Re: Hi Everyone! And help me find a mint w113..

[mdsalemi]

You are right on the confusion on Euro and British Pounds...

Don't think there is as much confusion on currency values as there is a dynamic volatility in the markets--all of them.
Over the past year, the value of a USD $ has climbed against both the Euro, and the Pound.
Over the past year, the value of a Euro has climbed against the Pound, though more so in the past 6 months.
Over the past year, the selling prices in the USA of Pagodas--"The Market"--has been climbing, placing the same car at a higher value today, than last year.
So, cars are listed here at one price, and they sell at another. The auctions are a good of indicating where prices are going, since they are purely discretionary purchases and public information. The sources for prices in the USA, as mere guides, are based upon reported sales. All indicate a stiff rise.
Some of the photos that people post of cars for sale, particularly ones that appear to be on the lower end, are a bit misleading. Take a look under the hood, and the undercarriage, and in the boot/trunk. There are a lot of cars that look pretty on the outside but are really tarted up...and need a bit of work where you can't see it from a pretty profile.
A "mint W113" is going to cost--and with the dollar being what it is, probably more here than in Europe. However there was a time when the opposite was true. Many Pagodas were getting shipped back to Europe with a low dollar.
Good luck in your quest.

This conversation/thread reminds me a bit of one we had here a few years ago when a buyer was aghast at the price of a new Grill Star/Barrel Assembly ($1,200+) from Mercedes-Benz, and equally annoyed that either NOS, or good used ones either privately, from broker dealers or eBay were over $600, some more than that. Seemed he wanted a nice one for less than the market was bearing...and during the conversation my guess is the market went up.    This same conversation was held years earlier when the same part was half the price...

[Erics]

Don't think there is as much confusion on currency values as there is a dynamic volatility in the markets--all of them.
Over the past year, the value of a USD $ has climbed against both the Euro, and the Pound.
Over the past year, the value of a Euro has climbed against the Pound, though more so in the past 6 months.
Over the past year, the selling prices in the USA of Pagodas--"The Market"--has been climbing, placing the same car at a higher value today, than last year.
So, cars are listed here at one price, and they sell at another. The auctions are a good of indicating where prices are going, since they are purely discretionary purchases and public information. The sources for prices in the USA, as mere guides, are based upon reported sales. All indicate a stiff rise.
Some of the photos that people post of cars for sale, particularly ones that appear to be on the lower end, are a bit misleading. Take a look under the hood, and the undercarriage, and in the boot/trunk. There are a lot of cars that look pretty on the outside but are really tarted up...and need a bit of work where you can't see it from a pretty profile.
A "mint W113" is going to cost--and with the dollar being what it is, probably more here than in Europe. However there was a time when the opposite was true. Many Pagodas were getting shipped back to Europe with a low dollar.
Good luck in your quest.

This conversation/thread reminds me a bit of one we had here a few years ago when a buyer was aghast at the price of a new Grill Star/Barrel Assembly ($1,200+) from Mercedes-Benz, and equally annoyed that either NOS, or good used ones either privately, from broker dealers or eBay were over $600, some more than that. Seemed he wanted a nice one for less than the market was bearing...and during the conversation my guess is the market went up.    This same conversation was held years earlier when the same part was half the price...

Hi Michael,

i like to trigger some passion in people... This is something else!

The thing is. I am after a nice car at a reasonable price. And not particularly stressed or passionate about it.

I stopped searching for a while as I got busy with other cars. Not like I have been searching endlessly since the last summer so you may get an (wrong) impression of desperation...

Your post above contains a variety of errors, one of them being:
<Over the past year, the value of a Euro has climbed against the Pound, though more so in the past 6 months.>

The Euro has in fact weakened considerably against the Pound from circa 0.83 down to 0.72.

Otherwise I think that I have been pretty factual about those cars offered above £100k and not moving.Stating the name of the dealers for everyone to check by themselves.

