Author Topic: Possible better 0-60 time?  (Read 36285 times)

ja17

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2013, 03:13:09 »
Louie,  your need for better performance is not just your youth. At our event in Williamsburg last September, three pagodas showed up with Mercedes V-8 engines installed!
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

mmizesko

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2013, 10:14:09 »
Wow, I go away for a day and look what happens.

Louie, As you can see, there are lots of opinions and experiences out there.  But with all the folks who commented, I bet there are 300+ years of Pagoda experience, and these guys have torn apart and optimized dozens if not hundreds of these special cars.

I think we all quietly admire your youthful zeal, but have worries about that low mileage gem you have.  I can tell you love this car, and respect its legacy and heritage.  I would tend to echo GGR's comments about treating your museum piece with kid gloves (pardon the pun).

My guess is that everyone reading your posts remember their own teen years and how nutty we were with our own cars (1972 Challenger) and sudden flashbacks for the safety of the car (and you of course) result in anxiety.

As I continue to say, treat her right (and your girlfriend too).

Mike Mizesko
Columbus, OH
1970 280SL 291H Dark Olive

Ulf

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2013, 10:53:33 »
It's not a matter of how fast to 60 mph, but how - I had a slightly tuned Triumph TR6 (P.I. uprated to 165 bhp) and that was FAST, even surprised a few very hot hatches from time to time, but what I mostly enjoy with my 230 SL is the comfort, build quality and that it actually can go pretty fast when needed without shouting about it. But I must admit that stuff like top speed and acceleration also were important to me when I was younger and that I still - although I'm now in my 40'ies - can totally relate to the post starting this thread :-)

U
1965 230 SL in silver (DB180)
1982 Land Rover Series III SWB
2008 Jaguar XF 3.0
2005 Mini Cooper

Benz Dr.

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2013, 16:47:33 »
A few years after we started this site, we had quite a few posts that dealt with modifying 113's. At the time, we had everything in a general  forum so I asked that we provide a seperate forum for people to talk about modifications. I thought R&D would be a good name and it's been with us ever since.

There have been many posts concerning mods done on our cars. My own car is heavily modified using 100% vintage parts so I'm not gainst the idea. One of the better mods out there is the 3 litre engine using offset crank throws. Looks stock on the outside but far from it on the inside. 
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Khurram Darugar

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2013, 16:57:53 »
Not sure why everyones getting so hyper sensitive over this thread.

This thread and his subsequent posts do not enquire about modding, just simple query about above average acceleration times.

Its his flippin car, so whats up with the WTF?  If youre desperate to wax a low mileage minter go out and buy one for yourself.  

Joes advice is sound, have fun with youre car make sure anything you do is easily reversable.  I guaruntee not everything you think is a great idea now will be really youre cup of tea in a few years.

And above all continue to share the passion that youre old man had.  Some of these old timers need higher octane in their tanks -;)
Kay
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 17:03:23 by SilverSL »

thelews

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2013, 17:48:02 »
Louie, you're dealing with a "seasoned" crowd here.  Too many members only push their cars when they run out of Metamucil and have to hit the nearest Walgreens.

Enjoy your car as you please and share any tips on performance, please.

The only WTF I ever have is in response to how emotional some folks can get over a hunk of metal.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 17:52:03 by thelews »
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

Bonnyboy

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2013, 19:37:26 »
I feel I need to explain my comments.  My WTF response was given at the end of a long day and probably not in the same vain or for the same reasons as it came out.   A 280sl doing 7.3 seconds?

Louie noted that his car would do 0-60 in 7.3 seconds and he wants to make it faster.  My experience since I got my car and reading reviews before I got my car suggested 0-60 times in the 9 to 10 second time depending on who was driving, if it was their own car and who wrote the piece.  I won't get into barometric pressure, ambient temperatures or tire temperatures and pressure but a 1974 911 Carrera has a posted 0-60 time of 7.4 seconds.

