a clip on the right drive shaft of a 66 230sl ?

[Rodolfo]

I need some assistance: I am busy changing the bearings of the rear wheels. I removed the drum brakes, etc and managed to pull out the axle of the left side. Now I am busy on the right side (which actually makes the noise). I read that there are some with a clip. Is a 230 sl from 66 with that clip? I have more resistance on the right axle, so maybe there is a clip?

I really would appreciate the assurance there is no clip before I use more force for pulling out the right axle.

best regards, Rudy

[jameshoward]

I have a late '66 230. No circlip. There is a lot of info on the site about this job and Joes excellent rear wheel bearing tour. They can take a bit of effort to get out;sledge hammer and a decent piece of steel across the axle half; lots of pics on the site.

If you're really concerned that you may have a replacement axle with a clip, you could jack from the end of the axle tube to get it horizontal. You may have to have some sit in the boot to give you some extra weight when jacking. Just make sure the weight of the car is supported properly elsewhere on stands.

Take a look at your brake hoses whilst you're there. If they're more than 6 years or so old it would be a good time to change them.

[George Des]

I've dismantled two of these with drum brakes and they did not have th circlip. I think it is a safe bet that if yours had not been tampered with that it i without as well

[Rodolfo]

Thank you all, guys.

Tomorrow I will give it a try with a threaded rod for pulling. Joe's tour explanation is great.

To be continued,

Rudy

[Rodolfo]

Ok, I have some threaded rods ready for the pulling job.

Should the (rightside) axle be horizontal to begin extracting the inner axle, or it doesnt't matter?

best regards, Rudy

[Rodolfo]

The good news is: I have the right axle out as well.The bearings seem ok. I will change them of course, now that both axles are out.

Bad news:

When I let the engine run, in fourth gear (still with axles out, and of course almost no oil in the diiferential) I have still the intermittent grinding noise.

It seems on the right side of the differential.Are there any bearing for the pivotting right axle which it could be?
Anybody has a technical drawing of that area of differential and the pivotting axle? I am a mechanical engineer, so that drawing and cross sections would be very helpfull.

Or any other suggestions?

best regards, Rudy

[jameshoward]

I'm not a mechanical engineer, but the prospect of running the car without the axle halves in seems unwise. First, there's universal coupling that joins the axle half to the diff that would seem to be flapping around inside the axle tube, and that seems to me to be a really bad thing to do, and second, you'd be running it without oil. I assume you have the car supported on stands towards the outer ends of the axle tubes. If you run the car in gear with the axle tubes hanging down, you're bound to get some noise since the car isn't designed to operate at such an extreme angle.

Now that you've cracked the secret of getting the axle halves out, I would have thought that the next move is to replace the axle halves and seals, repack the bearings with the correct MB grease and reassemble having filled the diff with new oil (with the axle tubes level) and see how it runs then. I would have thought that the odds are in your favour that the problem has gone away. Worst case, you strip it again and go to the next level of fault finding. The only cost in this instance would be some oil and a bit of your time (and you could reuse the oil).

[George Des]

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with the above post. From what you described that universal slip joint would surely been flopping around inside that axle tube. You'd be wise to do as suggested and button things back up to see if the noise is gone.

[Rodolfo]

The car is actually on jack stands under the outer axles, to avoid the axles hanging down far. The axles are a bit out (since it is not standing on its wheels, buut on jack stands which are closer to the middle of the car), but not at all completely.

[jameshoward]

That might account for the rumbling, ie if the angle is greater than that which the axle might normally operate. I ran my car with the axles hanging for a specific reason and there was a rumble and - obviously - vibration that wasn't present when the car was sitting properly.

[Rodolfo]

James,

what I try to say is that the rumble while I was driving slowly was the reason why I started the work on the axle in the first place, since I thought that it was caused by the bearings. So rumble in normal because driving and oil filled in the differential.

Now it is still there, although it cannot be the bearings of the axles, since they are out. And the outer axles are not very far out, since they are on the jack stands, not the car body.

So I still have the rumble like when  I started with, knowing now it cannot be the wheel bearings. That is the problem.

So, I really don't know what next to do.

best regards, Rudy

[Rodolfo]

I mean of course:

 So rumble in normal situation as well, because I discovered while driving and oil filled in the differential, before I styarted the works. (it was the reason why I dismantled) So when I would put it back together (even with new bearings, because they were ok), the rumble would be there again for sure.

So now I think I have to dig further. But I need some help there with wath other cause it could be.

[jameshoward]

Well, you don't know for sure that when you put it back together with new bearings, flushed diff and new oil that the rumble will be there. The next steps with the axle are pretty serious if you feel the need to strip it down to look at internal bearings. It's a major job.

