Author Topic: Tires  (Read 38557 times)

bpossel

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Tires
« on: August 26, 2004, 06:17:24 »
All,

When I bought my 280sl a few months ago, it came with Michelin P195/75 R14 Rainforce MX4's (Whitewalls).  Yesterday I ran over something that cut the tire (not repairable).

Looks like I will need 4 new ones, whereas Michelin no longer makes the Rainforce MX4 and no longer makes whitewalls.

What tires do you have on your 113?  What size?  I read that the original size was 185/80 R14.  
Bob

bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320
« Last Edit: August 26, 2004, 06:17:46 by bpossel »

graphic66

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Re: Tires
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2004, 07:14:36 »
66 230SL 205/70/14. Check the speed rating on the tire you buy to make sure it is applicable to your car.

Douglas

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Re: Tires
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2004, 07:15:51 »
For what it's worth, I just ordered a set of the current tires Michelin offers in 185/80 R14 from tirerack.com. (Michelin is also offering a rebate right now if you order 4 tires.)

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

zanone

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Re: Tires
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2004, 07:25:59 »
My 69 has the 205/70/14s that were on the steel rims and now are on the alloys with no fender rubbing. Costco has the all of the sizes in Michelin and other brands.

Cees Klumper

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Re: Tires
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2004, 08:25:36 »
Hey Doug, how much are 4 correct-sized Michelins at Tirerack?
BTW I just tried the Tirerack.com site and it came back with no tires available at that size (185/80-14).

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

hauser

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Re: Tires
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2004, 08:37:00 »
I have the rainforce WW on my car and am pleased with them.  I knew Michelin no longer made these tires and one day I would have to find a suitable substitute.

If you are looking for original size you can do as Doug did and go to www.tirerack.com  You'll have some choices here.  Look for the "shop for tires."  Type in the criteria 195/75/14  or if you want the size Doug has 185/ 0 / 14 if you type in 80 you will not get any results, leave the aspect ratio blank (0).  The Michelin in your size WW is available only that it is in a narrower strip than your Rainforce tire.  The Tire Rack people are very knowledgeable 1-888-541-1777  they should be able to answer most of your questions.

One more option to consider if you want a 3/4" WW original size tires go to www.coker.com  $167 each![:0]

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2004, 08:48:55 by hauser »

Douglas

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Re: Tires
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2004, 08:41:18 »
Cees,

Michelin Agilis: $104 each, before rebate.

To use their search engine, don't type in the profile.

BTW, I had Michelin Rainforce tires on my previous SL and thought they were terrific. I think the closest thing they have to Rainforce is their "Harmony" series, but it's not available in 185/80-14.

BTW, I believe the original 185 R14 is not really an 80-series. I believe 80 is a very close approximation.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
« Last Edit: August 26, 2004, 08:49:59 by Douglas »

Albert-230SL

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Re: Tires
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2004, 09:40:27 »
quote:
Originally posted by bpossel


What tires do you have on your 113?  What size?  I read that the original size was 185/80 R14.  
Bob

Hi Bob,

I have Michelin MXV-P 185HR14 (which is the original size and speed rating -up to 210 km/h- for all W113) in my 230 SL. Michelin has this tire in its Classic Line range. I think MXV-P, and the "Phoenix" from Coker (I was told that Phoenix has less quality and grip than the Michelin), are the only two tires you can find nowadays in the original size and speed rating (fresh new tires, of course)...

This MXV-P tire is listed here: http://www.michelin-passion.com/passion/front/templates/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=40&lang=EN&dimension=1

For the USA, Coker is the importer of the Michelin Classic Line:

COKER Tire
1317 Chestnut Street. Chattanooga, TN 37402 (USA)
Tel : (423) 265-6368 Fax : (423) 756-5607
www.coker.com
e-mail : corkyc@coker.com
Contact : Corky Coker

Regards

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432

hauser

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Re: Tires
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2004, 09:50:06 »
Albert, I tried to find a picture of this MXV-P tire but was unable to.  Can you help with this?

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

Douglas

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Re: Tires
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2004, 10:29:54 »
Unless you're doing the car show circuit, don't buy the Phoenix tires. A very reliable source (Tom Sargeant) says they drive terribly. It's purely for the "look."

To say that tire technology has significantly evolved since the 60s is probably the biggest understatement ever made in this forum.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

Tom

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Re: Tires
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2004, 10:36:11 »
I am really down on Coker Tire.  The sold me the tires as an authentic reproduction, but the tire did not have the rub stripe.  I learn later that the early run of the tires they offered as authentic did not have the rub stripe.  So how authentic could they be????  This is THE distinguishing visual element of the early tires.

I asked them to take the tires back-no response to my email.

I rarely make negative comments regarding vendors in public forums, but for $167 per tire, one would expect to get at least what was advertised.  So to recap:

1.  Not what was advertised-missing the rub stripe;
2.  Non repsonsive to my emails
3.  Terrible ride
4.  Terribly expensive

Other than these points, the tires were fine.



