1964 230SL restoration in UK

[Scottcorvette]

Hello all. My name is Scott Groves and a year ago I bought a 230SL at auction. I had gone for a BMW 3.0 CSA to use as a daily but it was a bit too rough so I passed on that one, the next in line was a Volvo P1800 ES but that went for too much money. All the time I kept looking at this very forlorn looking Mercedes......

I knew next to nothing about these cars and called my wife Ronni from the auction to get her to look on the net and see if this may be a viable project, parts availability etc and she called back with some useful info, next thing I'm the new owner of a 230SL 4 speed car. Absolutely not what I went for as I already had a 1965 Mustang fastback project on the go that I was getting a little fed up with and wanted something to use, but best laid plans and all that.

The Mercedes seemed in basically good shape and fairly complete, but I think I had rose tinted spectacles on that day, I was suffering a bit of buyers remorse and when it arrived things didn't improve greatly. The car was described as a running project but at the time of sale the auction house couldn't get it to run, this was a condition of sale so they did get it going and on arrival Ronni and I took it for a quick run up the road. I had intended to get the car MOT'd and use it for a month or so in it's scruffy state to try and appraise a bit further but the brake booster was bad, the tyres were bad, pretty much everything was bad so I took it home and just thought about it all for a bit.

This is the car as it arrived at my shop:

[stickandrudderman]

At least it doesn't look like it's been messed about with. Nice gaps and crisp lines. Is it rotten?

[Scottcorvette]

So once at home I got to looking a bit harder at the car, I'd already got it on a lift at work and found the solid floor pans were not so solid, the tail light panel is no good, there is rust around the rear fender arches, and some around the rear frame rails too, but that seemed to be all there was. I got in touch with the Mercedes classic centre and they gave me copies of the data card which was interesting. I started looking around the web in earnest and came across this website, which has been invaluable so far.

Over the last year I have been working on the Mercedes as and when I can/feel like it. It has been a busy year for me, the mustang is pretty much finished now, my wifes Karmann Ghia needed the heater channels and rockers replacing, along with a lot of sheet metal work, this was frustrating as I had had a lot of that work already done but that's another story. So attention now turns to the 230SL.

Some of the rust:

[Scottcorvette]

I would say it isn't rotten. There are issues here and there but on the whole it seems very good. As you say shut lines are all very nice.

As I started to research a bit more I started to learn about things like fender notches, front fender spot welds etc etc. The nice thing about this car is that the front fenders are all original and seem perfect. The car has been painted a couple of times and so the fender notches are there but nowhere near as obvious as some of the photos I have seen.

The fender spot welds are all perfect, and the car has most of the original undercoating on the underside of the fenders, and is lovely. The nose panel has had a dent pulled out at some time but that is the only work needed on the front end. All the trouble seems to be at the back:

[Scottcorvette]

And this is the current state of play. I took the engine and transmission out last week. Pretty much all the trim is removed. I have steam cleaned everything and will remove the front and rear suspension next week.

Once that is done I will try and mount the car to our rotisserie so I can steam clean underneath a bit more thoroughly and then start stripping the paint. Once that is done I can get the underside and engine bay sandblasted and then assess the car properly. I want to make sure there are no other hidden nasties before I start buying parts.

I own a busy Corvette restoration shop here so am well versed in this sort of work, but will need help with some of the finer sheet metal work. If only Mercedes used GRP.....

My overriding feeling during the strip down has been what a nice car to work on this car is. Everything is so nicely made, the parts prices are making me wince a little though. I am used to Corvette prices, not Mercedes!

That being said, I have very much fallen in love with this car, despite the drain it will be on my bank account. Will I still feel this way in another years time?

[andyburns]

Hi Scott,  the car reminds me very much of mine when I first got it.  Same year and color.  Am interested in what your color code is.  Looks as if its a dark red?  Think you will keep it all original?

