1964 230SL restoration in UK

[Scottcorvette]

So it looks like the painting mask for the wheel centres may well be on it's way to me shortly. I suppose I will have to get off the fence and pick a colour. I have shown a few friends the photos and the general feeling is that anthracite grey is the way to go, with a red or dark red interior. I have asked a painter for a colour sample but as yet haven't seen it. I know it isn't correct for my car but I think it would have been available in 1964?

I will need to get some interior and soft top colour samples, I gather GAHH is going to be my best bet for interior parts? I will also need the early style soft top too as my frame has the wooden bows and I don't want to have the same problems Andy had with his, I also don't want a top that is so tight it is a paint to erect, I had that on a Sunbeam Alpine when I was a kid and it really spoilt the car for me, I want it snug but not so snug you struggle to get it up. I was thinking either grey or black for the top. Any pointers on the best quality kit?

I think I may be missing some trim, my VIN Is 4260, should I have a chrome strip at the back of my soft top above the window? I think I may also be missing some trim from above the windscreen on the inside of the car, mine had foam stuck to the windshield frame then covered in vinyl, but I wonder if I ought to have a trimmed wood capping or something like the A pillar interior trims. If anyone could point me in the right direction on these I'd be grateful.

[Scottcorvette]

So I spent a bit more time yesterday stripping various components, getting some more aluminium parts ready for media blasting, and continuing with my ever increasing nut and bolt catalogue. This is starting to feel a bit old already but if I don't do this I fear I have no hope of remembering where all these little fasteners go once they are plated. Personally I think taking a car apart properly and carefully is of vital importance in a good quality rebuild. I'm sure I'll still forget half of it though.

My car is buried in one corner of the workshop at the moment and I am unable to get it into a position where I can work on it successfully for a little while, so my plan is to strip the few remaining sub assemblies and send all the nuts and bolts away to be plated. By the time I'm done with that I should be able to get the body shell out so I can work on it, then when the car is away being painted I can reassemble all of the smaller bits, rebuild the steering box and column etc, so I am ready for everything to be bolted back on after paint.

I also want to send my floor repair panels etc away to get a light sandblasting so that I have a real good key for the primer to go onto.

I removed the bell housing from the old 4 speed and stripped the pedal box out too so I can get all of that sandblasted and resprayed. I am sending my Getrag 5 speed away tomorrow to be checked and overhauled, so if that get's a clean bill of health I can then order the rest of the 5 speed kit and carry on with that part of the conversion also.

[Scottcorvette]

One of my handbrake cable ends had a crack in it and I had a hell of a job getting it all apart so it hasn't helped it. I also need the shouldered bolt that goes through the roller. It is a shame that the handbrake cable itself is OK and nice and free, but the plastic housing is a bit cracked so I won't want to put it back on with everything else looking minty. This is the problem with this kind of rebuild, where just about everything winds up getting replaced.

[Liquid silver]

Hi Scott
I am aware that you only deal in older vets, mine have all been of the modern variety, 2000 C5, 2005 C6, 20006 C6 Paddle shift and 2010 Grand Sport.
If you are going to the NEC this year I will be on the MB Club stand on  Friday and Sunday as they asked me if I would show my 107. If you are come say hallo and have a coffee, maybe we can sign you up again.

Paul

[Scottcorvette]

i might go to the NEC this year, depends if my mate wants to go or not.

I loaded up the mustang with bits and took a trip out to the sandblaster yesterday, it was the first trip I'd done with the new 5 speed and it has made a big difference, I still have a couple of teething problems to sort out with it but I'll get round to it. I'm glad I bit the bullet with the 5 speed for the Mercedes. I know the 4 speed trans would have spoilt the car for me.

I took the rest of the aluminium parts over to be vapour blasted, along with a few of the steel parts I had stripped, and also the new floor pans etc, The new parts came painted and I wasn't sure how well they would take my primer so I stripped them back to bare metal and they were a bit brown underneath so I figured better to get them blasted, the new parts that came from K&K were bare but I am having those done to give a better key for the primer.

They reckon the vapour blast is so gentle they can do my door latches and plug wire ends without hurting anything, lets hope he's right!

[Scottcorvette]

I have nearly finished getting all the bits ready to go to the plater. I am a bit unsure about the finish on a couple of things though:

The soft top cover catches and latches, one of my catches looks like it may have been yellow cad, the other looks like it may have been black phosphate, I am not sure if it is yellow cad that has been discoloured by black paint over time though. On the soft top catches, some parts look yellow, some black.

