Fuel injector Bosch DC8C45R1

[zdzich]

Can anyone tell me please at what pressure the fuel injector should open ? Fuel injector by Bosch DC8C45R1. I couldn't find any specifications for this injector. Is there anyway to rebuild those injectors ? They are quite expensive and I think I have to replace all 6. Thank you.

[WRe]

Hi,
good fuel injectors should open at min. 15 -18.5 Bar. Some 'research' see here here: http://www.beetle.homepage.t-online.de/Einspritzduesen%20Pagode%20W113.htm (includes films to show spray images).
...WRe

[mbzse]

.../... Fuel injector by Bosch DC8C45R1.../.. Is there anyway to rebuild those injectors ?

No, not as far as I know. Ultrasound bath cleaning can be performed, there is a screen filter on the inlet of the nozzle

They are quite expensive and I think I have to replace all 6

Be aware, the R1 type is not available anymore. You need to go for R2
/Hans in Sweden

.

[wwheeler]

You can send injectors to Gus at Pacific Fuel in South San Francisco. He will ultrasonically clean and test them inexpensively. If you are having a specific problem, tell him and he will know what to do. I would clean and test before replacing if possible.

[watson2]

Hi guys. I try to take advantage by this discussion , to avoid to open a new topic and to demonstrate that I read discussions and I search before opening ...

I replaced the fuel injectors on my 230 SL '64 and so I wanted to make some experiments on the old ones
to see if it's possible to recover them.
So as on Mercedessource, I want to build up a pump to make spray tests (working with mechanical parts is my amusement)  but I need two informations.
1) which is the liquid that can be used without risk of rust to clean injectors in an ultrasonic bath
2) which is the lliquid to use for spray tests with the manual pump

Thank you

 

[Ulf]

To my knowledge, these tests can be performed by most Bosch centres http://www.boschcarservice.us/FindSvcCenter/Pages/FindingaServiceCenter.aspx :-)

[watson2]

To my knowledge, these tests can be performed by most Bosch centres http://www.boschcarservice.us/FindSvcCenter/Pages/FindingaServiceCenter.aspx :-)

I thank you Ulf.
But I imagined that it was possible to obtain all that in one of the Bosch centers of the next door in Milan.  But it's for personal amusement that I wanted to make this test personally.
And my question was made to learn something new.

[Ulf]

Ok, guess we men are like that - not always taking the easy route and being more process-oriented vs result-oriented ;-)

Ulf

[watson2]

Ok, guess we men are like that - not always taking the easy route and being more process-oriented vs result-oriented ;-)

Ulf

The result that I want to obtain is to have fun and to learn something new, as I told to you.
So I'm amusement-oriented ; in this way the result will be obtained, for sure, regardless the end of my injectors.

You give for granted that the results on the injectors that I could obtain are not the best.
If the thing involved an injection pump,  I agree:  it should be impossible any result without Bosch centers, absolutely.
But if you had the opportunity to see how DC8C45R2 injectors are tested ,  you would have seen that the procedure takes more time to be prepared than to be executed.
The things to do are just a few and the hardware is really a little thing.  About 225 psi for a good pattern of spray , the sound , no drops. Please, look at the Kent Bergsman site. You will see.
I also saw in person these test and that are really simple.
The cleaning with a 50W ultrasonic bath  (24,50 €) is easy and the only things that are  missing are the names of the fluids.
So if someone knows that names I will be gratefull for the information.
Ciao

[Benz Dr.]

I think some places use a jewelery cleaner type of solution for their ultrasonic bath.
 Injectors are tested with some type of test oil. It's definately not a fuel of any type. I think toxic vapours and fire would be some of the primary concerns with your testing formulation. 

[mdsalemi]

It's definately not a fuel of any type. I think toxic vapours and fire would be some of the primary concerns with your testing formulation.  

Though it wasn't "old" fuel injectors like ours, but more modern, current production ones--I've seen them tested at Bosch (you know, the people that make them?) and they indeed used fuel. Testing was with high pressure fuel rail systems so it definitely wasn't the same kind of set up as we had. It was in a specific, controlled environment under a blast hood (for lack of a better word) where safety rules were paramount. I had to leave my cell phone outside. The fuel was the EPA standard test fuel, Indolene which is basically a purified gasoline/petrol w/o additives.

While I'm not a fuel engineer, I would guess that you'd want to see your test fluid the same viscosity as the working fluid, else your flow rates, spray patterns, and pressures would deviate...right?

Do not try this at home.

[mnahon]

If you look at Kent Bergsma's various videos, he seems to use diesel fuel as a test fluid, because it's less volatile; and carb cleaner as a cleaning fluid. He does say the carb cleaner is pretty aggressive.

I was also thinking of giving it a try. And possibly still showing up a PUB alive and not scorched.

