MB E250 Bluetec vs Prius

[66andBlue]

Here is something for you Prius haters and lovers. 
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-most-fuel-efficient-vehicle-in-america-is-a-luxury-car-044940724.html

[Flyair]

Very interesting.
This story reminds me of low-fat yoghurts or diet sodas that at the end turn out to be more detrimental to our health with many slide effects much nastier than the so called "legacy" products they were supposed to supersede.

Publicity and ill-oriented eco-lobbies are there to fuel this type of situations to stimulate demand of consumers that have a genuine desire to go green.

I think that generally speaking the green trend is good, but real change is still ahead of us.  

[scoot]

As the owner of a Prius (2007) and a past herd of benzes, the most recent being a C230k (2002) I have to say that this was one of the most idiotic articles I have ever read.  I'm one of the first to admit that the Prius is perfectly boring.  Yet that word "perfect" fits in there.  It _is_ boring to drive, but it does exactly what it is supposed to do flawlessly (with the exception of the gas tank capacity which by all Prius and Toyota accounts is pure lies).   If you want to see a more useful comparison, look at Consumer Reports "cost per mile of ownership". 

Don't get me wrong - I don't "like" the Prius and it is hardly a "driver's" car.  But the maintenance costs over the last 130,000 miles have been close to nothing and the fuel costs have been what you would expect for a 45 mpg car that burns regular unleaded.

On the other hand, (newer) Mercedes has gone from being a car that you own for a lifetime to a car that you lease for 2 to 5 years and then pass on to someone else at a fraction of the original price.  In short, it isn't a financially maintainable car.   The vast array of W126 and W140 sedans that I see at pick-a-part attest to the depreciation and unaffordability of long-term ownership from the marque that many of us have driven for 50 years still strong.

...I say as I go out to change the seat belts in my 1963 Fintail...

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Interesting article. For the last seven months I now drive the E350 4MATC and I must say it is one of the most efficient cars I've owned. On the other hand I know all car manufactures are now concentrating on fuel consumption and it is about high time.

[66andBlue]

.....  I have to say that this was one of the most idiotic articles I have ever read.  ...

I am sorry scoot,  I thought you would be amused and now I made you angry!      LOL

[scoot]

I am sorry scoot,  I thought you would be amused and now I made you angry!     LOL

It certainly doesn't make me angry at you.  

First, I'm annoyed with Yahoo for posting a rather ambiguous quote:

Earlier, Road & Track Senior Editor Jason Cammisa related a fantastic tale: The luxury sedan that beat the Prius in a real-world MPG battle. Now, go deeper as Cammisa tells the surprisingly interesting story behind the intriguing result.

Are they saying the rest of the Yahoo article was quoting a Road and Track publication, or that Yahoo was sharing this story with "others"?  If so, with whom?

The topic itself is silly.  Writing a pro-MB and pro-modern diesel article is great, and I certainly agree that the diesel engines today are nearly magic.  But it seemed to be just as much interested in saying "Look how good this Mercedes is compared to the much-revered Prius", which is silly.  It also seemed rather deceptive to discuss the merits of the MB diesel without discussing the life-cycle cost, which is pretty high.  And they completely neglected to mention the VW product line which actually makes a much better comparison to a Prius.  A Golf/Jetta TDI wagon and a Prius would make a truly interesting and much more fair comparison.

Just to bash modern MB a little further, we can discuss the joke of the S-class hybrid.  (Is it S-class or E-class?).  That is inferior in every way to their turbo-diesel version of the same car that they didn't import.  Better power, mileage, etc.  But no, Mercedes had to say they had a hybrid.  Eccchhh.  

All of this is silly in comparison to the other Diesel that I think we still don't get in this country - the Porsche Panamera diesel.  

I kind of have little respect for modern Mercedes, and think of it as something that you lease if you have unlimited money and it's really important to you to have one.  But I don't think of modern Mercedes as a car that you "keep".

[mdsalemi]

I always wondered "What if?"

