Engine swap

[Ricardo]

I know there has been a couple of disscussions regarding eng. swaps, but they have been about adding V8's and getting more muscle etc. What about more recent Benz sixes or even the fours? My 190E's 2.3 is much faster and much more fuel efficient and the 2.6 faster again while probably still more efficient than the 2.5's or 2.8's, not to mention a lot less polluting. Are the front axle assemblies comparably shaped, would they be easier to fit than a non Benz eng.?
I know too that most consider this idea verbotten, but I would sooner do this than give up on a car that I love, but couldn't afford to rebuild, if the numbers I've heard are right ($7000 US for a factory short block, with your old castings). It seems to me that the one area of the car that I can't be sure of in terms of long distance driving is the engine internals on a 35 year old car.
I know Walter Klatt has dropped a diesel in his SL and will probably be driving it this summer, as I think he was close to being ready last fall. Anyone else swapped motors ?
Richard V

[ja17]

Hello Recardo,
 Is your original engine bad? In many cases a head re-conditioning will solve all kind of problems.  Otherwise I think I would consider intalling a proven good era sedan engine in your 113 first until the time came to rebuild your original. You could find a fairly low mileage Mercedes W108 fuel injected sedan for much less money. Sure another more modern engine transplant could be performed. However a quality job would probably cost you more or nearly as much, not to mention the decrease in the value of the car. I know a 113 owner here who took a perfectly good running sedan shortblock out of his 113 and at great expense put a SL short block back in. This sedan short block is available cheap! I can hook you up with him if you like.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Ricardo]

Actually Joe I did the head overhaul that you helped me diagnose and recommend as a first step, about two years ago when I had a valve sleeve pop out and turn my car into a fog machine. The overhaul worked beautifully, the engine does not smoke, or use oil at all now; thanks to your kind assistance and right on advice, from a 1000 miles away. It did take some time to get it running right after reassembly, the mechanic (the young guy at the Benz garage who "knows" these old engines) didn't get the valve lash right and I had one not closing which took me a while to find. Now I seem to have developed a knock once the engine warms up. Still runs good but I'm not confident about a cross country trip I was hoping to make this summer. I guess I would probably look first for a suitable donor 108 as I'm currently running an SE engine, but the local euro parts guy wants $3000 for a good rebuider SE engine, so unless I can find one privately....
My car has seen a lot of "restoration" over the years, definitely not concours (though beautiful to me) and I'd probably never sell it anyway. Still I might be interested in the engine you know of and I was looking for an excuse to come to Blacklick.
I should probably get a second opinion before going under the "knife" too.
Richard V
Quebec

[Peter van Es]

Is there an answer for you? Yes... it's Mechatronik. They install brand new Mercedes Benz 3.2ltr V6 in Pagodas. They ar in germany, but service customers worldwide. Depending on requirements and the state of your car they can generate bills for you ranging from €50K to €200K... (for their Race version that'll get you to 100km/h in 6.5 secs).

Have a look at two articles on my site... http://bali.esweb.nl/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=33, "Can your Pagoda do 0-100 in 6.5 seconds" and http://bali.esweb.nl/modules.php?name=Sections&sop=viewarticle&artid=16 "More on a Mercedes 280SL with a heart transplant". You'll find their URL there as well.

Peter van Es

Check out http://bali.esweb.nl for photographs of classic car events and my 1970 280 SL

[Cees Klumper]

I'm with Joe on getting a good used, or partially rebuilt, sedan engine, rather than going for the factory solution. I found several sedan engines (block+head) here in the Netherlands for around $500 a piece (no guarantees on condition mind you). Fitting a whole different engine is a can of worms that can only run MUCH more expensive (including the inevitable drop in value of your car, which would be $thousands$) than even a new factory short block. Will Samples in the US (Texas) does engine rebuilding work, as do several other shops and, depending on the condition of your engine, this may not be all that expensive (particularly if the pistons and cam (bearings) are still serviceable). Come to Blacklick in June!- several others are travelling from places as far away as New York, Los Angeles and Detroit, and little old me from Amsterdam.

white 1969 280 SL

[ja17]

Hello Peter,
"50K- 200K" For that kind of money you can buy a new AMG Mercedes (for speed and comfort) and keep your 113 also(for classic originality)!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Peter van Es]

Yeah, you could... but then you wouldn't have a Pagoda that could overtake said AMG Mercedes. (well, almost).

Actually, I think it's silly. But there is a company out there that's trying to make a serious business of it. As long as there are people paying, they'll continue to do so.

Peter

Check out http://bali.esweb.nl for photographs of classic car events and my 1970 280 SL

[n/a]

Ricardo

I am with you, whilst we would all like a perfectly restored example, some of us cannot justify the time/cost but are still keen to enjoy the SL

When I purchased my 230, the engine was not original (280) and was actually on the way out (head, rings etc). I phoned around and much to my surprise a local MB serive centre had another 280 SE/SL SOHC long motor that they had recently reconditioned (the owners's daughter had then totalled the car in a rear ender).

Anyway, I had the engine fitted (came with reco fuel pump etc). Although it is not original, it looks the part and the car runs like a charm. Total cost for the exercise was around $3000AUD (1800US)

Exclaimer - not for everyone but it suits my pupose, my car is still a daily driver and destined for the classic rally ciruit.

cheers

greg

65 230SL

[Cees Klumper]

I visited the Techno Classica today and actually talked to the people from mechatronik in Germany, who do these wild engine conversions (http://www.mechatronik-gmbh.de) and they told me they do a couple of them a year. From the looks of it (they had a car on display) they do a very thorough and professional job. I will do a short write-up on this process for the next issue of "Pagoda World" since there seems to be at least some curiosity. They also offer a suspension modification including adjustable shocks and progressive-rate springs. They told me they will add English text on their site before too long.

To me personally, swapping the original SL engine for its virtually-identical twin out of a sedan, does not really make the car non-original (although formally I suppose it does). Probably a significant percentage of all Pagoda's out there already had this swap performed at some stage. I also ran into Gernold Nisius today at the Techno Classica, and he confirmed that the basic Mercedes philosophy is that anything that performs as well or preferably better than when the cars came out originally, is OK. Which is why they will sell a part as "original" even though it can be very different from what was on the car "originally".

[n/a]

quote:Originally posted by cees klumper

...the basic Mercedes philosophy is that anything that performs as well or preferably better than when the cars came out originally, is OK. Which is why they will sell a part as "original" even though it can be very different from what was on the car "originally".

Cees, I can surely agree with upgrading but at two conditions:
1) It is "upgrading" and NOT restoration. Restoration is preservation of the original characteristics in order to keep a historical sample. Upgrading is improving some areas of something which is interesting enough to be used although old.
2) Upgrading should (and this is my opinion) be limited to safety issues (i.e. safer brakes, seat belts, etc.) Installing a more powerful engine, for example, means you are deeply changing the car's "soul". If one's not satisfied with the performance of a certain model, then he can easily buy a different car. If the only thing you like of it is its looks, well, buy a replica, buy a standing model, whatever. And, to end up, the Pagoda surely is not a tame car: it's sufficiently potent even without any power increase.
In summary, I agree on putting safety items in, I agree in putting a sedan's engine of the same kind in (after all, it really is the same engine), I do not agree in putting a modern engine in.
Ciao


Duro
Italy