problems with refurbishing rear axle 4,08 to 3.25

[Rodolfo]

I understand. It is probably best that I also solve this issue.

But I don't have any spare differential. So I would like to repair this one (I already had the cost of the U-joint, pinion, gear and bearings , all new, around 2000 euro)
I hope maybe only small costs involved to look at this new issue.

It would be great if anyone had a cross section drawing, before I look further into it.

Rudy

[Rodolfo]

To GGR,

thanks for your guidance.

I took out the center pin. The pin itself shows some radial wear, where the small gears rotate at it.

As I look into it the axial play, it can only be caused of wear of the gears or the pin or plastic bushings. The rigt side gear (where the U-joint is attached to) is fit between the two small side gears. If these wear out the right side gear can approach further to the pin. That is what happened.

I see that the small gears have some wear and the pin itself also. Would it be ok to change the two side gears and the pin and still use the other two gears? (Only those parts will cost new around 800 euro).Or should I try to add two more plastic bushings and change the pin (cost 200 euro)?

best regards, Rudy

[GGR]

I think I misinterpreted your previous message and I assumed that the right pinion had some play in the carrier cavity (ie the cavity and/or the pinion were chewed up). I assumed so because I have seen that on a 6.3 axle which also had problems with the U-joint. You should really check if all is fine there but from your last message it appears that this is not the problem. If so, you are in much better shape. All depends on how badly worn the smaller pinions are. You can change the pin and the plastic bushings and see if that's enough. An indicator is that these plastic bushings/washers are difficult to fit new, as they are thicker than the space they go into once the smaller gears press against the bigger side ones. If that's the case, you may not need to replace the smaller pinions. However, because of the wear, you may end up with some noise when you drive in curves. You may want to show these smaller pinions to a professional and see what he thinks. You also need to check the condition of the carrier where the pin lodges as sometines the holes wear and the pin ends up having some play there. I still think you may be able to source some good used parts. They are the same on the fintails which were produced in great numbers. Try asking your local section of the BM club for example.

[Rodolfo]

Today I had again some time to work further on the differential. I purchased the small axle , and the two spherical nylon rings. Went Ok.

All look quite ok, except when I push on the U-joint towards the differential, I still get noise from the satellite gears. So I looked a bit further. It seems I can push the u-joint (even with the Allen bolt tightened to the right tension) axial for about 3 a 4 mm inside the differential . This way I can put axial force on the bigger satelite wheel and then the noise begins.

So I think there is a ring missing on the U-joint side to take away axial play.

See the photo where you can see a gap (next to the bronze ring). Should there be another ring to take away the axial play? If so, what is the Mercedes part number? I guess the width should be around 3 to 4 mm.

I didn't forgot the spacer ring on the gear (1,6 mm), see other photo.

Maybe the ring I am missing is D35 258 at Niemoeller? What would be the Mercedes number?

Anybody hasa  better technical drawing of those details?

I am close of finalizing, but I always end up having small problems :-(


The help of our forum would greatly improve my chances of succeeding.

Thans, Rudy

[Rodolfo]

the photo with the gap (which should not be there, I guess) at the bronze ring:

[GGR]

I've never worked on early axles and they are all a bit different, depending on gear ratios etc. Notably, presence or not, and thickness of spacer between U-joint and pinion may vary. However, I'm quite positive that the U-joint bolts opposite the ring on the carrier, not the way it shows on your last picture. You need to swap the pinions' side so as to be able to bolt the U-joint on the other side.

The U-joint is bolted onto the pinion. Does that mean your pinion can move back and forth 3 or 4 mm?  An indicator is that the plastic shims should be difficult to fit. As a result you should not have any play there. Or is the play in between the U-joint and the pinion?

[tel76]

The copper  washer that you have located on the u/j is at the wrong location, it is a thrust washer and is fitted on the sun wheel,( if you left the soft copper washer  in the position you have it in the bolt that holds the u/j in position would very soon work loose) it is the steel washer that should be on the u/j.

[Rodolfo]

what steel washer would it be? Thicknes of around 3 to 4 mm? What part number would that be?

 That would be my missing part, I guess

[GGR]

The copper  washer that you have located on the u/j is at the wrong location, it is a thrust washer and is fitted on the sun wheel,( if you left the soft copper washer  in the position you have it in the bolt that holds the u/j in position would very soon work loose) it is the steel washer that should be on the u/j.

That makes sense, however the diameters seem to be wrong. The copper (or bronze?) washer looks to be too small to fit on the pinion side.

