Possible better 0-60 time?

[Louiehenry]

I decided yesterday, I would try to hit 60 from stop in the fastest amount of time. I am 100% sure, after Checking three times, each time using multiple timers, that my best was 7.3 and my worst 8.8.
I have not hanged anything on the engine, I use 97 octane shell, and 97 octane Exxon, depending on when I need gas, as there are two stations along my daily route, and I like to get it going to or from class
Once a month, I fill it with non ethanol gas.
I haven't changed the engine in any way, and it's the factory 4 speed.
Tires are Michelin. Standard size
The back was weighted down well, I always keep a few sandbags in a net, as well as a set of tools that I've found are handy, jumper cables and a box, and a little survival bag
Could the weight have been a factor?

[Flyair]

Questions:
1. What was the road inclination?
2. The wind velocity?
3. Have you eaten (or otherwise...) in between?

[Benz Dr.]

Those times are considerably faster than what they should be. Pagodas are more in the 10 second range which is fast enough that you feel some performance. If you are only using your speedo as a guide to measure when you hit 60 MPH you could be a long ways off in terms of getting all of your data right.
Try a GPS or something similar to verify your findings. Or, you could one of the fastest 113's on the block.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

For the time they were build or should I say came out first in 1963 the Pagoda was faster then the Corvette … think about that

My past M3 (2011) was 4.2 seconds to 100 KM/Hr … 

[Louiehenry]

I checked using a independent GPS, and the tachometer, and they all registered equally!
I hit those shift points perfectly though!

[Louiehenry]

I had a slight tailwind, a flat road, Tarmac, new tires.

[iftykhan]

Louie

Was that 60mph or km?
That does seem very quick.

Ifty

[bsimaz]

Weight should really not be a factor.   The increase traction you get is offset by the inertia of the now heaver vehicle.

[Rodolfo]

I doubt those physics

[Louiehenry]

Mph, I'm sure of it

[Rodolfo]

I would load the vehicle further, until it passes an empty AMG on acceleration ;-)

[Louiehenry]

Haha, no I meant, that sense the weight was in back, the back end was down, making the tires stay down better, and less likely to lose traction.

[Bonnyboy]

Mr. Louiehenry,   WHY?

Reading your post makes me say WTF.

Unless you are a teenager with loads of disposable income, I can't think of why you would want to try to increase 0-60 times.  Things will break.  The Pagoda isn't a real sports car, isn't particularly light, doesn't even have a good power to weight ratio and is way too comfortable to consider breaking any records.   Of all of the owners that I know and the hours of conversing about our cars, the 0-60 time has not come up once.  Pagodas can get out of their own way around town and on the highway but you shouldn't expect to win any races at the 1/4 mile.   My buddy's Chevy II with a V8 is about the same weight as my Pagoda.

 I think you are missing the point with what the Pagoda was designed for if you are looking to hot rod it using stock parts.   Other than the Euro car with a hotter cam and compression ratio (I may be wrong on that too) I have never heard of serious perrformance mods - maybe you have a euro car if it has a 4spd with a high rear end.   check the archives, there are a few members who have done amazing upgrades to their cars but they are not stock anymore.

If you are looking for crazy performance, a Tiger or an older muscle car should fit the need but a Pagoda just isn't built that way.   Heck,  my MGB with a chev V8 was nutz in a straight line but the character was lost which was very evident when you came up to a corner. 

Good luck though - my hats off to you if you have the wherewithall to hotrod one of these keeping a stock drive train.

[Louiehenry]

I wasn't trying to hot rod at all. I wouldn't ever treat my SL as though it was a race car, I simply thought that almost 10 seconds was a long time considering my 4 cyl turbodiesel 1986 isuzu trooper, which weighs more and has the aerodynamics of a brick, has a lower time. I am not a teenager with disposable income. I am a teen, yes, but I work for every dime I have, and If I screw it up, I'll work my butt off until I get the money for a part, and I will do the work of fixing the car myself. There is no such thing as disposable income. 
Maybe my timers were off, maybe I read wrong, all I know is what I saw and what my buddy told me.

[ja17]

Hello Louie,

These cars were fairly fast for their day. By today's standards they are average performers. The build quality, materials, engineering, and drivabiltiy are outstanding  even today.

As you look back years from now, you will fondly remember the cars which you used the most, and lived with from day to day. It is good that you appreciate it and take enough interest in it to help maintain it yourself.

In 1966 a  1955  190-SL as my daily driver when I was 16 years old.  It was nothing  excessive or expensive back in those days.  I dreamed of more acceleration as friends drove fast American Muscle Cars. (190SL 0-60mph in 14.5 seconds) Eventually I realized the car was special for other than speed. Besides that the girls loved that pretty little Mercedes!  I must admit that I made some youthful modifications, like white lettered, wide tires. Eventually I became a good skilled driver, and successfully competed in club autocross events with my under-powered 190-SL. It had well over 200,000 miles on it when I finally sold it after nearly 40 years of ownership. Use it, enjoy it, you'll have a lot of fond memories too. If you make modifications make them easy to change back. Your taste will change as you grow older and  you may wish to change back.

