280SL Engine removal.

[Thierry du Laos]

Can somebody give me roughly the procedure to remove the engine?
I want to remove it disassembling it as less as possible!
The work to be done being mostly on the car body, and I need to strip it all.
For eg, can I take the gear box out with the engine together? With oil cooler too?

I bought this 280SL 1968 on the web from the area of New York, and after troubles getting the car into Laos (where I live) with the customs department, 3 years after, at last I start to refurbish the car, now March 2014.
All the work I do on the car can be viewed on my album here:
http://www.hostingpics.net/album/ThierryduLaos-127354.html
As knowledge can only be improved when shared with people who have the same passion.
I post regularly the pictures I take, so I can remember how it was before, for eventual lack of memory when rebuilding.
Please comment, its my pleasure to share experience, to try to make our beautifull Pagodas even better.
Thanks,
Thierry from Laos

[Larry & Norma]

Suggest you find a 'Haynes' manual, usually some on e-bay for about £20.
Details engine removal etc.

[DavidBrough]

As Larry suggests getting the Haynes manual is a good idea and you can remove the engine and gearbox as a single unit and you could leave the oil cooler connected but it would be much easier to remove it first. The overall job is quite straight forward with a good engine lift but it does need to have a good reach and fairly high lift. I found the most tricky bits to be separating the exhaust front pipes from the manifold and removing and replacing the speedo drive in the gearbox.

[ja17]

Hello Thierry,

Does your engine have air conditioning? Yes the engine is most easily removed with the gearbox.  It must be lifted at about a 45 degree angle.  You also have the option of lowering the engine, transmission and front suspension from below.

[GGR]

Hello Thierry,

like ja17 mentions, I took the engine and transmission from the bottom together with the front subframe. This makes it easier if you don't have an engine hoist (chevre) as you just have to lift the body with the jack.

If you are restoring/repainting the engine bay, having the front subrame out will make your life easier. It is also a good time to rebuild the front subframe. Even if it does not have any play in the kingpins (pivots de fusee) there are a lot of rubber parts that may be damaged by age. If you go that route, you should take the control arms (triangles) and suspension springs out while engine, transmission and subframe are still in the car so that you can use the weight to control the spring removal (with a jack under the lower control arm that you lower slowly once the bolts are undone).

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Hello Everyone,

Don't you think Thierry should seek some help from someone that has done it before? From his original post it sounds he has never attempted such a project before or has he ?

Thierry, Getting a manual as suggested is a great idea! Also have you Google'd "Images for Engine Removal Hoist" if you did it will show you some nice photographs and give you a taste what it will be like. I realize that you like to do some of the work on and around the engine bay once the motor and transmission has been removed. Also that you like to do all this work at home in your garage. If I was in your position I would do the following;-

A) Get the manual.
B) Study the manual for the planned work (remember planning is half the job).
C) Find out what tools you need like hand tools, engine lift hoist, rigging and a stand to support it all once removed from the car.
D) Last but not least find a good knowlageable mechanic to help you with this task (one that can also help with reassembly).
E) Find out what tools and devices you need to rent, borrow or purchase.
F) Take plenty of photographs as you remove items around the engine and transmission so you have guide lines for reassembly.
G) Oh and don't forget to drain the fluids oils, water etc. You don't want that stuff all over your garage floor  

My 2 cents anyway.

Good luck with your project!

[jameshoward]

The man's got to start somewhere, R-D. He may as well start at the top.

Plus, what could possibly go wrong...?!

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

The man's got to start somewhere, R-D. He may as well start at the top.

Plus, what could possibly go wrong...?!

James, you are right of course, I'm only concerned he may hurt himself, some extra hands and knowledgeable input won't hurt him ... he asked for "roughly the procedure" well that's my 2 cents worth

[W113SL]

I'm with GGR. I have removed and replaced the entire engine with gearbox, less the,manifolds from the bottom complete with the subframe.  If you remove the head then you will not need to jack the car too terribly high.  I actually mounted the subframe on a steel crawler less the tires so the profile was fairly low.


I am doing this from memory, but you will need to disconnect the brake lines, the four bolts holding the subframe mounts, the idler arm linkage, the two ground cables, the accelerator linkage and he linkage to the steering box.  Other than disconnectig the transmiission from the propeller shaft.  It goes pretty quickly and you do not need worry about scratching or denting your piant/bodywork.

This is way they did it at the factory when new.

Pete Lesler
W113SL

[Thierry du Laos]

Hi ALL.
Thanks a lot for the brainstorming.
I have done already the job on my Pontons, but I am a new comer for the W113.
For info: http://www.mbzponton.org/pax058/people/savidan/savidan.htm

I think I'm gona go the way GGR suggests in particular to be able to use the weight to control the spring removal. This is a very good point as I have to remove it all any way, and rebuild the subframe of course... All the rubbers are cooked.
I had also a hard time to get rid of the 3 bolts of the rear exhaust pipes, my fingers still remember today!!