I looked on EPC and the picture is the same as the one posted earlier. However, even if the spacer noted DB35 258 is present on the EPC (generic) picture, it is not part of the list of parts listed for the 230SL. So I don't think you need it.

The spacers on the U-joint side come in a variety of thicknesses, from 1 to 2mm. And as tel76 suggests, I've only seen steel spacers on that side, but again, I have no experience with the earlier rear axles. EPC part numbers for these spacers go from 180 353 30 52 for the 1mm thick one up to 180 353 49 52 for the 2mm thick one. Increment in thicknesses is .1mm, but some thicknesses seem to have two part numbers.

The thrust washer on the pinion side is available in various thicknesses too, from 1.3 mm up to 2.0 mm, and part numbers start by 180 for some and 115 for others.

There is also a ring 110 353 00 48, not appearing on the picture posted earlier,  not sure where it is supposed to go, but it is on the parts list for the 230 sl and shows on the EPC picture (the one posted earlier is cut in the bottom before that ring shows).

[Rodolfo]

My fortune cookie says I am not lucky today:

After I fixed all previous problems and finally assembled everything (with making proper tools all the time, as we all know we have to do on this kind of job) I discovered a very nasty thing:

The slider sleeve which was very, very hard to find and with all the fun of installing in the U-joint with the 108 rolls, seem to have another spline then the right axle.

I didn't looked at that before, because it had the same length and fitted in the U-joint with the 108 rolls, which I thought was the only thing to worry.

I took some measures:

My old slider sleeve (which has a crack):

inner diameter : app. 25,4 mm (inner circlle of the teeth), app 28 mm outside diameter of teeth, 25 holes for splined axle, length is 82 mm

My right side axle:  outer diameter teeth app 27,3 mm , 25 teeth

I have bought by a slider sleeve (very very hard to find) which seems to be wrong for the axle (in the U-joint it fits correct) and has:

inner diameter of the teeth: 27,4 mm, outher diameter 29,5 mm, holes for 27 teehted axle, length is equal 82 mm.


1) Now comes the hard part: what was wrong, the partnumber suggested being 110-350-00-48. Or did the supplier gave me a wrong one, thinking it was a 110-350-00-48 (there was no Mercedes packing)
2) which one would I need in cas the part sold was that number, but the number 110-350-00-48 was not correct (230 sl ,66 VIN 113042 10 0015364)?
3) where would I find one? (New, I hope, since I renewed almost everything on the rear axle and differential by now)
4) If not findable, would another right axle with 27 teeth being hard to find, and would it have the same length and other features as my original axle?


bad, bad luck, since I was nearly there,

best regards, Rudy

PS on the photo is the left one, my old cracked. In the U-joint is the new, which is to big inside for my axle.

[Cees Klumper]

How about having your old slider made new by a metalworking shop, and selling (or returning to who you bought it from) the non-fitting part? May even be cheaper, who knows. This must be how cars get maintained and restored for which there aren't any parts available anymore?

[Rodolfo]

That would be costly I guess, I had a machinebuilding company for 25 years and ordered a lot of milled parts. The spline inside is expensive to make, the part should be also hardened, since the 108 rolls go over it. I guess it would be very expensive. I don't dare to think about that.

[Cees Klumper]

Ah, well that's a pity then. Maybe next best thing is indeed a used part if a new one is not to be found. Best of luck, sorry I can't help out with this one.

[GGR]

EPC confirms that 110-350-00-48 is the correct p/n for VIN 113042 10 0015364. However you need to make sure the rear axle on your car is the original one. It may have been swapped at some time during the car's life. Later axles have a serial number stamped on the center casing. If you have such a serial number you may be able to find out if it is the correct one for your car. May be it's noted on the data card, if not, MB may be able to help you.

If your axle is original to the car, then you may have been supplied with the wrong sleeve. Or, your axle may have been worked on and parts non original to it were fitted in it. The correct p/n for your right wheel shaft is 110 357 12 01. try to see if there is a part number stamped on yours somewhere.

[Rodolfo]

I just bought access to the EPC for a year and yes, it seems the slider sleeve should be that one.

Now I don't know if the supplier gave me the correct one (since no Mercedes part number on the package).

My shaft is still in the axle tube (since I was renewing the bearings and gaskets and seals) Maybe there is a part number inside hidden now? On the center of the shaft on the wheel side I only notice the number U.

But if they swapped the axle with a smaller spline, how did the find then the correct slider sleeve to fit? And if they did, how can I find out to find another one like this?