I will also be interested to see how long it takes you and what you think at this point of proceedings.  I gave myself 6-8 months when I first started but two years latter still chipping away.  One spine latter!  You are obviously a pro with the right gear so am picking you will churn it out in far less time.   I really hope you keep up the posts in here I have really enjoyed looking at the ones you have put up thus far 

PS The corvette in the background looks absolutely beautiful.  Have always had a soft spot for those.  What year is that one 57 ish?

[JamesL]

Scott - welcome and I am sure your tale of buyers remorse is more common than you'd imagine. As Andy says, at least you have the skills and kit to overcome the problems! It'll be lovely when it's done. I'll bring mine up one Saturday if you're around. Would I be right in saying you were selling a loud coloured (lime?) 911 2.7 recently?

[Scottcorvette]

Hi Andy

The car was originally burgundy red 573G with a natural MBTex interior and natural soft top. I am wrestling with myself on this one as I like cars to be in their original colour, but at the same time, if I am to invest all this time and money into the car then I tend to also want to do them in the colour scheme I would have chosen were I able to propel myself back to 1964 and walk in to an MB dealership to treat myself to a new Mercedes!!

I have blown hot and cold on colours a bit, initially going to go for a dark met blue with cognac, then silver with red, and I think my current choice is a gunmetal grey with a red leather interior. Whatever colour I choose it will be a Mercedes colour from 1964. I will only ever paint a car period factory colours. I have never been real strong on maroon cars although there was a picture of a car posted recently in 573 dark red and it did look lovely, I don't know if it is for me though.

With regard timescales, as this car is for me and not a client I can only work on it in my spare time, so it is evenings and Saturdays only, I can steal the odd day but not much. We are open on Saturdays but it is the day I tinker with my own projects. I anticipate that this will be another 18 months - 2 years before this one is done. I have had the car a year already but only done bits and pieces - now it's time to get serious!

The Corvette in the background is a 67 tripower that we did a body off on for a client, no body or paint, just the chassis work. It is my wife and I that do the work and I have a young lad a couple of days a week so it is pretty full on. This is my place www.corvetteuk.com for those that may be interested.

As a footnote, yours is one of the threads that has really helped me in a lot of ways, and has certainly inspired me to carry on with the project. This is without doubt the finest car related website I have ever been on. You guys certainly know your onions on these cars, and are also very helpful with it.

This is a photo of the rocker showing the original colour:

[Scottcorvette]

Hi James

That would be great! Be good to have a look around another car and get a few pointers, be nice to have a ride in one too....

Yes the bright green Porsche was mine, I bought it from the same auction to use for a bit, I'd never had a 911 and wanted to try one before they got out of my reach financially. I only had the car a few months as it was never going to be a keeper, just something I wanted to get out of my system. I sold it to a nice guy from Scotland, and he drove it from Norfolk to the highlands with no problems. Now if I could only find a sensibly priced 356.

I'm going back to the same auction this afternoon, I really should stay away.

[JamesL]

I shall PM you next time I am up near my car - it's near Diss

[Jonny B]

Scott, welcome to the group. As you have already noted, the folks are the site are ready to assist. BTW, excellent and clear picture of the empty engine bay showing the VIN on the right front subframe arch, clear and unmolested.

[andyburns]

Scott, I know what you mean about wanting to keep the color original.  It tore me for quite some time.  Mine was also a rare shade of light red which Mercedes only did for a year or two.  Obviously not very popular so they discontinued.  I have seen a 230 in Maroon.  Very regal look very much like the dark blues.  Its all personal preference I guess.  In saying that I did have exactly the same philosophy as you in that I ended up painting it the scheme I would have ordered from the factory.   As long as its done properly I personally dont see anything wrong with color changes.  When I got my car the engine bay was red and the exterior was a non MB gold which grated me somewhat!  At least you have two shades of the same color hue to begin with

I agree with the other guys in that your car looks quite good on the surface.  Suppose until all the paint is off you wont know for sure, but the signs seem good!  Will be interesting to see more of the dis-assembly photos as you get into it.  Will also be interesting to see how it all compares to the American tin you are used to tinkering with.