Most of them (dealers) tend to think they have Brabus / Cardock Classic restored type cars. Which in 99% of the cases are far from the reality.

The thing I noticed with Pagodas is that there is virtually every shade of grey of quality and the same goes with pricing. So each and every car has to be judged on individual merits.

In discussions with a few persons and hopefully can sort out a deal in the next couple of weeks.

Mike (Milkyboy), feel free to pm me and I can let you know about some of my findings...

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Hello Erics,

You have been taking your time finding that Pagoda that is on your wish list. I noticed that one of your likable exterior colours is "blue" my car happens to be blue with blue interior. It is a US delivery originally to the state of Florida and imported to Canada in 1992 then restored at RM and purchased by a milionare here in little London Town, Ontario Canada. I found the car by accident in 2013 and purchased it after careful examination (the last two photos on my web site link show the car in a heated and air-conditioned garage of the millionaire in March 2013). Since then I only had the fan clutch replaced and late last year the radiator was recored and the oil cooler cleaned up. In September 2013 I drove the car all the way down to Williamsburg VA. for the 50 year celebrations that have taken place (a 1600 mile round trip without any incident except the passenger windshield wiper got loose, something I was able to correct quickly). There is a photo shoot included on my web site that I made on my return trip from Williamsburg VA as I stopped for dinner in Niagara Falls.

My car has won three awards, two first place at Mercedes Benz Club car shows and the last one was a Peoples Choice Award 2nd place on the Concourse on the Green in Williamsburg VA in September 2013 (see pictures in my web site link). Someone with a Texan accent walked up to me at the Williamsburg VA Concourse on the Green and said "I see you are from Canada, I pay you $70K plus an air ticket home for your car!" I told him "sorry the car is not for sale"

Look here if the link in the upper right does not open ----> http://rolf-dieter.smugmug.com/Cars/280SL-Photo-Shoot/

Now you might ask "Why is he telling me all this"

Well, you know as well as many others that might read this do "Life can trow us some pretty hard curve balls" It has town me a pretty hard one in December 2013 when I became the full time caregiver for my wife. Since then she has had a operation spend 4 weeks in the hospital and now is in a long term home. I don't think I need to say more.

So the natural path of life then get's into gear, selling the house, perhaps one or two cars (I now have three A wheelchair van, my daily driver and the Pagoda).

My plans are to still take in the PUB2015 near Columbus, Ohio in September 2015. BTW there my car will meet Michael Salemi's car his and my car are only three VIN numbers apart, it should be quite a reunion for the two cars

Chances are that there will be a "For Sale" sign on my car at that time. If not then, one other plan I have is to ship the Pagoda to London England have the car totally checked over in Colin Fern's shop then take a nice trip in England, Scotland and Italy before I sell her in Europe.

So my question to you (having seen quite a few Pagoda's) in what price range do you think my "Blue Tornado" falls?

Perhaps you like to wait with your purchase till September and take a vacation trip to PUB2015 you will have a chance to see many Pagodas

Anyway Erics, as I said before , I wish you good luck in your search!

[Erics]

Hi Rolf,

Thank you for your kind and touching post.

My impression is that top cars fetch high money either side of the pond but they are getting rarer.
They are either top restored cars respecting each and every factory details or totally original ones.

I would say the above are are 2-3% of all the pagodas for sale.

Then there is the history element which a bit like vintage watches commands a slight remium.

Your car looks pretty and a good colour combination but it's hard to tell in details from the pictures.

What jumps at me is that details such as non original radio, engine bay not detailed and cup holders may ring alarm bells for some buyers.
However, i assume that the quality of restoration was good without being supetlative. I can't see notches on the front fenders for example.

Also bear in mind that europeans like the european looks. Us bumpers and side repeaters are not particularly well loved. Paradoxically, for mid tier cars, the chance is that you would get more money if it was europeanised already (front lights, remove repeaters and bumper overriders). Some may argue that it would cannibalise the car. But unless it is one of those super high quality cars appealing to specialists, chances are that the market will discount it.