So , is it sure there will be a number on the axle ? Because then I have to uninstall it out of the axle tube. Which is fitted hard now, since I used Cilindrical  Locktite Strong for the bearing.

So I am confused now.

[GGR]

In fact I'm not sure there is a p/n on the shaft, and if the left one does not have one, then it is reasonable to assume the right one does not have it either.

Try to find someone who is fiddling with fintails. If you trace a rear axle, it's not that hart to spit it and measure the parts. They go for cheap, so you may end up if spare parts.

[Rodolfo]

To GGR,

on my datacard is written: hinterachse: 15601

Should it then be axle part number 110 357 15 01 instead of 110 357 12 01 according to EPC?

But what would be their difference??? the Spline?

(Not sure, I am a first time user of EPC (since 30 minutes)).

Rudy

[GGR]

Ha! EPC usually specifies VIN numbers (apart for engine parts where they specify engine numbers). So I didn't pay attention and I assumed 10453 was the VIN number when the change occurred. But in this case they specify the rear axle number (which makes sense). Not only that but they usually chronologically list the first model on top and later replacement under it. In this case they did the contrary. So one can easily get confused if not paying close attention. In your case, the correct sleeve seems indeed to be 110 357 15 01. Try to see if the supplier who sold you the other one can exchange it with that one.

[GGR]

Well, even more confusing, I now did a search using your vin number and EPC says that the 110 350 00 48 one is used as of VIN 14750 and up. That does not seem to be consistent with the rear axle serial number on your data card.

[GGR]

The earlier search I did was per model type, not VIN. It gave me a result according to rear axle serial number, and the sleeve 110 357 15 01 is used as of rear axle 10453 and up. Itried to do a new search by model type, but it now gives me the cut out per VIN number, not rear axle serial number.

[Rodolfo]

The progress:

I was a bit away from the project for a vacation on Corsica (which is great by the way!).

Finally I could find the right sliding sleeve. Turned out that the one I had was for a 220S and not for the 230sl. I installed it and composed the rear axle. All went fine there.

Now I am in the process of hanging the rear axle again under the car.

I have some questions concerning the rear axle and the alignment tool. I made the plumbing model.

But:

The car: I measured the car, and yes the points on the bottom where you attach the torque arms are of course 877 mm from each other, like the tool as well. And the point where the carrier or vertical support is connected is also a fixed point. So all that seems logical.

My rear axle: after reassembling the points where the torque arms attach to the car are 890 (instead of 877) mm from each other. Of course with small force you can put them at 877 mm because of the rubbers and the long length of the arms to the attachment of the axle. I also very precisely made the vertical support at the distance of 258 mm and perpendicular on the left axle.

Now my problem: When I took the rear axle of the car, I left the lateral support which connects to the "eye" on the differential at its place. That way I could simple reconnect the "eye" between the two rubbers and reconnect that, without losing the setting of that.

Now that I reassembled, some things are a bit sturdy to get where they belong. I started by hanging the rear axle in the shock absorbers and then I connected the vertical support of the differential in its place in the trunk. Then I reconnected the "eye of the lateral support at its previous setting. Then I wanted to put the torque arms on the chassis. They are a bit out of line (remember the 890 mm). And also a bit sturdy to put both right.
The only 2 things I can think of are:

1) Maybe the previous setting of the lateral support to the eye was not correct? So, should I loosen that and first put the torque arms to the car frame and then regulate the lateral support.


2) Or could I have the torque arms of the left and right side switched (I don't think so, but who knows: the 890 mm is also strange) How can I distinguish the right and left torque arm?

Thanks for help on this. Want to get it driving ;-)

Rudy

[ctaylor738]

I believe that the trailing (torque) arms are the same.  I have replaced the bushings on several cars and it has always been a small challenge to get the front mounts secured.  I use a homemade cone-shaped tool that screws into the large threaded hole.  I then put a floor under the trailing arm and raise it, allowing the tool to guide it.

[GGR]

I believe that the trailing (torque) arms are the same.  

Actually I believed the same for a long time but they are different: 110 350 10 29 for the left side, and 110 350 11 20 for the right side. Not sure what the difference is though.

[George Des]

Actually they are not the same and the tell tale is the flat portion where the donut that attach forward are located. If you roll them over and view this area you can see where the two are different. Now don't ask me which is the right and which is the left. Somewhere either here in the Forum or in the BBB I found that information the time I did need it.

[ctaylor738]

Good catch, George.  My bad.

CT