To have a 0-60 time of 7.3 for a 1971 automobbile suggests to me that the car has probably already has some work done and is probably already as fast as its going to get without some more serious engine work ($$) and lightening (dropping the passenger seat, soft top, spare wheel come to mind) the 3,000 or so lbs of weight we carry around to make it easier on the little straight 6 used to power our toys.  We are already at a 9.5:1 compression ratio +/- so without some serious work I couldn't see the numbers dropping past an already scorching 7.3.









 
Ian
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73 CB750K
75 MGB
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49er

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2013, 21:06:39 »
 Now a days, I am one of those go slow and enjoy the ride guys. In my (and my car's) younger day it was another story and the SL was no slouch, compared to most of the domestic stuff on the road (excluding "muscle cars":-). Here is page out of a 1965 Car and Driver magazine when they did a road test on a 230SL, Zero to 60mph = 9.9 sec. Interesting to see how they graded things from poor to excellent on the right side bar.

John

Sorry the image is so poor in quality. My scanned image is much clearer?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 00:06:34 by 49er »
1969 280SL 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 77217 miles
7280 miles since awoken from her 20+ yr "nap" in 2010

Louiehenry

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2013, 21:41:36 »
No! I never had any intention of long any faster! I don't race around in that car for anything! I was just on a straight, and thought "what the heck, why not?"
I too, like many of you, lean back, and go where the road takes me!

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2013, 23:50:24 »
Hi John,

I feel like you do (going slower now a days). Let's just say the 60 (mph) is the new 30's (mph) …. 3.1 Seconds wow to 30 mph better then my former ///M3 ~grin~

I think we need to use our Pagoda for what it was designed. We have to keep in mind if someone likes to make his Pagoda faster, he can do it only problem is he/she needs to make many other things stronger as well. Like stronger suspension, bigger brakes, wider tires, stiffen the frame etc. The BMW ///M Division boys know how to do all that, they take a standard 3 Series then change 50 % of the parts and modify 80% of the rest so it can go faster :) not cheap this is by any means, however, it has been done and the Pagoda is a great car one way or the other.
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

garymand

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2013, 19:41:21 »
49er, thanks for the 230 data.  You have owned both a 250 and 280, which was faster?  I drove a few dozen SF bay area SLs in 1970 trying to feel the differences in the 3 motor sizes.  I can understand the 10s 0-60 for the 230.  One test I did was 50MPH in top gear (both autos and sticks) up a steep 1/4 mile hill.  I had to down shift the 230's but not the 250 or 280.  I didn't buy a W113 for looks, I bought it because it was as fast as a 283 corvette but not made out of cracking plastic.  My 2nd qualifier was strength.  The suspension and drive train are built to last, take a beating, and probably take 50% more HP and torque than a 2.8 can dish out.

I bought a 250 because it was faster than the 230's I found to drive.  The 280's seemed a little faster than the 250, but I couldm't find a nce one for under $5200.  The 250 was $4200 and all I could aford as a college student.  I used to race Spitfires and got totally frustrated with how weak they are.  My 1st MB was a 190SL but it would do fast.  And the pedals go down like a 40 Ford!

I know I'm outnumbered both on the 230 opinion and how hard I drive my SL, but I've never broken anything and much of the mechanicals are still original.  I couldn't do that with an E-jag, Ferrari, or Corvette.  I would have had to replace all the ball joints, tie rod ends, wheel bearings, U-joints, clutches, water pumps maybe twice over.  And to pull a clutch on a Jag or buy parts for a ferrari, I don't have the time or $$.  Yes, I have a very fast 944 Turbo S, but it breaks all the time. I would never attempt to drive accross the US on I80 with the Porsche, W113 no problem.

The published spec of 0-60 in 10sec has always bugged me.  My 250 was faster and now with a 280- motor it is faster yet.  I didn't buy this car to go slow and I really don't enjoy going slow in it.  And, my SL is very accomodating, there aren't many cars I pass on my daily commute that can successfully challenge its quickness. 