Thanks a lot for all the interesting raised points.
Thierry

[GGR]

Hello Thierry,

I had a look at your Ponton page and it is indeed very impressive ! You should start a thread on this forum concerning the restoration of your Pagoda, like Andy did. You will get a lot of help.

Taking the intake manifold (collecteur d'admission) out will make your life easier when you lower the engine. I didn't and I had to wiggle the assembly quite a bit to get it out (but it still comes out if you are patient and find the right angle to lower it).

[jameshoward]

Having recently removed both manifolds (removing just the intake would make little sense) its not hard or time consuming. I soaked the manifold bolts in PLUS gas, spraying them daily for about 5 days. They came off like a dream.

When it came to removing the exhaust downpipes from the manifolds, after what seemed like ages twisting the pipes and seeing no movement, I followed Joe's advice and got medieval on the exhaust down pipes with a very large hammer.  They separated perfectly after a few decent blows. Just mind you don't hit the exhaust manifolds; they're pretty strong, but a steel club hammer could chip or crack them.

[GGR]

The rear exhaust manifold is often broken. I don't know if it is on removal, or if it brakes while driving because the exhaust line is not properly supported, but it's quite often that people are looking for a rear manifold. So you should use some caution there.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Hello Thierry,

Please accept my appology for my first post and unnecessary points made. I missinterpeted your original post and assumed very little experience. As your post above with the Ponton link shows is there no need for concern you sure know what you are doing. Perhaps if you had posted the link on the Ponton in your original post it would have not lead to the post I made.

All the best with your w113 restoration!

[jameshoward]

The rear exhaust manifold is often broken. I don't know if it is on removal, or if it brakes while driving because the exhaust line is not properly supported, but it's quite often that people are looking for a rear manifold. So you should use some caution there.

It's a fair point you make. I managed to break my rear manifold (well documented here...) by bolting it up without taking due care. A turn apiece on each nut as you go up would be cautious but safe. I'd also recommend using the correct bolts and nuts as per the EPC.

[garymand]

Nice work Thierry,  The W113 will be a piece of cake, a little tighter and hopefully in better shape to start.  I'm sure you will enjoy it.  I was tempted to refinish the hidden wood, I saved the verticle window frames but the speedo cover had already been miss-treated originally.  It wasn't intended to be seen as in your Pontons.

[Thierry du Laos]

Hi All,
Thanks for all your comments and advices, I appreciate a lot all the info before doing the job. No problem Rolf, I understand, my fault too.
For your info, I post all my pix here as I progress:
http://www.hostingpics.net/album/thierrydulaos-127354.html
If any point comes to you, I read everyday this e-mail address: savidan_thierry@yahoo.fr
I have taken out already the exhausts and intake.
Fortunatly I have a stainless steel exhaust pipe on the car, and it came out quite easy, just few scratches on my fingers for the rear lower 3 ones!!!!!
Its the only thing not rusted on the car...!
I bought this car in New York 3 years ago, on the web. I wanted a car engine running and auto gear box ok. Its for sure the only things ok on the car.
Everything is in poor condition. I suppose that the owner had few bumps all around, then the car stood outside. Some guys have tried to make a paint but stopped putting filler on the holes and left the car like that, just after Primer.
So I strip completly the car, discover her passed real life, and try to give her a chance for a new start in Laos.
Yes I hope Gary that its gona be a piece of cake, but there is a lot more stuff on this engine than the Pontons....
Concerning the wood, I am disapointed by the quality change from the older ones. On the Pagoda they made the woods very cheap, and the chromes too....!
I will make them new from nice local wood for ever!
I don't think I can take out the engine this week because I have trip to France for one week.
Anyway we catchup later.
GGR, what did you mean by :  "thread" on this forum concerning the restoration of your Pagoda, like Andy did.
You meant kind of  followup Topic for that engine removal or complete restauration project?

[GGR]

Andy's thread is here : http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=18284.0 I'm sure you've seen it, if not, you will surely find useful information for your restoration. Like him, you could start a thread documenting your restoration, a bit like a blog, where group members could help you when you hit a snag. This would also be a useful reference for future restorations by other members. I also did something similar here: http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=15521.0 though in my case the car was modified, so it's not really a reference as far as originality is concerned.

[Thierry du Laos]

Ok I will GGR.
By the way I understood why ja17 asked if I have air cond!!!!!
I tried to remove the compressor, but its no end job!
I got to the bolt in front, behind the little flywheel, and hesitate to remove the wheel.
Any problem if I remove it?
This one:

I think I will lower all with the subframe taking care not to hit the R/H horn braket. It seems there is more room on the left side?