As is and assuming that the car is good, relatively original and mechanicals are good, i would risk a price range between £50-65k. Obviously hard to say without seeing it and knowing all the details, but that is what those pictures inspire me based on what i saw recently.

Kind regards,
Eric,

Hello Erics,

You have been taking your time finding that Pagoda that is on your wish list. I noticed that one of your likable exterior colours is "blue" my car happens to be blue with blue interior. It is a US delivery originally to the state of Florida and imported to Canada in 1992 then restored at RM and purchased by a milionare here in little London Town, Ontario Canada. I found the car by accident in 2013 and purchased it after careful examination (the last two photos on my web site link show the car in a heated and air-conditioned garage of the millionaire in March 2013). Since then I only had the fan clutch replaced and late last year the radiator was recored and the oil cooler cleaned up. In September 2013 I drove the car all the way down to Williamsburg VA. for the 50 year celebrations that have taken place (a 1600 mile round trip without any incident except the passenger windshield wiper got loose, something I was able to correct quickly). There is a photo shoot included on my web site that I made on my return trip from Williamsburg VA as I stopped for dinner in Niagara Falls.

My car has won three awards, two first place at Mercedes Benz Club car shows and the last one was a Peoples Choice Award 2nd place on the Concourse on the Green in Williamsburg VA in September 2013 (see pictures in my web site link). Someone with a Texan accent walked up to me at the Williamsburg VA Concourse on the Green and said "I see you are from Canada, I pay you $70K plus an air ticket home for your car!" I told him "sorry the car is not for sale"

Look here if the link in the upper right does not open ----> http://rolf-dieter.smugmug.com/Cars/280SL-Photo-Shoot/

Now you might ask "Why is he telling me all this"

Well, you know as well as many others that might read this do "Life can trow us some pretty hard curve balls" It has town me a pretty hard one in December 2013 when I became the full time caregiver for my wife. Since then she has had a operation spend 4 weeks in the hospital and now is in a long term home. I don't think I need to say more.

So the natural path of life then get's into gear, selling the house, perhaps one or two cars (I now have three A wheelchair van, my daily driver and the Pagoda).

My plans are to still take in the PUB2015 near Columbus, Ohio in September 2015. BTW there my car will meet Michael Salemi's car his and my car are only three VIN numbers apart, it should be quite a reunion for the two cars

Chances are that there will be a "For Sale" sign on my car at that time. If not then, one other plan I have is to ship the Pagoda to London England have the car totally checked over in Colin Fern's shop then take a nice trip in England, Scotland and Italy before I sell her in Europe.

So my question to you (having seen quite a few Pagoda's) in what price range do you think my "Blue Tornado" falls?

Perhaps you like to wait with your purchase till September and take a vacation trip to PUB2015 you will have a chance to see many Pagodas

Anyway Erics, as I said before , I wish you good luck in your search!

[pdc]

here is some 80  for sale now in Germany, Spain, Italy , Belgium , France, Austria and the Netherlands;  prices from 35k€ ( for restorations) up to 125k€ , that excluding the ones from Brabus

http://occasions.autoscout24.be/?atype=C&make=47&mmvco=1&model=-67&mmvmk0=47&mmvmd0=-67&pricefrom=1000&fregfrom=1960&fregto=1970&cy=B%2CD%2CF%2CI%2CNL%2CA%2CE&ustate=N%2CU&dtr=s

At any case it's very difficult to evaluate 'your' value on a car based on online pictures without that you see, feel, drive, smell and even work on the car. Is everything working as it should ? How well do you know these cars, can you look behind the aesthetics?  There is so much to verify and I think many cars on the market might be cars with work, lots of work on them. I would try to find one from an owner that took pride of his car through clubs or mechanics who did maintenance , those cars don't really need to be advertised I think but probably rare to find. Don't be in a rush but don't drag looking for one cause prices go up sure enough.