Personally, I'd check all the bushes and suspension components. Vibrations could come from any number of components that are far easier to replace: spring rubbers (top and bottom); broken springs (though unlikely); shock bushes; comp spring rubbers; trailing arm bushes; flex disc, and so on. You could look at all of these and more before you start removing the axle. Although I realise you may have already looked at all of these things.

My experience of having stripped 2 rear axles is that they're built to withstand nuclear wars and still work, which is why I'd suggest looking elsewhere. There are quite a few threads on here about stripping down the axles.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Rodolfo]

I saw on the net there are gear and pinion for 3.28 ratio (mine is 4.08). That is tempting, if I would decide to open the differential. But it is a big work. I will sleep a night over it, maybe I should try with the new axle bearings.

[DaveB]

I believe 3.75 is the lowest ratio gear set for 230SL. It has been discussed on the site.

[66andBlue]

Hi Dave,
there is a lower one for European cars - 3.69: http://www.pagode.info/22.htm

[Rodolfo]

Today I examined a bit more. The right wheel bearing is not super, but also not so bad. Of course it will be renewed anyway.

But I gave a closer look to the right hand axleshaft joint. See picture:

I slided the joint bellows away and shifted in slightly back the right axleshaft to support item 2, preventing it to hang in the axle tube (item 3).

As good as possible (narrow) I took with my hand item 5 , with my fingers near the side of 6. There was quite some radial movement possible (10 mm?) .
 Is that normal, or is the cross 6 or bearing 7 the cause?

And are 6 or 7 difficult to replace?

I really need advice here.

Best regards, Rudy

[George Des]

Rudy,

Ck all the mounts if you haven't done so already. As far as the right side bearing goes, make sure it is the roller bearing and not the same bearing type as on the left side. Many posts regarding this. I would not even think about changing the gears until you track down what the issue is first. It could be the slip joint and it could be the internal bearing. You may be able to extract the slip joint from the right side by undoing the attachment bolt and using a puller to get it out. I've never done this but I believe it is possible. You can then ck that universal. Bearing 7 would require a complete teardown to get at it easily. Best way to do this is to remove the entire rear axle from the car. If you go this far, it is time to address theother items in there that will be much easier to deal with like bushings, seals, the rubber bellows and the left internal bearing as well as the pinion bearing and crush sleeve. This is a big job! Changing gear rations would be done at this point but that alos brings along with it a set of issues that include proper gear meshing and gear set back.

[Rodolfo]

Thanks George for your advice.

I looked a bit further today (had a spare hour).

Probably it is not the pinion and crown gear of the differential. It could be indeed the slipjoint or the bearing of the pinion. In order to see that better, tomorrow I will dismount the compensation spring. I hope to see then what is under the belows.

Are there spare parts for number 6  on the drawing?

Don't see them at Bud's Benz or at SLS Germany.

[George Des]

I've actually seen that universal advertised for sale someplace. Perhaps it was on ebay. It would not surprise me if this is a std sized universal but you would have to pull the unit to be certain.

[tel76]

If you can get your hand to the universal joint and you can feel end play ie in and out,   it could be the bolt that holds the universal joint to the sun wheel in the differential has come loose.
If the bolt is loose the RHS axle housing will have to be removed to tighten up the bolt, as stated above the axle is better removed from the car for this operation.
If you have to do this do not use Loctite when replacing the bolt (just the recommended torque settings), if you do and have to remove it again at some time in the future you will not be able to undo the bolt and the fitting in the sun wheel turns and you have no way to get at it.

[George Des]

You should be able to reach that attaching bolt without disassembling the axle by using a long extension inserted through the right hand side axle tube after the rhs axle shaft is removed. Just beware that the bolt could be either a hex head or allen head-I've seen both used here.

[ja17]

Yes, you can reach the bolt with the housing in place if you use some long extensions. Get the axle housing as straight as possible. Take a good look with a flash light (torch) first to see what bolt you have. If I remember correctly it is either a 8mm allen  or a 15mm hex? Get it good and tight. If it comes all the way off, you will be walking. When I have a rear diff out and apart, I always use a new lock washer and locktite on this critical bolt, after washing and cleaning the threads.  With the rear diff still assembled and in the car,  just do the best you can.

[jameshoward]

+1 for thread lock. Having seen the hassle involved in trying to do this I don't want to be doing it twice! As Joe says, if it comes loose, you won't be driving anywhere.

[Rodolfo]

I  could not look today because of a busy day. But if it would be the bolt, for sure Locktite 242 (bleu) will do no harm.( But not the green for really thight ones.)