What if, instead of the complex but brilliantly engineered hybrid system in a Prius, with the gas engine, electric motor, and associated, you just took all that stuff out (and the batteries) and replaced it with an internal combustion engine of equivalent size and performance? Something in the ~130HP range. There are a few hi-tech engines in both diesel and gas that could fit the bill from several manufacturers. How would the overall performance change?

I suggest a possibility is that the performance of the Prius--with its aero body and other fuel saving characteristics--outfitted with just an efficient engine, might very well be the same without all the complexity that that a hybrid brings.

Just a thought.

[scoot]

re: what if...

So put a VW TDI engine into a gutted Prius?  Probably would be pretty good.   I have to say though that the hybrid system is pretty much maintenance free until the day that the battery craps out.  Much less brake wear and overall maintenance on the hybrid.  You lwould ose the regenerative braking energy recovery, which accounts for a significant amount of the economy savings.  Perhaps a tiny TDI engine instead of the Prius gas engine but still hybrid technology...?

I think that the American market won't buy a car that is too slow, hence the vast assortment of tiny engines on non-US spec cars.

Price is a factor - TDI engines are expensive.  Maintenance / extended warranty on a TDI engine is expensive compared to the gas counterpart.   Electric motors are expensive but last a long time.  Batteries are expensive and last for ?   I'm at 7 years / 126,000 miles with no battery issues.   I expect a big bill someday or to junk the car depending on how everything else is on it at that point.   Actually, not THAT big, maybe $2500...  On a car that has had extremely few maintenance costs, one $2500 bill isn't unreasonable...   I think the high miles award is at 530,000 miles on an original Prius battery (gen II prius).

[mdsalemi]

Put SOMETHING in it other than a hybrid and you may get similar performance and costs without the complexity. It may be trouble free for you, but not for all, and complexity equals vast amounts of engineering and manufacturing costs. I'm just thinking out loud on this one…Prius won't be on my list regardless of engine.

http://gm-volt.com/2013/12/13/edmunds-volts-5-year-ownership-cost-is-much-cheaper-than-prius/

When you feel it's time to get rid of the Prius, maybe time to consider a Volt? 

[scoot]

Put SOMETHING in it other than a hybrid and you may get similar performance and costs without the complexity. It may be trouble free for you, but not for all, and complexity equals vast amounts of engineering and manufacturing costs. I'm just thinking out loud on this one…Prius won't be on my list regardless of engine.

http://gm-volt.com/2013/12/13/edmunds-volts-5-year-ownership-cost-is-much-cheaper-than-prius/

When you feel it's time to get rid of the Prius, maybe time to consider a Volt?  

Consumer reports recently did a cost of ownership per mile showing the 10 best and 10 worst in terms of actual cost.  As expected, Prius is one of the best and Mercedes is one of the worst.  

As for the Prius complexity, the consensus within the Prius community (and outside from what I have read) is that it is an extremely reliable car with extremely low maintenance costs.  The engineering has more maturity than any other hybrids on the market and it continues to sell like crazy.  Prius owners buy another Prius when they get rid of their cars...  Both new and used Prius cars are becoming the taxi of choice in many markets.  

The failures I have had on my 2007 include a water pump replaced under warranty and a failed tire pressure sensor not replaced under warranty.  That's it.  Ooops, the NAV unit crapped out and that I replaced with one from ebay.   One fairly expensive (under $1000 maintenance at 120,000 miles, other than that, oil changes.  I think the brake pads are original.   I'm probably on my third set of tires.

The Volt just screams everything I hate about detroit.   Too little, way too late, and can anyone really have any faith in General Motors...?  I work at JPL, we recently had an energy-efficient car show in our mall area with owners bringing their cars and manufacturers providing spec sheets and incentives.

You are correct that the Volt gets a big tax credit.  When I bought the Prius in 2007 I didn't get a big tax credit because it was based on income at that time.  But I did get a carpool lane sticker, which at the time added about $5000 to the value of a used Prius.   If you get a new electric or plug in hybrid in CA you get a carpool sticker a while - there is a limit on the number.  The hybrid stickers expired a year or two ago.