[JamesL]

Milkyboy
You have a PM

[Erics]

here is some 80  for sale now in Germany, Spain, Italy , Belgium , France, Austria and the Netherlands;  prices from 35k€ ( for restorations) up to 125k€ , that excluding the ones from Brabus

http://occasions.autoscout24.be/?atype=C&make=47&mmvco=1&model=-67&mmvmk0=47&mmvmd0=-67&pricefrom=1000&fregfrom=1960&fregto=1970&cy=B%2CD%2CF%2CI%2CNL%2CA%2CE&ustate=N%2CU&dtr=s

At any case it's very difficult to evaluate 'your' value on a car based on online pictures without that you see, feel, drive, smell and even work on the car. Is everything working as it should ? How well do you know these cars, can you look behind the aesthetics?  There is so much to verify and I think many cars on the market might be cars with work, lots of work on them. I would try to find one from an owner that took pride of his car through clubs or mechanics who did maintenance , those cars don't really need to be advertised I think but probably rare to find. Don't be in a rush but don't drag looking for one cause prices go up sure enough.

See it's quite funny, a few cars in there that i looked at while back.

This for example:

http://nl.ww3.autoscout24.be/classified/263184394?asrc=st|as

Has been for sale for well over a year. Looks like a very nice car on surface but oh so many small details are not correct. Price is not crazy but high enough and it just does not sell.

[Erics]

Still looking gentlemen. Looking at the white-grey one in Rosier in Germany (US spec restored to euro specs).

Looking at one in ireland, lhd US car with 39k miles original and full history from new.

Otherwise contacted some polish members of this forum to explore the possibility of having a car done up from scratch.

Overall still prefer 280sl lhd auto in euro specs... Any pointers appreciated...

[Garry]

Erics,

You crack me up.  107, no, now 108 posts, somewhere around 90 cars suggested and you are still looking.  Why am I not surprised ;

 I looked for three years for my second Pagoda, flew over 17000 miles and drove over 2500 miles and in that time the price went up around 60%. Lesson learnt, compromise and do some restoration or double the budget.  I took the first option but still doubled the budget.  The cost now would be double that again.

Good luck, we are all watching with baited breath to see what you go with.

[Erics]

Hi Garry,

The wait could have been over this weekend if Neil Dickens at the hairpin company had not sold the beautifull lhd euro car he had the day before..
http://www.thehairpincompany.co.uk/car-Mercedes-280SL-1968-2.html

Grrrr.

The budget is there for the right car. And went up just like it probably did with you.

Oh well.. I have another car on my radar which is in ireland...

Eric.

Erics,

You crack me up.  107, no, now 108 posts, somewhere around 90 cars suggested and you are still looking.  Why am I not surprised ;

 I looked for three years for my second Pagoda, flew over 17000 miles and drove over 2500 miles and in that time the price went up around 60%. Lesson learnt, compromise and do some restoration or double the budget.  I took the first option but still doubled the budget.  The cost now would be double that again.

Good luck, we are all watching with baited breath to see what you go with.

[Benz Dr.]

I've seen all of this before, in many dfferent ways, on several different sites.

It kind of reminds me of the old guy down the road who had a beat up 300SL and everyone wanted to buy it. People showed up from all over the place to help him change the oil and get the car running once in a while but after being driven rarely and only in parades, it was a complete mess; but it was a 300SL. He knows that if he sells the car, all of these vists from those who wanted to buy the car, or those who just wanted to admire it, will come to an end.
In the end, he sells all of his cars to RM because they took everything and they could afford to pay his price. RM cleaned the car up, fliped it at one of their auctions, and made a big bag of money.

So, what does this have to do with someone trying to find their perfect car for a resonable price? Well,  I'll let you, the readers of this post, figure that out on your own.

[Erics]

All due respect, be sceptical (cynical?) all you want.
Not sure you clicked on the link i last posted, that was a good car correctly priced. Which i agreed to buy subject to seeing / checking the car.
Unfortunatly, got to work (hard) to make a living, meaning being chained to my chair during working hours. Someone got there before me.