So tolerance guys.  We all love the car, but not for the same reasons or opinions.  I don't mind if you drive your SL slow, just don't do it in the fast lane, please.
Gary
Early 250SL German version owned since 71, C320, R350, 89 Porsche 944 Turbo S

thelews

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2013, 22:22:51 »
Previous owner of my car drove it 375 miles in 4 hours.  To think these cars need to be babied is rubbish.  They're tough, they're meant to rev high and they love it.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE
1971 Alfa Romeo GTV 1750

Louiehenry

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2013, 05:18:18 »
I won't deny, I drive it harder than most, but lets look at the history here!
The W113 was born in an age that is not likely to be seen again in our life times. Racing was bigger, teens weren't as concerned with their phones and their social media, it simply didn't exist. And most adults didn't have the same thig to worry about, interestingly enough, most adults tend to worry most about their teenagers! But gas was cheaper and roads were better. People drove more, and they drove not simply to get from point A to point B. For them, the driving was the point. The inline engine we have pushing our pagodas down the road, when you get down to the basics, the same found in the famous 300sl, and continued to be found in Mercedes well into the 80s. Clearly the engine was built right, as was the rest of the car! I know a man, he's a judge in my town, who drives a 1966 dark green beauty of a 280, with 653 k on the clock. If I open the good of my dads C36 AMG, the engine is so similar, you couldn't deny the origins. To think this car is a small car, that needs to be babies everywhere, is simply ludicrous, and is unfair to the car. The most unfair thing you can do to a car, is let it sit in a box, or only use it in stop and go traffic. Engines have to breathe, and open up well. Our SLs sound best at 3000 rpm, because that's when those long tubes start filling with air, and the car really gets to do what it was intended for. To be a golden arrow, beaming through the woods at dusk, or to be a red dot, rolling along the beautiful scenic highways so often avoided by other drivers, to be the strongest, loveliest, all around best looking, and feeling car on the road. Whether you're counting miles at 500k or 9000. If you don't ever take it out and just cruise like it was intended to, you should. I think you'll see what the rest of us have been saying for years. If not, that's alright, no one will disapprove or judge simply because you like to take your time and really see the views. I do too, a lot. But I can't find a ride out there that beats a w113 when it comes to having fun at an speed, on any road.

mmizesko

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2013, 10:41:24 »
Louie,

Wow.

I wish I had your gift of romantic prose when I was 17.

Here's the deal.  Almost all of the folks in this forum like to drive fast.  Some have them have even buried the needle on this and other cars (I plead the 5th).  I think you met with skepticism about the 7.3 secs 0-60 based on PUBLISHED data on the vehicle and peoples DIRECT experience.  There is no doubt that the 113 likes to rev high and runs better when you give it road time and open it up.

Here's some more fun facts:  A car that has 200,000 miles on it is worth less than a car with 20,000 miles on it.  Probably 3/4 less.  A car that is on the road more has a statistically higher chance of being run into by idiots, deer, or other hazards.  Same is true for driving at 80mph vs 40mph.  Response time is response time.  Cars that are hacked up and not original are also worth less than "correct" vehicles.  That's why we spend so much time talking about clamps on this site, for goodness sake.

Nobody really cares if you want to replicate the Richard Gere scene in "Intersection", or if you want the car as a daily driver.  They just are transferring their own experience, knowledge, and hopes and dreams into a 17 year old with a 10k car.  I think I personally would be thrilled to have a pristine version of my car sell at a Barrett Jackson auction for $180,000 (after I'm dead of course). If you have lots of money now, or will have in the future, go ahead and put a blower on it.  I won't judge you (verbally, at least).

I don't believe that the Pagoda needs to be babied.  But babied cars need less maintenance and are worth much more as an asset.

So folks, can we stop this nonsense about youthful drivers vs. us old geezers and driving 90mph vs 30 mph?