[GGR]

Mr. Louiehenry,   WHY?

Reading your post makes me say WTF.

Unless you are a teenager with loads of disposable income, I can't think of why you would want to try to increase 0-60 times.  Things will break.  The Pagoda isn't a real sports car, isn't particularly light, doesn't even have a good power to weight ratio and is way too comfortable to consider breaking any records.   Of all of the owners that I know and the hours of conversing about our cars, the 0-60 time has not come up once.  Pagodas can get out of their own way around town and on the highway but you shouldn't expect to win any races at the 1/4 mile.   My buddy's Chevy II with a V8 is about the same weight as my Pagoda.

 I think you are missing the point with what the Pagoda was designed for if you are looking to hot rod it using stock parts.   Other than the Euro car with a hotter cam and compression ratio (I may be wrong on that too) I have never heard of serious perrformance mods - maybe you have a euro car if it has a 4spd with a high rear end.   check the archives, there are a few members who have done amazing upgrades to their cars but they are not stock anymore.

If you are looking for crazy performance, a Tiger or an older muscle car should fit the need but a Pagoda just isn't built that way.   Heck,  my MGB with a chev V8 was nutz in a straight line but the character was lost which was very evident when you came up to a corner. 

Good luck though - my hats off to you if you have the wherewithall to hotrod one of these keeping a stock drive train.

Well well well... Let's not forget that the Pagoda came as a replacement for the 190SL and ... the 300SL! Mercedes has been involved in racing since day 1 and the Pagoda itself won the Liege-Sofia-Liege rallye. Its sibling the W111 with which it shares overall chassis design and many mechanical elements, got some excellent results in many races, like the Monte-Carlo rallye. Today, enthousiasts prize the Pagoda's build quality and overall refinement, which is legitimate, but seem to dissociate the car from any performance oriented objective. They even tend to consider that idea as blasphemus. I think this is a distortion of the original spirit in which the car was developed. Though not as exclusive and performance oriented as the 300SL, I think it wasn't developed out of any sporting spirit either. The way the Pagoda is being seen today by the majority of car enthousiasts is more of a social thing I guess, where people in search of a refined and quality image go to Mercedes, those in search of a performance image go to BMW and Porsche. In terms of image, if you really have money you get an Aston Martin DB5 and you have it all.

Back to nuts and bolts, I think there is nothing wrong in trying to get a Pagoda perform better. There are many ways of doing it. In the case of Louie, I would just encourage him to do it with another Pagoda, as the one he is driving now seems to be quite special due to it's very low mileage. That very car should be kept original with a low mileage. He started another thread with the idea of developing his dream Pagoda, sourcing another car for that. That's the way to go. However, if he wants to get involved into some heavy performance modifications, he may consider another make, like Porsche, BMW or Alfa Romeo for example. Not that the Pagoda can't be upgraded (heck, I stuffed a 560 engine into one!), but more because of the social dimension I was referring to above. He may find more support in other enthousiast groups, with more experience to be shared in terms of performance upgrades and a better availability of performance parts.

In any case, it is nice to see younger people  like Louie interested in Pagodas. Just don't drive it too much, keep it safe, and come to the next gathering in Blacklick where you will meet with all the Pagoda Gurus who will tell you all the secrets about this nice car you own.

[W113SL]

A euro engined 280SL with the 09 cam is a much better performer than the US version.  I belive if properly tuned it could maccelerate to 60 MH in less than 9 seconds easily, but not 7.3 seconds.  Most of the contemporary road test of the era were conducted with two passengers up and a full tank of fuel.

I had a modifed for reacing 230SL with a sharply tuned euro 2.8 motor and I could do the 1/4 mile in 15.5 seonds,  That should equate to under 8 seconds to 60.  But the car had  gone on a weight reduction plan that dropped about 200 pounds from stock.

I was more interested in reliability aand handling, so the horsep[ower was jujsta little more than stock.

Pete Lesler
W113SL

[garymand]

Mr. Louiehenry,   WHY?

Reading your post makes me say WTF.

Unless you are a teenager with loads of disposable income, I can't think of why you would want to try to increase 0-60 times.  Things will break.  The Pagoda isn't a real sports car, isn't particularly light, doesn't even have a good power to weight ratio and is way too comfortable to consider breaking any records.   Of all of the owners that I know and the hours of conversing about our cars, the 0-60 time has not come up once.  Pagodas can get out of their own way around town and on the highway but you shouldn't expect to win any races at the 1/4 mile.   My buddy's Chevy II with a V8 is about the same weight as my Pagoda.