The reason why i am making use of this site is because there is a concentration of mostly great people who generally know well about w113 and who are based in different geographical areas. They may know of something that I don't.

Many cars offered are based in the US which really is not ideal as i would want to see before buying. I travelled across Europe and met some great people on this forum. They know who they are and they know i am genuine.

If my quest / interest annoy participants of this forum, i can stop posting altogether. You tell me.

I've seen all of this before, in many dfferent ways, on several different sites.

It kind of reminds me of the old guy down the road who had a beat up 300SL and everyone wanted to buy it. People showed up from all over the place to help him change the oil and get the car running once in a while but after being driven rarely and only in parades, it was a complete mess; but it was a 300SL. He knows that if he sells the car, all of these vists from those who wanted to buy the car, or those who just wanted to admire it, will come to an end.
In the end, he sells all of his cars to RM because they took everything and they could afford to pay his price. RM cleaned the car up, fliped it at one of their auctions, and made a big bag of money.

So, what does this have to do with someone trying to find their perfect car for a resonable price? Well,  I'll let you, the readers of this post, figure that out on your own.

[hauser]

Be patient.  The right car will come along.  If you find one pluck down a deposit until you can go see it.  Good luck!

[Garry]

Dont stop posting, it is just somewhat amusing as many of us have been there, done that, some several times over and time will change,
a. the amount of monies you put in,
b. how you approach the task,
c. the compromises you will make, and
d. the speed you will need to close a deal in the current hot pricing climate.

At the moment it is not in the buyers favour.

Garry

[Benz Dr.]

Here's my point, if there really is one.
 Regardless of whether you pay 15K for a heap or 75K for a nice example, you will still end up with the same amount of money in the car at the end of the day. If you want instant gratification, then you are best advised to buy the best car you can't afford because the market will overtake what you paid in a couple of years anyway and you should not worry too much about it. I paid 12.5K for my car in 1993 which was a fairly high price relative to the actual condition it was in once I had more time to inspect it after I returned to my home. It's worth far more than that today but maybe not as much as if I had that money invested in mutual funds for the past 20 years. I wanted a 5 speed car and I bought the first one I found.

I'm not going to look through all of the pics you glossed over or cars you missed out on - there's always another car around the corner. If you are really serious about buying the right car, then you should have no problem with giving us an idea of what your price range woud be. There have been recent examples of guys on this site wanting fairly exspensive items but not wiling to state what they would pay for those things. Many offer help or ideas and yet the calls keep going out. When asked what their budget is, there's never an answer.

I believe there's a policy on items for sale that states that you have to include a price or best offer over a certain amount or your ad gets pulled. Since anyone can go to general discussion and talk about what they would like to do, or buy, or sell, it kind of evades that rule, doesn't it?

 Do I  think you want to buy a car? Yes, I do.  Will it happen this year?  Maybe.

[Garry]

There has actually been several very good examples that have been offered up by our members and a couple that are still out there that members have put out on consignment.

[cabrioletturbo]

Keep looking, Erics, the next one may be around the corner for you.

Being in similar shoes (tied to a chair), i understand the predicament. Here is what i do: when there is an opportunity (like the one you are after), i get up and go. No work chair can keep me there. Dont get discouraged by our elderly here who would like to help run your budget and your opportunities. They are there to help, just cant help you enough at the moment.

Keep looking. Dont get discouraged, please.

Looking forward to pictures of your soon-to-be, newly acquired pagoda.

[JamesL]

Eric

How wedded are you to LHD?
http://www.silverarrows.co.uk/1968-mercedes-benz-280sl

Compared to some this looks "decent" value, gives some scope for playing with the interior - plenty of folk here can recommend help on that front - and is local...