Your site is fantastic.  Pawed over all the photos in the gallery.  Am in love with the 50's vettes.  If I won lotto I would definitely be adding one to my collection!.   Also very envious of your workshop.  I wish I had the space to put in a hoist.  Have been working off very limited space for two years.

Have you ever come across a crowd called Jaymic who are a BMW shop who are somewhere close by to you?  I have been dealing with them for 2002 parts for 20 years now.  Started my car days with 2002's

[Scottcorvette]

JonnyB, Thanks.

It was the thing that attracted me to the car so much at the outset is that it did look so straight and unmolested. You could see that whilst it had been painted a long time ago, the body was very straight, and the only surprises so far have been the rust in the floor, and a little bit in the reara chassis legs by the rear wheel. It is a shame about the floors as 90% of them look great, but I figured if I have to replace one, and then a little bit on the each of the other 3 I may as well replace them all.

A better picture of the VIN, I would like to prime the car in the same grey primer so I can try and replicate these details. Any ideas on what to use?

[Scottcorvette]

Andy when my car was repainted they did a pretty thorough job. As I have been dismantling I have found silver on the windshield frame. I did wonder if this was factory under the chrome but then I found maroon under that so I guess the whole windshield frame was painted body colour?

They must have stripped the paint then because it is bare metal under the red. I guess it will all show up then. I am hoping to have the paint stripped and underneath blasted by Christmas.

In comparison to working on a Corvette, in some respects  the SL is easier to work on, in some not. I particularly like the way all the trim attaches on the Mercedes, on a Vette it is all self tappers and rivets, you get the impression that the Mercedes is really 'put together' but I would expect that given the price difference when new and the expected difference in build quality between the brands. I also really like the way the wiring harnesses are made. Having said all that a Corvette is actually a very well put together car, especially when compared to Ford products of the day. My Mustang is a real flimsy old thing next to the Corvette, and an early Corvette really is a wonderful car.

The Merecedes has been nice to work on so far, in fact Ronni says I seem very happy and at peace with everything when I am working on it.... all I have done so far though is dismantle and that is relatively straight forward, I have taken over 300 photos as I strip down so far as a memory aid, and this site has been worth the membership fee over and over. I had a Citroen SM a couple of years back and that car had me in tears trying to change a water pump seal, but what a car!!

I know of Jaymic, they are not far from us but I have never been there. I like 2002's though, there has been a couple of turbos for sale here recently but for big bucks.

[Scottcorvette]

Here are a couple more pictures from when I got the car, the trunk floor is really nice. The gas tank was rotten when I took it out though. When I turned it over there were little fountains of gas going everywhere. I suspected it might be an issue as there was a coating of tank sealant in the filler neck, need to try and figure whether to get the tank cleaned and repaired, or bite the expensive bullet of a new tank. We are having to replace a lot of Corvette tanks at the moment so I think it is becoming more and more common as all our cars get older, difference being a Corvette tank is $200 not $1200.

Here are a few of the interior also, I am missing a few parts here, I need the grilles for the seat backs, I have the wrong clock and I need a radio. I was also unsure about the shift knob being black and the steering wheel being ivory, any thoughts?

I think the dash in these cars is absolutely stunning, and it's so comfortable. I am hoping to put a 5 speed transmission in if I can find one, and I think I'd like to go power steering on it also.

And talking of build quality...the rear emblem is wonky, yet I am sure it is the original decklid and there is only the one set of holes for the emblem. I guess it will become clear when the paint is off but it is looking like my decklid emblem may well have been their last job on a Friday.

[andyburns]

Scott, your car must have been late 63 looking at the vin.  Mine was chassis number was 2718 and was sometime in Feb or early March.

