Author Topic: lower chrome strips  (Read 9699 times)

pj

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lower chrome strips
« on: August 19, 2014, 07:36:38 »
Hi everyone,
I'd like to tackle this topic again, and beg your patience. I have searched the Forum every which way I can think of, and there are plenty of mentions of the lower chrome strips but no one definitive thread that I can find. And of course the Technical Manual (which is so well-structured and just waiting for content) doesn't have any organized description that helps. Jeepers.

First of all, here's a pic of the 4 pieces (of 14 in total, incl the ones behind the rear wheels,) that are not already attached to my car. These are aluminum, right? Can scratches and blemishes in aluminum be taken care of like for the heavier chromed pieces? I sure hope so. Then the pieces can be re-chromed, right? They tell me it's a different process than re-chroming, say, the bumpers, but still standard work. All this must be left to professionals, experts in "bright work," I presume. The guy in town here, who Dan knows, did a good job on my hardtop trim pieces, so I hope to get him to do these 4 as well.

Once the pieces are re-born oo-la-la, they gotta go back on the car. Lots of pix available about where to locate them. Not a problem for me since the long piece on the door is already there (and I presume in the correct position) for alignment. Next question is how to attach my lower trim? They tell me it's possible to use epoxy or glue or whatever and just bond them on to the metal body panel once and for all. Your thoughts? I'm disinclined to do that, if for no other reason than it deviates from the original construction.

So the standard procedure for the lower trim, I gather, is to have holes in the body panel. 2 for the front piece and 3 for the back piece. I want to know: is that how the factory did it? The upper trim gets screwed on and the screws are covered by the rubber inserts, but that isn't how the lower trim is attached. In thread 14431.0, Guest Wymlen wrote "The lower chrome side strips are fixed to the wing and aluminium door panel with self tapping screws." I think he's just wrong. Or?

On my car, all 4 corners around the doors had new patch panels put in when I bought the car. (There were rust holes that needed to be fixed before the car could earn a licence in Ontario, Canada.) That's why the lower trim was removed in the first place. But the new body pieces didn't come with holes and my body shop guys didn't drill new ones at the time. (I'm not really sure why not.) So if they have to be drilled new, is there a required size or is it just a matter of making sure the holes match whatever next step I choose?

Okay, I checked our most reputable parts suppliers, i.e. K&K, Miller's, SLS and Authentic. They all offer some kind of clip-plug-insert thingee. But nowhere can I find an explanation of which piece fits into what. Bob Possel posted pix a few years ago in thread =9729.0 that shows blue and yellow thingees pressed into the body before the trim goes on. Thread =14773.0 is about removing the chrome pieces, but doesn't talk about how to re-attach them. Mike Mizesko in one of this year's most popular threads, =19883.50, writes about "re-drilling holes for side chrome trim after we welded them (before the paint job) shut because the holes were too big (prior owner had them riveted)... all those blue and yellow and white clips (including the metal stays that are pointy) on the bottom side trim row." So I am guessing here: I should buy a matched pair of clip-plug for each attach-point. That'd be 10 pairs for my purpose. Then, SLS also has a lock washer, otherwise known as an anchor, for each end. That makes another 8 pieces of hardware.

So how do all these pieces fit together? None of the parts suppliers' web pages talk about how their hardware should be assembled. Or should I just not worry my pretty little head about it, and trust that any reputable body shop that has bondoed a Lada will know how to do this?

Thanks for helping me, folks.
Peter J
1965 230SL #09474 named Dagny
2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2014, 11:18:26 »
Hi Peter,
I only have a partial answer for you.
The parts on your picture are supposed to stay aluminum, not chromed. You can find a reputable shop to straighten them and polish them for you, or, if they are pretty banged up as the picture suggests, your cheaper option might be to source better used examples from dismantlers or maybe call Dan Caron (Benz Dr.) who is not too far from you.
I did not attach mine to the body so I can't help you with the clips, but I wouldn't glue them if I were you. It seems like an invitation for moisture to remain trapped underneath.
Good luck,
Jerome

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2014, 12:23:14 »
Quote from: pj
.../....I have searched the Forum.../...

This is a useful posting by Alfred, Naj and others:
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=2981.0

Quote
../.. And of course the Technical Manual (which is so well-structured and just waiting for content) doesn't have any organized description that helps../...

You are right about that, I just looked. Info can be added in the "Chrome" section.
/Hans in Sweden

.
/Hans S

pj

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 13:21:27 »
Thank you, Hans!
Indeed thread =2981.0 addresses this question. Why couldn't I find that? (Perhaps it would be an idea to add links to the Tech Manual, since none of us seem to have the time to edit content there.)