[Erics]

I think, i prefer lhd bc unlike some of the other cars i own, i think i want to keep it a while meaning taking it to mainland Europe.
I know the car below. My friend Raj considered buying it. But it really is a car needing complete resto.
The blue 250sl he had i considered (drove it) but the hairpin co car car at £80k was way better value.
What i found with Mike Lever is that his cars are often deceptive when you see them up close.

Eric

How wedded are you to LHD?
http://www.silverarrows.co.uk/1968-mercedes-benz-280sl

Compared to some this looks "decent" value, gives some scope for playing with the interior - plenty of folk here can recommend help on that front - and is local...

This week was really peculiar as it was my industry week and clients converging to london. I tried 3 times to free myself to go see the car that was being serviced at roger edwards. Failed, decided to go see Neil on saturday... Called friday night, the car was sold.. Gutted.

Keep looking, Erics, the next one may be around the corner for you.

Being in similar shoes (tied to a chair), i understand the predicament. Here is what i do: when there is an opportunity (like the one you are after), i get up and go. No work chair can keep me there. Dont get discouraged by our elderly here who would like to help run your budget and your opportunities. They are there to help, just cant help you enough at the moment.

Keep looking. Dont get discouraged, please.

Looking forward to pictures of your soon-to-be, newly acquired pagoda.

Tbh i stopped looking actively for a while as i bought a bmw i8 and got occupied with it... Then randomly, i came across a 280se 3.5 which i sort of fell in love with. That distracted me.
Now comes the spring, summer season and all the cars that got stuck over the winter months are moving, even some of the over priced tat that i previously saw, drove.
Not being a 'summer' buyer, i'll wait for the darker months if needs be.

Here's my point, if there really is one.
 Regardless of whether you pay 15K for a heap or 75K for a nice example, you will still end up with the same amount of money in the car at the end of the day. If you want instant gratification, then you are best advised to buy the best car you can't afford because the market will overtake what you paid in a couple of years anyway and you should not worry too much about it. I paid 12.5K for my car in 1993 which was a fairly high price relative to the actual condition it was in once I had more time to inspect it after I returned to my home. It's worth far more than that today but maybe not as much as if I had that money invested in mutual funds for the past 20 years. I wanted a 5 speed car and I bought the first one I found.

I'm not going to look through all of the pics you glossed over or cars you missed out on - there's always another car around the corner. If you are really serious about buying the right car, then you should have no problem with giving us an idea of what your price range woud be. There have been recent examples of guys on this site wanting fairly exspensive items but not wiling to state what they would pay for those things. Many offer help or ideas and yet the calls keep going out. When asked what their budget is, there's never an answer.

I believe there's a policy on items for sale that states that you have to include a price or best offer over a certain amount or your ad gets pulled. Since anyone can go to general discussion and talk about what they would like to do, or buy, or sell, it kind of evades that rule, doesn't it?

 Do I  think you want to buy a car? Yes, I do.  Will it happen this year?  Maybe.

Good advice. I am half tempted to book the rosier car. It is VERY expensive though. Double the initial budget. But pretty much exactly what i am after. Maybe more in fact. The thing is, at this price point, there are a lot of cars, choice and i know that i could buy a project car for £35k and get it built for far less than the rosier car. To my exact, precise spec.

So to answer dr Benz, there is a budget. Errr. £50-£115k depending on the car. The hairpin car was £80k and pretty much perfect for me and for the price.

Be patient.  The right car will come along.  If you find one pluck down a deposit until you can go see it.  Good luck!

[stickandrudderman]

I have a very nice 280Sl here that is for sale.
You can come and see it and decide for yourself whether it meets your requirements at 80K.

[JamesL]

It wouldn't be metallic light blue with cognac leather would it?

[stickandrudderman]

904 blue with cream leather, a proper combination!

[JamesL]

Sounds lovely!

[Erics]

I have a very nice 280Sl here that is for sale.
You can come and see it and decide for yourself whether it meets your requirements at 80K.

Hi Colin, pm'd.

[Liquid silver]

Eric's
I have a very nice nut and bolt restored 230 LHD for sale if your interested