It's your car.  Have at it.  And I'll stop giving a hoot and offering unsolicited advice (although to be fair, you did solicit advice).  There are other pristine 113's we can fantasize about.

Mike Mizesko
Columbus, OH



1970 280SL 291H Dark Olive

Louiehenry

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2013, 15:42:04 »
Solicit I did! An thank you for your advice!

Raymond

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2013, 14:08:12 »
You can't use a GPS for 0-60.  The speed displayed is calculated over time and will lag behind acceleration.  Given that our speedos are mechanically driven, if you determine that your speedo is accurate at 60 mph, it should not lag.  If you really want to track acceleration get a radar gun (or find a cooperative police officer). 
Ray
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mdsalemi

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Michael Salemi
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Rolf-Dieter ✝︎

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2013, 15:25:48 »
Nice find Michael, thanks for sharing the GPS write up!
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

jameshoward

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2013, 16:48:14 »
Hmmm. There's a lot of nonsense in that GPS thread, especially the posts about the accuracy of GPS, which is eye-wateringly accurate if you have the right equipment to measure deviation. To suggest, as some posters did in that thread, that GPS is accurate only to 5 meters is the modern day equivalent of "a miss is as good as a mile." (Unless you're a USAF A10 driver, in which case, any old target will do... ::))

GPS can measure minuscule differences if required. However, I accept fully that commercial off the shelf systems probably cannot deliver a great deal of accuracy, but nor are they required to. Having been geo-caching today with my 5 year old, I'd have been very glad of 5 meters accuracy. Could find a bloody thing!!

(BTW, this isn't supposed to be a thrown-gauntlet to those who wish to dive in and have a dig at what I've said about GPS and produce internet threads to the contrary. Trust me - we'd be in an even worse place militarily than we are already if GPS could only do 5 m, or 5 cm for that matter. I'd say that using GPS to measure a car's speed is the best mere mortals will get, and so if the 0-60 time is measured using GPS, it's probably going to be far more accurate than a speedo, or for that matter, a member of the Old Bill with a radar gun - if you want to look at easy to flaw methods of measuring speed that would be a more sensible place to start...).

« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 16:53:27 by jameshoward »
James Howard
1966 LHD 230SL

Larry & Norma

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2013, 17:18:35 »
That's good to know Jamie as my speedo agrees with my sat nav. Which is more than I can say for my more modern cars.
I assume that is why built in sat navs do not have the speed function as most speedo's over read, I think to reduce arguments
with Mr. Plod.
Larry Hall (Gnuface)
2023 Ioniq6
2005 C230
1970 280SL

Louiehenry

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2013, 18:47:28 »
No I have an app called HUDapp, it measures speed accurately

66andBlue

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2013, 19:31:17 »
'Accurately'? How do you know?
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
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Garry

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2013, 22:29:28 »
Louiehenry,

How about some photos of your <10k Pagoda that can do 0-60 in 7.3 seconds.  Its gota be like new and such a rarity that a lot of folks would love to see photos to compare so can you post some photos in the Photo area of the Forum for us.

Garry
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Louiehenry

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2013, 23:13:12 »
Quite simply put my friend, I measured it against a number of different speedometers, and because they all matched, I concluded that the app was in fact, accurate.

66andBlue

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Re: Possible better 0-60 time?
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2013, 02:57:53 »
So lets be clear here about what you mean with "and because they all matched, I concluded that the app was in fact, accurate".
Your HUD displays 60 mph = 60 mph speed reading on speedo #1 = 60 mph speed reading on speedo #2 = 60 mph speed reading on speedo #3 .. and so on, all speedos you tested (how many?) matched the HUD.
Now that would mean that all your speedos are also reading your car's speed correctly and there is no deviation among them.
Absolutely amazing the kind of luck you had getting these perfectly matched speedos together!  

Does your speedo accuracy also include the odometer reading on your car?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 03:55:34 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)