I had the same issue with you with aftermarket radios and incorrect clock etc.  These types of things really add to the cost of the restoration to get them right.  You are looking at the best part of a 500-800 squid for a decent correct period small face backer and clocks are not far behind.  I just started collecting them, spacing the purchases out so the wife wouldn't get to alarmed.

In saying that it sounds as if yours is a one in a million find.  Did I get it wrong that she actually works on the cars with you!   I read this to my wife in bed this morning and asked her if she would mind helping me refit the exhaust.  Even with a dodgy back I still got a hoof in my side!

Another thing which stood out to me is the dash.  The early 230's had a very chiseled well defined dash.  It looked very 50's to my eye.  Before all the PC safety stuff came in.  Someone has redone your dash with what looks like wadding.  I think the factory did it with 3-4mm foam.  The front edge was a piece of dense glued on rubber that gave the very chiseled front edge.  You will find heaps of stuff in here about it. 

I dont think the rear vents on the back of the seats will be too expensive.  I have seen them on ebay before for a reasonable price.  The thing with these is all the small 'additional' purchases seem to go through the roof when you add them all up.  I have just stopped doing it.

I dont know what it is about the gas tanks in other countries.  They all seem to rust to hell.  I have pulled apart dozens of them here and have yet to find one that wouldn't scrub perfectly.  Perhaps its the salt on the roads or additives that are put in the fuel.  Who knows. 

In any event keep the photos rolling.  Can you get some of the underside for us.  Thats where the real critique will start.  I am interested to see how bad your pans are.  I elected to carefuly weld in replacement sections reproducing the factory swages as closely as possible.   I am certain it was much quicker that ripping everything else out and starting again.  Also I preserved at least 90 percent of the factory under seal which is very very hard to reproduce.

Just out curiosity how much would the 56-57 vettes be worth now. 

[jameshoward]

Welcome. Looks like you've saved a nice car, though as you note she'll cost a bit to put right.

Andy is spot on about the dash. If you think it looks nice now, the sharper edges of the original profile really add to the look.

The only other point to add is that you have the US style rear lights with red indicators. Given your work on the Vettes you probably have a tame testing station. But if not when you MOT the car make sure you've looked up on tinternet and printed off that part of the regs that addresses indicator colours. In the UK they have to be orange for cars built after (I think) Apr 65, with a 6 month grace period that takes you out to something like Sep 65. (can't recall exactly, but the info in online and on this site somewhere after my very expensive faff on this issue).

JH

[RobSirg]

Scott,

Welcome to group - I'm also kicking off my second restoration. This 2nd car (Dark red) also had rusted floors, etc, and I paid a lot more than you did (but Aust delivered RHD's tend to be worth a lot). Colour is a big thing for me and I am happy with the ones I have, however, if I was teleported back to 1970 and walked in to a Mercedes Dealership........ I would order a Gunmetal Grey 280SL with Cognac (or red) interior, ivory steering wheel and tinted glass all round. (BTW - I think a 230SL is clearly the prettiest Pagoda - but I went for a 280SL because of the drive-ability and investment value).

I believe the shift knob was originally black but you could get an ivory one as a dealer fitted option. I believe in staying with the original colour myself but will change the steering wheel and shift knob to ivory.

Warning - these cars really grow on you - especially once you start driving them............ you'll never tire of the attention and compliments either.

Cheers

Rob

[Scottcorvette]

Thanks fellas. Nice to get some good feedback and a a bit of a boost also. I know what you mean regarding the dash, I had seen photos of the more chiselled dash pads and they look really good. The interior in mine looks very home made. The wood in mine completely fell apart also. I did buy some from a member here but it doesn't match my speaker grille very well so I will keep looking. I should imagine I'll wind up getting new wood.

James I did toy with the idea of changing to amber lenses for the rear indicators for safeties sake here in the UK, but I really like the all red lenses so will look for new ones of those. I also really like the USA style headlight treatment too. Had I been looking for a Pagoda in the first instance then these might have been considerations, I also didn't know the difference between 230, 250 or 280's at the time. It just seemed such a sad looking old thing and I thought I could give it a good home!