_____________________________________________

1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic (restored & enhanced)
1971 280sl Tobacco Brown (low mileage stock)
_____________________________________________
1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic

J. Huber

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Re: Tires
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2004, 11:28:03 »
195/70/R14 Michelin X-Ones. Blackwalls. Nice tires.

James
63 230SL
James
63 230SL

hauser

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Re: Tires
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2004, 11:49:18 »
Tom, sorry to hear about this.  If you had to do it all over again what would you buy today?

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

hauser

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Re: Tires
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2004, 12:24:53 »
Does any one know what the overall diameter of the original tires?

Has anyone tried the Bridgestone Turanza LS-T?  The tread pattern looks similar to that of the Michelin Rainforce.

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

Mark in KS

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Re: Tires
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2004, 13:05:34 »
Tom, I too, bought the "original" tires from Coker and got the same product you described.  I was really disappointed in the appearance, as I wanted the rub rib like my spare (I still have the original Firestone spare!).  I notified Coker that their product was not as described and that it even looked like they pulled my order from the dust bin.  The description of the tire on the website also measured the whitewall width wrong.  It said it was wider than it actually measured.  Maybe they corrected the website description,  I have not looked to see if it was corrected.  That should be grounds for a return authorization if it still exists.

Coker responded properly and refunded my purchase including freight for one direction.  I hope they respond for you in a like manner.

As for tires, I eventually purchased Pirelli P400 from the Tire Rack.  I ordered them on a Friday and received them on Monday.  Great service, and a great touring tire.  The whitewall stripe is a nice width.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2004, 12:59:43 by Mark in KS »

CarlG

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Re: Tires
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2004, 13:19:32 »
I put the Bridgestone Turanza LS-H (195-70-14) on my car a few months ago.  They are only blackwall, but the handling improved greatly, I am very happy with them.  Got them from Tire Rack.

1967 230sl (stick)

230SL67

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Re: Tires
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2004, 13:26:43 »
I bought the Turanza LS-T earlier this year and I am very pleased with this tire.  I wanted a quiet ride, whitewalls, no bizarre sidewall markings and no agressive tread.  These tires in a 195/75-14 fit the bill for me, they look right, ride great and made a huge difference from the ten year old Michelins that I had.  The reviews on Tirerack and others were fairly consistent in rating the Michelins as a noisier tire and I don't know if the Pirelli 400 is still available in a WW but I did like it's appearance.

Chris

Tom

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Re: Tires
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2004, 14:18:55 »
Houser,

I would not buy again.  I have seen the newer version and the rub stripe on the "newer" production run is situated too close to the center of the tire compared to the original tire.  I also wonder how true the dimensions are to the original tire.  I just think they are over selling how authentic the tire is.  They are also selling a tire that rides poorly, lacks authenticity and they sell the tire at an outrageously high price.

Best,

Tom

_____________________________________________

1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic (restored & enhanced)
1971 280sl Tobacco Brown (low mileage stock)
_____________________________________________
1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic

Mike

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Re: Tires
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2004, 18:09:50 »
I looked around a lot at tires for something that has a reasonable look (not too modern looking) while at the same time offered a smooth ride and reasonable performance.  I settled on the Goodyear Assurance 195-70-14.  There are two tread patterns and I got the one that has more of a retro look to it.  They are very nice tires and I have no copmplaints.  I came close to buying the Firestone Phoenix from Coker but, based on what I read below, I'm glad I didn't.

Mike

Michael L. Hund

bpossel

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Re: Tires
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2004, 19:43:14 »
Hi All,

This is such a great group of friends!  Thank you for all of your replys!!!!  The MX4's have been a good tire, and I have 3 with less than 10k miles if anyone is interested in them...

Anyway, based on your replys and since I drive the car on a regular basis, I have decided to buy the Bridgestone Turanza LS-T.  It seems that not only some of our fellow 113 drivers have and like them, but they are also very well rated by Consumer Reports.

Again, Thank you all for your support!!!
Bob
ps. tomorrow I have taken the day off from work to install a new timing chain, sprocket and tensioner.  I'll update you on how it went via another post...


quote:
Originally posted by bpossel

All,

When I bought my 280sl a few months ago, it came with Michelin P195/75 R14 Rainforce MX4's (Whitewalls).  Yesterday I ran over something that cut the tire (not repairable).

Looks like I will need 4 new ones, whereas Michelin no longer makes the Rainforce MX4 and no longer makes whitewalls.

What tires do you have on your 113?  What size?  I read that the original size was 185/80 R14.  
Bob

bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320



bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320
« Last Edit: August 26, 2004, 19:46:22 by bpossel »

Albert-230SL

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Re: Tires
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2004, 00:44:48 »
quote:
Originally posted by hauser

Albert, I tried to find a picture of this MXV-P tire but was unable to.  Can you help with this?
Hi,

attached is an ad from the MB Classic Center, about the Michelin MXV-P tires and the Pagoda. MB shows this MXV-P 185HR14 as the correct tire for the W113. The "P" from "MXV-P" means that it has the rub stripe that Tom misses in his Phoenix...