I hope we get a few more replies, both for the sake of breadth of experience and even just because it helps to have the same thing explained in different words.
Peter J
1965 230SL #09474 named Dagny
2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

mmizesko

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2014, 13:55:46 »
Peter,

I just finished my project, where we put the lower "aluminum" garnish strips back on.  There are only 3.  One behind the front wheelwell, one on the door and one in front of the rear wheelwell.  There should be large holes in the steel on the front and back ones, and on the longer one on the door.  The steel is thinner than the aluminum doors, so different clips are required (as specified by Alfred's thread).  Please don't glue anything, you'll hurt your car's value and make future owners despise you.  I would also use the pointy clip holders, 1 on Front and back, at least two on the door (forward and rear), as the door swinging creates force to shift the strips backward.  Don't forget the little white "plugs" which secure the clips.

As for refinishing, Don't get your hopes up.  I had to replace one rear one.  It cost me $92 new from Mercedes Benz dealer.  Alot of money per inch, boy.  Finding these in good condition used is difficult.  Maybe Dan can help.

Hope this helps.

Mike Mizesko
Columbus, OH
1970 280SL 291H Dark Olive

pj

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2014, 21:52:09 »
Hi Mike,
thanks for the reply here. Not sure if you've seen a picture of my car but I'm missing only the 4 short pieces of lower trim (front left, front right, rear left, rear right) because the body shop managed to re-attach the long ones to the doors 4 years ago. The lack of these 4 pieces has bugged me since, so I'd like to get aggressive about doing it now.

I took the 4 aluminum pieces to the plating guy this morning. He says they are suitable for making perfect & they'll be ready Saturday morning. I'll edit this post then to update everyone.

Can you tell me what the procedure is for attaching? First drill the hole, then push the yellow "receptable" into the body. Then put the white "plug" through the pointy lock washer, next slide the white plug into the back of the trim piece. Do this twice for each forward piece and 3 times for the rearward, except you only need one sharp spring (that's what SLS calls the pointy thing) per piece. Then press the piece so white plugs snap into the yellow receptacles securely. Does that sound right? Actually I'd appreciate it if you'd tell it in your own words, in case there's something I have mistakenly assumed. We need to make a YouTube of this.

To pick up on another thread, can you come up and visit or meet somewhere on a weekend in September? School starts soon for me. Oy-vay.
Peter J
1965 230SL #09474 named Dagny
2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

mmizesko

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2014, 22:26:38 »
Peter,

The yellow(or white) ones have a wider gap between the bulb at the end that fits through the hole, and the flat part.  This is to accommodate the thicker aluminum doors.  The ones you want are the blue ones, which have a thinner gap (check out alfred's post again).  Make sure the holes are the right diameter, even if you have to remove the door ones.  If you are drilling holes in the steel, remember to use caulk in the holes as a sealant, as the bare metal is ripe for rust.

Once you have the holes in the front fender(3) and b pillar area(2), then put in the blue clips, followed by one "pointy" thing per trim piece, and then put the white plugs in and push them in with a nail set or round punch.  Once these are in (little flanges should be on top and bottom), then mount the aluminum trim molding (garnish molding) from the top so the clip flanges slide under the lip of the molding.  Then just rap the molding toward the car with a downward force, and the lower lip will "clip in".  Be careful, as the aluminum is thin and can dent easily (so don't use a hammer, just the heel of your palm).  The moldings also go a certain way.  The flat sides go toward the door, and the angles sides go toward the wheel wells.

I am a little concerned about the "plating" your guy is doing.  Make sure he matches the lower door pieces, as the lower moldings are more of a brushed aluminum (satin) finish than the glossy chromed brass of the upper moldings.

Let me know if you need more info.  September may be tight, but I will let you know if I can plan a road trip.

Mike Mizesko
Columbus, OH
1970 280SL 291H Dark Olive

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2014, 00:33:46 »
I am a little concerned about the "plating" your guy is doing.  Make sure he matches the lower door pieces, as the lower moldings are more of a brushed aluminum (satin) finish than the glossy chromed brass of the upper moldings. ..
I would be concerned too. These alu pieces are "bright dip" anodized (see: http://www.symcoat.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52&Itemid=114) and when I inquired about the price to do this it was about 90% of a new one!  I bit the bullet and bought two new ones and sold the scratched ones on eBay  :).
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

pj

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2014, 04:59:42 »
> These alu pieces are "bright dip" anodized
Ooops. I sure didn't know that. I have no eye for texture and colour!
Peter J
1965 230SL #09474 named Dagny
2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

Garry

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2014, 07:18:57 »
On my 280SL they had been pop riveted to the car.  I took them off and the chromer welded up the holes then just polished them up and they came up really well with a satin finish. Even the weld repair blended in just fine.

Garry
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pj

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2014, 15:58:14 »
I'm just back from the plating guy. (BTW, for those of you who count shekels, these 4 pieces plus the trim ring on the drive tunnel around the shifter cost $200 to do.) The aluminum strips look lovely! But. . . they are definitely shiny. The good news is, the lower chrome strips on the doors look like they were made shiny, too, not satin. So things match and now getting new clip-plug-thingees is my top priority.