The two hinges that the cowl/heater flaps hinge on, these have been painted red, the car was originally maroon. These also look like they may have been black phosphate

The bonnet/hood catch, should this be painted or plated?

Anyone know what is right for these parts? I have been able to see on most of the bits what the original finish was but am unsure on these ones.

Also should the door latch bolts be silver zinc, or yellow zinc?

I think the door hinges and bolts were painted over body colour. If that is the case I would be better not having the bolts plated so they take the paint better.

Any ideas?

[JamesL]

Scott

Not saying mine's right but do these help...?

[Jonny B]

The bonnet/hood latch should be black

The door latch bolts on my 280 SL are the same as what James L has posted, not yellow.

The door hinges are painted body color as are the bolts.

Curious about the item you list as cowl/heater flaps. Those look like the hood/bonnet hinges?? If they indeed are, then they should be body color.

Don't have access to the top lid catches (hardtop is on the car)

[Scottcorvette]

Thanks both.. I forgot about the chrome covers over the door latches. I'll get them silver zinc plated so they are the same colour as the latch, I'll see if they will just clean up first.

I thought the bonnet catch looked like it may have been black phosphate plated, same as the deck lid and soft top catches, or at least that is how it looks to me but hard to tell.

Those are not hood hinges, I have had those sandblasted and primed them, these are the brackets that the heater flaps pivot on under the cowl vent, they look like they may have been black phosphate too. I think I'll get those done at the same time. I doubt they will ever get seen again but I'd like to try and get it right.

My door latches are different. I need to try and separate them so I can get one part zinc plated and one part chrome plated. I can buy one side new from MB but not the other, they are very expensive too. I think I can take the heads of the rivet off as long as there is enough room to drill and tap to get a countersunk sets crew in from the back, I may have to leave them pitted and just accept it is what it is.

I must admit this project has gone totally overboard and the car has become something of an obsession with me. It was never intended to be as in depth a restoration as this, trouble is once you start......

[Jonny B]

After thinking about those hinges last night, I figured I might have had a bit of fog on the brain. So I looked again. Yup, I was in the fog. The cowl hinges on my 280 SL are plain metal, they are not painted, neither are the bolts. I can't tell from the angle whether they is any trace of black. I would believe not, the black treatment was used on the early cars, and would not have made it this far into the series (mine is 12730).

[Scottcorvette]

Mine is VIN 4260, I am pretty sure these hinges were black phosphate or similar. I have always believed black phosphate to be a pretty flat black though, my decklid catches particularly look a slightly shiny black, and has variations in colour and depth, almost like a black cadmium plate, if there is such a thing.

I'm still no further on with a decision on seat belts, I would like to get original style belts for this, but would prefer a retractable 3 point harness. If there is anyone out there with a bare shell that can photograph the location of the mount points I'd appreciate it.

I'm also trying to decide what to do regarding a radio, or lack of. Options are:

1. fit a radio blank plate and use a bluetooth speaker
2. fit a radio blank plate and fit an amp with a direct feed from my iphone to four speakers, probably two in the dash top and two in the footwell. I would probably want to use the stock looking footwell speakers, and would fit an active sub under the rear parcel shelf
3. fit a becker europa of correct vintage and stick with the mono speaker in the dash
4. as option 2 but using a later becker europa stereo set

[Jonny B]

That is a fairly early 230 SL so the black may be the case. I am traveling for a couple of days, but will check the "Mercedes Collector" magazines I have, which list all the changes for the 230 SL and see if there is anything in there.

[Jonny B]

I just read through the list of changes for the 230 SL, and did find any reference to the cowl hinge brackets. I have run across several other comments about black versus plate, and did not see any concrete references to other parts or pieces. The only comment was about the tools - at chassis 1700 the tools are listed as having the change to rust protected surfaces. The listing is pretty detailed and I thought there would be a note for this kind of change (or some of the other color/plate changes) but I did not see them.

[Scottcorvette]

I've managed to find traces of original finish on most parts, a couple of them are a bit hazy, I thought originally the cowl vent hinges were body colour but having cleaned and had a better look I am pretty sure they are black phosphate or black zinc. I cleaned the hood strap mounting parts last night and I expected them to be zinc plated, the upper retainer plate was just rusty, but looked bright silver in a couple of spots so think this was either zinc plated or bare steel, the lower retainer was black, I am not sure if plated or painted, but definitely black, and clearly untouched so that is what I will go with but will have it plated black along with some other components.

