace perfectly good new taillights lenss.  Just looking for the history on when the amers began to show up.  This is not a concours cars but it does have the Headlight notch and other original marks and the amber lens just does not look right although I am considering buying red replacement lens and re-coup some of my money by selling amber lens on ebay.
not the best picture of the whole lens I'll snap one later of the taillights with the red lens and amber mixed on one lens.



Thanks in advance for your replies.

[Jordan]

Bill, I could not find any mention of the tail lights specifically but I would guess the change occured in mid July '67 at chassis number 2980.  It was at this time that there were 297 different part changes to comply with new US safety standards, such as changing all that nice bright chrome to a matt finish and padding everything.  You don't mention if your car is a US or Euro version.  Hope that helps.

[FloridaBill]

This car was Euro version; Dad was stationed in Stuttgart Germany (Patch Army base) in the late 70's-early 80's. I have mentioned the story before but the short version is my dad was a gear head and semi-pro race car driver out of the Rock Hill/Charlotte NC area.  Got an offer from Shelby racing at one point but turned it down and became a fighter pilot (F4's).  While stationed in Germany he was looking to restore a Mercedes.  His Air force friend was in a high stakes poker game off base with many "shady" characters, one being a well known German gangster.  My dad's friend won the 250SL in the poker game!!!  I can only imagine what else was in the pot.

The winner knew my dad was looking to restore a car and ended up selling it to him.  I can remember spending many weekends handing him tools but was very young and did not know much about what he was doing except hand me the 19mm box wrench go get the 12mm socket
Etc.  We lived in Stuttgart for 4 years; talk about a great place to live and for him to restore an old Mercedes

If anyone knows of an old German gangster in the Stuttgart area who lost his 250SL playing poker in 1980 let him know it is still running strong.  During the full frame off restoration I performed recently we joked about finding a stash of Deutsche Marks in a side panel but no hidden booty was discovered.
I need to get the data card one day but will check the VIN and post it up to see if amber was correct but I guess since this was Euro version all Euro versions had red tail lights?

[jameshoward]

Bill,

I've lived and to a degree am still paying for the tail light dream in Europe. Your car being a 250, which seems to have come from Gangsta Europe, would have had red tail lights with orange indicators. It wouldn't have had, I think, (though it's late after a great party) the much more modern and cheaper 280 hideously nasty tail lights with the really obvious orange reflector; looking at the pic of your car, these are the ones it seems to have now. As you say, they were not original. But nor would it have had the all-red rear lights that were on the US cars of the era up to a point. Certainly (as in: certainly I may be right in suggesting that possibly it could be that...) European cars built after '65 (for the Germany and UK market) must have orange indicators, although the early orange ones suffice. I have original red ones - or rather had original red ones - on my car until it failed a road-worthiness test. I now have brand new early orange ones. And am all the poorer for it. I actually still have them. They're in a box, sadly, and not on my car.

I have pictures from a reliable German restoration company of the tail light evolution. The ones on your car look like the final version, although it's hard to tell from the photo. There is another amber indicator version between your model and the original red very early tail light. Perhaps these were put on the car when it was bought to the US? If you want the pics, drop me a line with your email and I'll send them to you.

Someone knowledgeable who hasn't been celebrating all evening will be along soon to correct the things I can't be bothered to look up but which I've learned in the past few months of trying to make my late 230 (from the US) road-legal in Germany/the UK.

Your car story sounds great. Nice boat, too.

[hkollan]

I am sure this has been discussed earlier , so using the search function might give some results.
As with US version there were also country specific versions in Europe. So to be specific about tail light changes for a Euro version
does not really makes much sense, as some w113 versions for some countries had early style amber and red taillights.

Assuming your car  is a German version it would have  had all red taillights as did all German delivery  250's and early 280's AFAIK..

Hans

[garymand]

My 250sl is early German with red.  # is about 2000

[W113SL]

The amber toalights were introduced soemtime mid 1969 on 280SL's.  I think they were mandated by the German Government.  That's why MB  Classic willll not reproduce the all red ones as they are illegal in germany.

I'll see if I can come up with the chassis number when the change was mandated.