[ctaylor738]

I have a Bosch tester and have always used BG-44 additive as a liquid for cleaning and testing.

[watson2]

I think some places use a jewelery cleaner type of solution for their ultrasonic bath.
Injectors are tested with some type of test oil. It's definately not a fuel of any type. I think toxic vapours and fire would be some of the primary concerns with your testing formulation.  

Even if it's not a fuel of any type it could be flammable. And my investigations will concern first of all these 2 factors : toxicity and danger of flames. Then a viscosity as near as possible to the one of normal fuel and the guarantee that does not produce rust.

Though it wasn't "old" fuel injectors like ours, but more modern, current production ones--I've seen them tested at Bosch (you know, the people that make them?) and they indeed used fuel. Testing was with high pressure fuel rail systems so it definitely wasn't the same kind of set up as we had. It was in a specific, controlled environment under a blast hood (for lack of a better word) where safety rules were paramount. I had to leave my cell phone outside. The fuel was the EPA standard test fuel, Indolene which is basically a purified gasoline/petrol w/o additives.
While I'm not a fuel engineer, I would guess that you'd want to see your test fluid the same viscosity as the working fluid, else your flow rates, spray patterns, and pressures would deviate...right?
Do not try this at home.

Thank you mdsalemi for your advice , but I'm not going to make at home tests with 500 or 600 Atm. With high pressures circuits the precautions that you described are fully justified.  On the contrary the pressure which we are speaking about  will be just a little more than the one produced by  a compressor for domestic use.
And  I'll pay attention to the correct viscosity.

[watson2]

I have a Bosch tester and have always used BG-44 additive as a liquid for cleaning and testing.

Wow !!! Great, ctaylor . Can you share with us some images of your device ? It would be nice and usefull.
Is the cleaning procedure performed with the spray itself or do you use a separate bath or other systems?


 

[Benz Dr.]

As far as I can remember most places use test oil. It gets used once and then it's considered used oil. No one uses gasoline or anything flamable.

[watson2]

Hi guys.
Here it is.
Starting from an idraulic car lifter ( or jack , is it correct?) in some hours I made this.
It's not perfect but it works.
For this moment I used fuel and I'm still alive.

I have seen that new injectors have a treatment of the surface with trivalent chromium.
On the contrary the injectors that have been treated for cleaning are almost white: they have
lost the characteristic jellow color.  In the little pic you can observe all the inj on Bergsma's table.
Is this due to the aggressiveness of the fluid used during the cleaning process?

[Dave H]

On kents mercedessource website you can view his "cleaning video" for a $12 payment through PayPal.
It’s the best $12 I have ever spent.
It shows you all his trial by error learning and the sneaky secrets to cleaning these injectors .
He only gives you a taste of how its achieved on the free videos on you tube.
PS...I had more success with plastic than brass..."now you’re thinking ?"...pay the $12 and find out.
I have no connection to Kent but the guy knows his stuff.
I cleaned 12 injectors out of 12 perfectly last night .
235-250PSI depending on the accuracy of your gauge,
Mine now all fire at 235 and immediately seal with no leak down at 210psi so I know my 600psi gauge is slightly out.
The atomisation is so fine and they chirp like little birds.
To say I’m pleased is an understatement.
I have mentioned the cleaning method in a bit more detail in the general discusion thread.

[watson2]

On kents mercedessource website you can view his "cleaning video" for a $12 payment through PayPal.
It’s the best $12 I have ever spent............................................................
...
I have mentioned the cleaning method in a bit more detail in the general discusion thread.

Ok Dave. I found a lot of video on You tube published by Bergsma and in Kent's site. You are very kind if you can
give the  link for the Kent's video that you advice (could be this ?: https://mercedessource.com/store/mfi-fuel-injector-tester-assembly-testing-and-cleaning-operations-demand-video)

and the one of the general discussion thread about cleaning.
I will buy with pleasure the video and I will read with great attention your discussion.
Thank you.

[Dave H]

That is the video link.
You pay with paypal ,your e mails your log in and you choose a password.
You can then watch it 5 minutes after paying.
You cant copy it but can watch it as many times as you like.
The cutaway injector is an eye opener, the filter is nothing like i expected.

[watson2]

Thank you Dave. But can you give to me the link for your discussion about cleaning?

P.S. Your Fiat 500 is the old or the new one?

[Dave H]

Its on the forum under general discussion.
Third thread down is "injector cleaner"
The 500 is the new one unfortunately....my wifes car.

[watson2]

Many , many thanks for your advice, Dave . You were right when you said that was well spent money.
Now I will read your discussion.
Ciao

[Larry & Norma]

My injector tester, uses a pump designed for plumbing applications.
Only £35 but needs an adapter to the injector to be fabricated.
Works great although it doesn't 'pop' so much as gush as I think
the pump volume is a bit high! I use diesel and carb cleaner mixed.