I'll keep putting pictures up.  I also take videos of customers cars as a record for them. I have done the same for the Mercedes. I have uploaded the first two on to youtube in case anyone would like to see. They are hardly family viewing but I think some of you guys might be interested. I'm sorry I sound so depressed....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj89InDrob8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvEbDeMDNHo

Andy a 56/57 Corvette in the UK is £50-60,000 good driver quality, more for a real pearler.

[Scottcorvette]

By the way Andy, my data card is stamped 23 June 1964. I don't know how that stacks up with actual manufacture dates though.

Here is the translation from the classic centre:

Engine: 127981.10.003***

Transmission: 003***

573- Paint, Burgundy Red

114- Interior Trim, Natural Light MB-Tex

401- Single seats

493- H.D. heat exchanger U.S. Version

503- Outside rearview mirror, on the left

525-1 kg lacquer

641- White-wall tires

663- 50 liters of fuel

730- Folding top fabric, Beige

835- Coir mats

Front left axle- 046439

Front right axle- 046387

Rear axle—004453

Steering box- 223450

Wheel- 5,5 J x 14 H

Tire- 185 x 14 Phon

[KevinC]

Scott,

Here are pics of Forum member Urban Janssen's (UJJ) car in the event you wanted to see these two colors together.

Kevin

[KevinC]

And here's Don Pemberton's 250SL. Actually a slightly different shade

[andyburns]

Scott, the videos are great.  Guarantee you will go back to them time and time again as the restoration progresses.  I didn't take any videos which I now regret but did take thousands of photos which have proved invaluable.   The number of times I have had my bacon saved by taking a photo of a particular subject only to inadvertently capture another in the background.  It always seems to be the accidental subject in the background that's the useful one!!! 

Another great coup is that I have been taking photos with a digital SLR at 15mp.  The ability to zoom in on things has been fantastic.  Checking to see if washers are under bolts and the like.  Sounds like I probably dont have to pass on these tips to you though. 

If you ever need them I can send over the entire collection of photos on a memory stick.  Might prove useful pulling the car apart knowing where fasteners and the like are.   I have categorized the photos into logical groups which has been helpful.  Unless you are careful with these puppies you end up breaking little bibs and bobs which really add to the total cost.  Nothing on these cars are particularly cheap. Patience isn't one of my strong points which has ended up costing me dearly.

I cant wait for your reaction when you get into pulling the dash apart.  Start looking for an old mattress as you will be spending quite a few hours on your back.  I also found anti inflammatory pills quite helpful.  Hopefully this site will make that journey a bit more bearable than if you tackled it cold.

In any event I am personally happy to help out in any way I can.  Have only an amateurs knowledge but am still keen to pass on an learning's, good or bad, if it will help.  Don't hesitate to ask.

[Scottcorvette]

Kevin thanks for that. The colour I had in mind was a metallic grey, similar to this:

http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=21165.0

This was the blue that appealed:

http://www.watchcollectinglifestyle.com/home/mercedes-benz-280-sl-pagoda-a-saturday-afternoon-classic

Or silver, looking at those pictures I think the blue may be back in the running...

[Scottcorvette]

Andy I appreciate that. I'm sure there will be areas that I have forgotten to photograph and will forget how it goes back together. I may well call on you for the photos.

I already got the dash out. I did that whilst the car was at my house. It has only been at the workshop for the underneath stuff, most of it has been done at home in my single car garage. I have just had a new garage built with a bit more room in it though so the reassembly should go a bit easier. I didn't find the under dash work too bad, once the head scratching was done. I also have an extensive knowledge of swear words that I can call on when needed.

These are the last two videos that show the car in it's current state. I had last week off work and left the young lad to hit it all with the steam cleaner so all the muck is gone, there was even a cigarette end lodged in the grease on top of the transmission...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWNkcPburCg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2mAdZnnI78