[Kazoo]

I'm new to the w113 world, but have managed to get in pretty deep in a few short weeks!  I am working towards pulling the engine out to re-finish the engine bay, paint and detail and maybe overhaul the engine.  So far I have everything off of the intake side of the engine from the exhaust manifolds to the air intake, also I have the radiator and grill out so one side is wide open.  It was one of those situations where I thought I would refinish the overflow tank for the coolant one night over a cold beer, and before you know it, I had half of the engine on the bench!  Now I'm fully in and having a great time - its so much fun to work on the German cars!

I took the advise above and just ordered the repair manual also - maybe I should read before writing! But was so excited to find such a killer forum and site. Thanks so much to everyone that has invested so much into this incredible site.

So, I don't have an engine hoist (you dont really need tools like that when you work on Isettas - tweezers work fine for pulling those little chuggers !) so I am interested in understanding the dropping it out the bottom strategy.

Could you help me understand the "remove the wishbones and use the engine weight for the springs"  I'm not sure what you mean by this?? Is it to take out the springs to get the sub-frame to collapse smaller to get it out from under, or are you saying that you are going to want to take the springs out to replace worn parts on the suspension and so this is the time to get them out with the help of the engine weight?

I was imaging a process like this...comments welcome please.

1. Disconnect everything attached to the engine - wires, linkages, power steering lines, exhaust etc
2. Disconnect everything attached to the manual transmission - prop shaft, clutch/oil lines, spedo etc
3. Remove the plate under the transmission mount
4. Remove the shocks so you dont have tall objects to deal with on the sub-frame

then the question is, do you block up the power-train (engine & trans together) and remove the suspension sub frame as one unit and remove the drive train separately?
or do you lower the whole thing down together (power-train attached to suspension sub-frame) and take it all out together

The engine is only about 12" off of the floor, so I imagine that you have to jack the car up pretty high to get everything out together.  How high do you have to get the car, my ceilings are not that high!

Has anyone built a wooden cradle with some casters so the whole thing could be rolled out from under? Is this the way to do it?

THANKS...

[GGR]

Welcome to the forum !

I was recommending the OP to remove the suspension springs before the rest as he seems to be engaged in a complete restoration that will require refurbishing the front axle. In that case, it is easier to remove the springs while everything is still in place as one can then use the weight of the car to control the "descent" of the lower wishbone (removing them afterwards requires using a threaded rod through the springs and one plate at each end compressing the wishbones with nuts, which is a bit more involved. Removing the springs and wishbones before also makes the front sub-frame lower and lighter and therefore easier to get out from under the car. If you do not plan to rebuild your front axle, then you don't need to remove the springs first. You can get the whole front axle out complete. In that case, you may want to keep the engine in place, remove the axle first, and then the engine, as otherwise you may have to jack the car real high.

In my case, I had the wishbones out. I then lowered the car until the front axle and engine were on a wooden plank on the floor. Then I loosened the front axle mounts and jacked the car up while engine and front axle remained on the plank. I then pulled the whole lot forward from under the car, by pulling on the plank. To do that, I needed the front lower cross-member to be a bit higher than the engine's cam cover, which is feasible by extending jack stands under the chassis rail at the level of the front jacking points. Once the jack is extended to a maximum, you may have to let the car stay on the stands, lower the jack, fit a wooden block or bricks under it and go on jacking up until the front cross member is high enough.

[Kazoo]

Thanks GGR, really appreciate the guidance!

I dont actually know what I'm doing, I just seem to keep doing more! 

I think thats a great suggestion, what better time to re-fresh the front end than when the sub-frame out, why go through all of this work and not do it while its so accessible. 

What do you do with the back of the car during this?  Do you also jack the back up so that the whole car is going up?  Or are you just jacking the front with the rear tires in place??

[GGR]

You just jack the front.

[Thierry du Laos]

GGR I do not plan to dismantle the front axle assy. The car is 90 000 Miles, and I expect it is not necessary!?
I plan a deep cleanning of the engine/gear box and subframe assy, and of course replacement of all the rubbers.
The car has been outside for a while, and not driven for long, but the engine and auto gear box seem ok, as far I could drive test them.
However the car body is very damaged.... So I remove all from the car and rework the complete bare body. The only things I don't expect to work on are the engine, gear box and rear axle!!!!
Otherwise, evrything else will be cleaned, repaired, replaced and reinstalled.

[GGR]

Thierry,

at 90,000 miles, if the kingpins have not been replaced already, they may start having some play. You should check them by shaking the wheel holding it at 12 and 6 o'clock. Also, rubber donuts at the top and bottom of the kingpins, on the control arm bearings and the upper control arm stop bushings require the front axle to be dismantled in case you want to replace them.