Download Attachment: MXV-P.jpg
80.04 KB

and here another view of the MXV-P pattern:



Regards

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432
« Last Edit: August 27, 2004, 02:07:20 by Albert-230SL »

n/a

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Re: Tires
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2004, 10:51:15 »
Good afternoon gentlemen,  I am Jim Hildebrand with Coker Tire.  I got blasted here yesterday, and thought I ought to respond specifically to Tom.

Dear Tom

I read your email this morning, and I visited the chat room.  Following your example, it seems proper to respond to you in public.  I apologize for my slow response to your August 13th email, but on, and since, that specific date, I have been dealing with personal and family issues ( I lost 2 family members within 12 hours of each other) that have kept me out of the office.  I did see your email, and thought it unreasonable considering that you purchased the tires on June 6th of 2002, and determined to respond to you at a later date when I could give you my full attention.  By the way, we do have a toll free number and full staff of customer service representatives that would have been happy to talk to you. I appreciate your concern about "the view of Coker Tire being tarnished"  I wish you would have called.   Now that I am back in the office, I'll respond to your request.

No, I don't think it is reasonable to exchange 2 year old tires simply because our newer tires have a curb guard and our older tires do not. We added the curb guard after the tire had been initially introduced as a response to the preferences of our customers.

Regarding other comments posted on this public forum, we developed the 185R14 Phoenix because there was not a tire available with the original 185R14 size markings.  The 185R14 Phoenix is manufactured for a very limited group of collector cars, and therefore is built in production runs of only 250 units, hence the high production cost. Regarding the quality, these tires are built in a Michelin approved factory.  It meets all U.S. and European standards for Highway use.  Specific to the position of the curb guard, we were able to modify the tire mold to form the curb guard, but we are limited by the mold itself as to where that specific feature can be located.

There are other high production modern sized (195/70R14) radial tires available. Our objective is to provide a tire with the correct size nomenclature and an authentic style tread and side wall, I don’t think you will find anyone else making such an effort.  I do appreciate those of you who have our product on your car, and who appreciate our efforts to supply authentic tires to the collector car hobbyist.  Our policy still stands that if you purchase tires from Coker Tire and upon receipt of those tires determine that you can not use them.  You are welcome to send them back for a refund.  If you would like to speak with me or any of our customer service representatives, we provide a toll free number 1-800-251-6336.  Just call us and speak directly.

Thank you for reading my comments.

Sincerely,

Jim Hildebrand
Vice President, Export Sales
Coker Tire

 
-----Original Message-----
From: <Tom Sargeant> classic280sl@yahoo.com [mailto:classic280sl@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:07 PM
To: jimh@coker.com
Cc: corkyc@coker.com
Subject: Fw: 185R14

Jim,

I never received a reply to my email.  I generally don't say negative
things about vendors on public forums.  However, my disappointment over
these tires combined with a lack of response to my email moved me to
respond negatively when asked about the tires.

You can see my posts at the following link.  This is an active vintage
board and the view of the Coker tire is getting tarnished.


Jim,

I must have purchased that first production run as I was disappointed when
my set arrived without the rub stripe.  I have been spreading some
mis-information to potential buyers, as I have told people not to bother
with the tire as it did not have the rub stripe that the original Phoenix
had.

Wondering if Coker would take my original tires back and provide me with
the tires with the rub stripe.  I paid $160 per tire so they were premium
priced at the time.  It would be a nice gesture that I could share with the
rest of the vintage Mercedes community.

Thanks for your consideration.

Best,

Tom

Douglas

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Re: Tires
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2004, 11:18:54 »
Jim,

Your company has a fine reputation and you carry many products that can't be found anywhere else.

Nonetheless, I have to pose this question: If your goal is to produce "authentic style sidewalls," shouldn't you be willing to make a concession to a customer who was supplied with something that was less than authentic?

In terms of authenticity, your product as sold to Tom is defective. The fact that you made the change to subsequent Phoenix tires concedes that.

(If I sound surprised at this transaction, it's because I've always presumed Coker to be an excellent company.)

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
« Last Edit: August 27, 2004, 11:20:43 by Douglas »

Albert-230SL

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Re: Tires
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2004, 13:57:38 »
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Hildebrand

... we developed the 185R14 Phoenix because there was not a tire available with the original 185R14 size markings.

Hi Jim,

I'm very sorry for your personal issues.

Just to confirm the information I have: Michelin nowadays produces again (in the Classic Line) its MXV-P in the original W113 size (185R14), speed rating (H = up to 210 km/h), and curb guard. The Spanish importer of the Michelin Classic Line (Pneum Galacta) sent me a list of the importers of that Classic Line all over the world, and Coker Tire was listed as the importer for the USA. Is this correct? Do you have this MXV-P 185HR14?

Best regards

Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432
« Last Edit: August 27, 2004, 14:00:31 by Albert-230SL »

hauser

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Re: Tires
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2004, 14:24:24 »
Albert, is this Michelin MXV-P available in a WW?

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.