Garry, regarding the pop rivets. . . are you talking about the upper strips? Because if I understand pop rivets, they go through the chrome piece, right? Meaning that it'd be okay for the upper strips, since a rubber insert covers the pop rivets. But for the lower strips, if you attached them with pop rivets . . . um, wouldn't it look awful?
Peter J
1965 230SL #09474 named Dagny
2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2014, 17:31:54 »
Excellent - they look like brand new and at a very reasonable price!
Good start for a happy weekend.  :)
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2014, 22:26:22 »
The top strips were correctly fitted, the lower had been drilled and pop rivited to the car. A PO’s solution to fitting trim :o :o  And yes they looked bloody awful.

Your trims appear to have come up well
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G
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pj

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2014, 05:33:02 »
Thanks for all your help and suggestions so far, guys. Regarding drilling the holes for the clips, I figure the vertical position is critical, but the horizontal location doesn't really matter so long as the trim strips fit over the clips, right? Are the body panels in these locations hollow, or does the drill go right through?
Peter J
1965 230SL #09474 named Dagny
2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

mmizesko

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2014, 09:39:02 »
PJ,

The front and rears are mostly hollow, but the door panels have structure behind at intervals.  I would strongly recommend finding the right dimensions and making templates to drill into. Even for the front and rear.  The front has three holes, doors 7, and rear 2.  The next owner will greatly appreciate it.

Perhaps someone has one in a body shop that they could forward hole location dimensions for you.  Maybe Andyburns, or Benzdr may have.  You may want to start a new thread with that plea so someone may notice.

Mike Mizesko
Columbus, OH
1970 280SL 291H Dark Olive

pj

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2014, 13:44:47 »
Thanks, Mike. The idea for a template is a good one for all of us. If I I knew how, I would create one and post it as a pdf in our Tech Manual. That's where it belongs. In fact, trolling for thoughts on this topic, I stumbled on a YouTube video where they did exactly that -- except it was for a 2006 Nissan. No help there :-)    The good news is that I don't need to worry about what's inside the doors at the present time, since my lower chrome strips are on the doors already.

P.S. I won't start a new thread just to keep the clutter down.
Peter J
1965 230SL #09474 named Dagny
2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2014, 19:20:11 »
PJ,

I asked andyburns since his lower trim is off right now, but he is laid up with a severe back problem and can't help right now.  Perhaps someone else has their trim off who can help.

Mike
1970 280SL 291H Dark Olive

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2014, 13:08:06 »
PJ,

Tom Kizer offered an explicit diagram which you can use on the bottom of Andy Burns p46 in General discussion Restoration Difficulty.

http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=18284.1125

Hope this avoids drilling into door ribbing at the bottom.

Please let us know if this works well for you,

Mike Mizesko
Columbus, OH
1970 280SL 291H Dark Olive

pj

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2014, 14:14:29 »
Hi Mike,
I have tried to follow Andy Burns whole "reality show" which is well-appreciated by everyone in our community, I'm sure, but I have missed chunks of it so I really appreciate you pointing me to it. The diagram posted by Tom K is just what I need, I think. I hope the link serves to cross the appropriate info from these two threads until someday we can perfect our Tech Manual.

I ordered the required clip-hardware from the Mercedes dealer in Waterloo, Ontario, who were recommended to me by another friend. The parts guy there sent me a drawing with index numbers that are different from either the K&K diagram or the SLS diagram <sigh>. What I asked for was 10 x #46, 10 x #50 and 6 x #48. The stuff arrived in a day-and-a-half and cost me CDN$85. These are the pieces that Naj posted pictures of, and I added a pic I took myself just for a different perspective.

Another buddy of mine who has experience in body work looked at the hardware with me and stressed the importance of drilling the hole in the correct size the first time. Also, the thickness of the metal is critical to having the blue clip snap in.

I must confess the whole idea may go on the shelf because I talked with Dan Caron about having the whole back end worked on. That belongs in another thread, in due time.

Thanks again for all the details, help and encouragement.

Peter J
1965 230SL #09474 named Dagny
2018 B250 4matic named Rigel

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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2014, 18:39:47 »
Hi PJ, just go to the very latest page in the 'reality show' and you will find the information you seek.  Perhaps we should get it moved out of the entertainment section into the correct 'Big boys thread'  ;)
« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 18:52:05 by andyburns »
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
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Re: lower chrome strips
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2014, 01:25:18 »
PJ,

Here are the threads for the clips.  1st one best pics:

http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=2981.0

http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=12437.0

http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=18100.0

Just remember that the aluminum doors are thicker than the steel pillar areas, and the yellow ones for the doors have a wider "notch"

Once you drill the holes, make sure you lightly paint the bare metal hole, and consider putty as well, as these holes are rust magnets.

I think you only need 4 metal pointies per side.  The door is most susceptible to sliding due to the swinging and slamming.

Please tell us how you make out.

If you need rear tail work, K&K makes excellent lower tail sections, which can be welded in, vs fabrication on the fly.  Too many precise curves to replicate well in the shop.

Mike
1970 280SL 291H Dark Olive