So at the car show at JPL there was the following:

Volt:  Nothing says plastic more than a General Motors dash.  Years late to the game.  Promises were made...

Smart Electric:  For almost the same money you can get a Leaf, which is pretty much a real car.   The Smart electric has the same problems as the Smart, except without the horrible transmission of the gas car.  Too much for too little.

Leaf:  Nice.  Comfortable.  Great choice.  Great tax credit, but that will probably end soon for Leaf since the credits are limited to a certain number from each manufacturer.

Fiat 500:  Amusing, being tested in the California market.

Plug-in Prius:  Interesting only because you get a carpool sticker, otherwise it's just a longer range Prius.  And if you get the tax credit on this it would be the bargain in the collection.

Tesla S: What's not to like about the Tesla !!!!!

[UJJ]

I own a VW Golf TDI 6 speed manual model year 2012. It is my daily driver and it is actually pretty quick and easy to drive. Average fuel mileage is 45mpg. Maintenance costs? Oil and filter so far and yes new wiper blades. Ok, I have to admit; it’s only 2 ½ years old and has just 18000 miles on it.
It too has a battery, but only one. The environmental negative impact of making batteries and recycle them also should be considered when talking green!
However, the only real fun to drive (and more) is my 280 SL and it too has only one battery!
Urban

[scoot]

I own a VW Golf TDI 6 speed manual model year 2012. It is my daily driver and it is actually pretty quick and easy to drive. Average fuel mileage is 45mpg. Maintenance costs? Oil and filter so far and yes new wiper blades. Ok, I have to admit; it’s only 2 ½ years old and has just 18000 miles on it.
It too has a battery, but only one. The environmental negative impact of making batteries and recycle them also should be considered when talking green!
However, the only real fun to drive (and more) is my 280 SL and it too has only one battery!
Urban

Look at the cost of the VW Platinum Easy Drive extended warranty on a TDI and you might be shocked.  (Then, if you decide you want one PM me, I have two contacts that are way under MSRP on the warranty).  Think about it before you reach 3 years/36,000 miles (I think that's the magic number).

I have a 2010 Jetta 2.5 which is also fun to drive, gets about 23 mpg, and will be gotten rid of when the extended warranty ends at 109,000 miles... 

Oddly enough, my beat-up Fintail is more fun to drive than my 250 SL.  Having the seats re-done in the 250 SL might make a big difference.  The Pagoda scores well on "cool" points, but comfort and ride are not the strong suits. 

Battery production and recycling IS a big deal.  Not just cars, but everything.  The Prius battery has a core charge of $1300 or something like that, which was factored into the numbers I listed above.  So it gets recycled, reconditioned, whatever...  But I think that the production of modern batteries is bad on the environment.

[Yem]

A nice clip, song and car to go with it......R107 fans will appreciate this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD5fLb-WgBU

[Garry]

I had a funny incident with a Prius about 7 years ago when I hired one.  I had not gone more than 5 miles from the Airport where I had picked ip up from Hetrz before a car ran into me on the left hand rear door crushing it in.  I decided I would return to the airport to report it and get the documentation out of the way so I did not get delayed next day when leaving Perth WA Aust. Just as I was pulling into the car park of Hertz, a Budget hire car ran up the back side of me also crushing the rear in.
 I pulled up off the drive through in the Thrifty hire car carpark and got out to look at the damage and exchange names.  Forgot about the hand brake and watched as the car then proceeded to drive into several of the Thrifty hire cars driverless crushing both front fenders.

When I went in to Hertz, they did not seem too surprised but did hit me for two excess charges that insurance covered.  Some weeks later I got a letter from Hertz and thought it would be suggesting that I get a different car hire company but no they were giving me gold membership and a weeks free future hire. They were game.

Lesson learnt, under no circumstances will I ever own or drive another Prius, they are just too attracted to hitting other cars, especally other hire cars.