 I think you are missing the point with what the Pagoda was designed for if you are looking to hot rod it using stock parts.   Other than the Euro car with a hotter cam and compression ratio (I may be wrong on that too) I have never heard of serious perrformance mods - maybe you have a euro car if it has a 4 spd with a high rear end.   check the archives, there are a few members who have done amazing upgrades to their cars but they are not stock anymore.

If you are looking for crazy performance, a Tiger or an older muscle car should fit the need but a Pagoda just isn't built that way.   Heck,  my MGB with a chev V8 was nutz in a straight line but the character was lost which was very evident when you came up to a corner. 

Good luck though - my hats off to you if you have the wherewithall to hotrod one of these keeping a stock drive train.

Wow this is great thread! We get to hear from the folks who like to drive slow.  WTF? Pagoda's aren't true sports cars?  A Miata is a sports car. Triumpths & MG's are sports car.  I bought my 250 because it was faster than most Porches at the time and as much fun as an E-Jag.   And best of all, it wasn't made of plastic.  0-60 in 8.8 is no burner, you missed the point!  0-60 in 10.3 is not a fair number for a well tuned 250 or 280, maybe a 230 I'll give you.  I've often wondered why these cars were rated at more than 10 at 0-60 when mine 'feels' below 9.

"serious perrformance mods"??  You think 0-60 in 8.8 is serious performance?  Are you thnking 4.5 0-60?  And, how many horses would it take to start breaking these drive trains?  300?  400?  But who brought up hotrodding? Why go radical on us? We are talking a stock pagoda!  Maybe a little over 200 HP if running perfectly well?   With all the threads on changing gears and tranny's, don't you think a good 0-60 can be had with these really low rearends and deep first gears?  But I agree with you that to put a v8 in an MGB is nuts.

[Bonnyboy]

OOPS  I think I opened a can of worms.   Wasn't intentional.   What is a true sports car anyways???  I guess I have been driving my friend's 65 hotrod Vette a bit too much lately.  My pagoda can get out of its own way and I push it when ever possible but in a careful way.  Its more than enough car for my limited driving ability but its definately not on the same level as my friend's 65 Vette.

Having experience upgrading performance only on a chev engine and then my MGB I found that even marginal increases in horsepower and speed required lots of $$ - replace the cam, then the head needs work, then the headers come along and then ignition and fuel delivery and pistons and on and on.   I could order hipo parts off the shelf for both my chev and MGB engines but I just don't see too much of that equipment for my pagoda.   By the time I matured a bit I was into BMW 2002s and found that I could get the biggest bang for my buck staying relatively stock and lightening the load where possible.   Now with my pagoda I am trying to stay stock. 

 

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

………………………. keep it safe, and come to the next gathering in Blacklick where you will meet with all the Pagoda Gurus who will tell you all the secrets about this nice car you own.

GGR … does anyone know when Joe will hold the next gathering in Blacklick? …. looking forward to it

[Louiehenry]

Clearly, this is a divisive issue to many people...
Anyway, I wasn't trying to be a racer in my pagoda, trust me
I know my limits, and those of the machine, that's what matters.

[Garry]

Pagoda University Blacklick PUB, was held every two years but was held at Joe Alexanders' own home so entirely up to Joe if he is happy to run another. 2007 2009, 2011 2013 (50th  elsewhere) 2015.  Euro gathering every other year.  Meanwhile we have held the 50th in US, AUST and Europe in 2013 so that has moved things around a bit.

As we continue to say to our members you are free to organise a gathering anywhere you wish using the facilities of this site to organise and plan and advertise your gathering. Once the new incorporation and Board are elected in the New Year then more support may be given.

[jameshoward]

0-60 in 10.3 is not a fair number for a well tuned 250 or 280, maybe a 230 I'll give you.

Oh, please....

Given the age of our cars, as you sort of point out, it's entirely down to the way they're tuned and maintained. Thus a decent 230 manual will eat a 250 or 280's sandwiches all week long! Gotta to know your shite before dissing the 230, Gary!  

I'll race ya!!

And Roldofo's post had me in stitches. Best I've read in a while. (Although, by way of a disclaimer, we Brits cannot condone sarcasm in any way, shape or form, not even this close to Christmas).

[GGR]

And Roldofo's post had me in stitches. Best I've read in a while.

Yes, Rodolfo's post is excellent!

Allleiiii, encore une p'tite enclume dans c'coffre, les Ferraris n'ont qu'à bien se tenir !

[garymand]

Sorry guys, I know I'm out numbered here.  Just poking a little fun.    and wondering why a car that can keep up with a 283 225 HP corvette (and yes thee were a few with more and a few with less HP), why would you not consider an SL a sports car???

I'm probably overly big on how well these cars move for only having 200 HP.  And, Im also glad there is no aftermarket hotrodding stuff to glue on these motors to ruin them like many many Corvettes have been ruined.