Pete Lesler
W113SL

[inci]

    12/1967: One piece wheel-covers (like W 108/W 109 sedans).
    10/1968: US models with sealed beam headlights without fog lights.
    02/1969: New tail lights with amber turn signals.
    05/1969: ZF 5-speed manual transmission discontinued as listed option and available only on special request.
    07/1969: US models with headlight assembly with full amber lower section, illuminated side markers, transistorized ignition, and improved emission control.
    08/1969: Heated rear window for hardtop, hazard lights for all models, single master key for all locks.
    04/1970: Bosch Lichteinheit headlights optionally with halogen main beam (distinguished by "flat" instead of "bubble" lens).
    08/1970: Fuchs alloy wheels available as a factory-fitted option.
    11/1970: Opaque beige plastic coolant expansion tank (instead of satin-black steel). New door locks: cylinder can be depressed while door is locked.

[Raymond]

Inci,
From where did that list originate?  May I presume that those are 1st delivery dates?  280 construction began in October '67 with full wheel covers.  But within 2 months of an event 46 years ago is pretty accurate. 

[bogeyman]

Alfred:

My '69 - ser #008014 has the old style all red tail lights.
They look to be original - as far as I can tell?

[jameshoward]

Pete,
VIN 007938  on  7 Feb 1969 was the first one with orange turn signals on USA and Germany version cars.

Alfred,

I wonder whether this info and incl's list below refers to the early orange indicator lenses, or the later ones. What is certain is that UK cars had to have orange lenses from Sep 65. Not sure when Germany changed it's requirements, but I was led to believe it was around that time - give or take - by the TUV station over here; but i dont know for sure. There are both the early orange ones, which look like the US red ones but with an understated orange lens, and the later ones which are really, really orange. Perhaps that list refers to the very orange lenses, as the earlier ones were around in 67 I think. Did the red US ones continue into the 280s for the US market?

Where's Achim when you need him...?!!

Jamie

[66andBlue]

James and Rick,
my information comes from the Engelen book:
Änderungsliste nach Fahrgestellendnummer 1969

7855 04.02.69 Korrosionsschutzöl in Kühlwasser ganzjährig
7938 07.02.69 Neue Heckleuchten mit orangefarbenem Blinklicht
8347 26.02.69 Untere Querlenkermontage durch Sechskantschrauben mit erhöhtem Kopf

Thus far, I don't know of any mistakes in this book, but of course, nothing is impossible.
Yes, the early 280SL US cars do have the red/red lenses and my impression is - based on Engelen - that this changed with VIN 007938.

[FloridaBill]

Thanks for the replies the wiki pages had all the info
I need to do searches first because it was very informative
I have the new version amber but will be switching back to all red/red

[114015]

Taillights?    All-red taillights??   Other collectors around here?  

Where's Achim when you need him...?!!

Jamie

What the heck ....
... are you talking about?  

Well, Gentlemen,
basically all the info about taillights has been mentioned here, and this provides only little more insight than our very nice WIKI tech article on this topic.

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/TailLights

If we  talk about tail lights for the Pagoda it is not good but confusing to mention "all red" and later "amber" ones ...
... it is better to refer to the early style taillights (until 280 SL serial no. 007937, with its three subtypes) and later stype taillights (from 007938 onwards).

However, to put a bit more spice to this story I like to refer to one of Alfred's earlier posts in this thread:

http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=14298.0
reply # 16

I do not comment on that info anymore but just fully support what Alfred found out in "those were the days".

To make a long story short; the early style taillights (and here only the subgroup of the "all-red ones") were used for US cars a bit longer than for the rest-of-the-world (until VIN 011040).

As to Jamie's main concern when the red-orange early style taillights with amber turnsignal section became mandatory in the UK, I just don't know.
This info is neither included in any of the common parts catalogues, nor in the both Engelen versions (1991, 2013)  but most likely hidden somewhere in the requirements of the country-specific ordering code that was on the data card (622 for England if I am correct here)...
... and those country-specific requirements might have changed over the years, maybe from 1964 to 1965 or so in this particular case...

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/OptionCodes

My 2 cents ...:
If you have a (decent) set of all-red taillights - keep them! Polish the lens in and out, resilver the mirror if necessary, repair hairline cracks with Palavit G or a similar epoxy resin and then the lens will look like absolutely brand new.
If you need early taillights with amber turnsignal section (the Italian style taillights) get a second set, perhaps with the appropriate reproduction lenses. But keep your originals untouched. They never make 'em anymore.

Good luck to all you other "early taillight" connoisseurs,
 

Achim
(not interested in the W113 per se but W113 early-style taillight collector)

[66andBlue]

Hi Achim,
thanks for reminding me about my own posts, I had forgotten about the info in the US spare parts list! Alzheimers ?  
I corrected my earlier reply here.