There were a couple of fasteners that were left bare, some of the pedal box fixtures for example but I am going to have them black phosphate just to give them a little protection and also to make them look smarter, it is either that or just wire wheel them and leave them bare, but they would soon go rusty, or paint them flat black. I'm getting black plating done so may as well chuck them in.

[Scottcorvette]

My replacement Bosch starter arrived yesterday, I went for the smaller more modern equivalent on Naj's recommendation. I am deliberating now on whether to upgrade the alternator to a 55A one, and if so which one, I have been advised to uprate the alternator mount bracket too. It was my intention to keep this car bone stock but I guess that has gone for a ball of chalk now with the 5 speed, although i will try and keep the bulk of the car as close to original as I can.

Things to improve the drive and reliability can't be a bad thing I guess and I am keeping all the original parts....unless someone offers me a fortune for a 4 speed transmission.....

[Jonny B]

I did take a closer look at the cowl hinges on my 250 SL (restored in 2000) I can see that these have traces or yellow plating. Both the top and bottom hood strap mounts are yellow plated (what is still there).

Very cool to get the detail on the early cars, and to note the differences. I wonder when the change was made??

[Scottcorvette]

I looked at them pretty closely and couldn't see any trace of yellow on these parts, for the most part the only indication I'm getting is the trace of original finish left under washers and bolt heads, but it is pretty conclusive on most parts, I'll check them all again before I do anything final, no doubt if I do my hood strap brackets black/silver everyone that sees them will tell me it's wrong anyway....

I bunked off work yesterday afternoon and got my lovely Fiat 130 coupe out as I had some errands to run, I drove the hour to the blasters to collect all the parts I'd just had blasted and vapour blasted, loaded up the car without looking at the parts as they were all boxed up, then drove the hour back. When I unloaded them last night all the aluminium parts had clearly been put in the box still wet, and everything is stained and needs doing again. I had left some of the bolts in as plugs and these have all rusted and streaked over the clean aluminium.

Time is something I am always short of it seems, and having to do another 3 hour round trip to get these done again is frustrating to say the least. I am nervous about sending parts like this by carrier in case they go missing so I'll see if they will meet me half way. I also don't know that I like the finish. I expected it to come out looking like fresh aluminium and really it just looks like it has been lightly sandblasted. I think maybe glass bead would give me a better finish with a slightly satin sheen to it.

[Scottcorvette]

The bell housing looks OK, I shouldn't have had the plug wire ends done as it has pretty much wrecked those, I just wish they had stopped after the first one and not buggered up all 6. They haven't come out very nice anyway so in reality I haven't lost much there as they were too scruffy to refit and I would have had to replace them anyhow.

I have enquired about new plug leads and am waiting for a response. I've seen a set on authentic classics at over $400 and a set for a 280SL at $70 so I'll call them and see what the difference is.

I am planning on fitting 123 ignition, I guess the factory plug wires should work ok with that? Might be worth looking in to before I go spending $$$

That's old cars for you.

[Scottcorvette]

Had a very nice surprise at work today when JamesL popped in for a visit with his Pagoda, lovely to meet you James, and nice to have a ride in his lovely 280SL, has given me a bit of a boost on mine.

Not that I need it, I'm still very enthusiastic about this car , not much done today, too busy chewing the fat, I got the freshly blasted panels primed ready for replacement. I have also just bought a spot welder off ebay, need to figure out how to get it from Yorkshire to Norfolk, but that shouldn't be too much trouble. So there's nothing to stop me getting the floors in now!

I also primed the inside of the rear light panel ready for a topcoat to protect inside a bit. I was going to strip the brake calipers today. Mine have been replaced at some point and have a bright yellow zinc finish, is this correct or should they be a raw casting?

[mbzse]

.../... the brake calipers today. Mine have been replaced at some point and have a bright yellow zinc finish, is this correct

Yes, certainly, at least for ATE type calipers. Maybe pale yellow describes them, not a real bright yellow. See pic attached.
The earlier 230SL with Girlings am I not so familiar with.
/Hans in Sweden
.

[Scottcorvette]

I guess mine are similar to that, not really bright, kind of a gren/yellow. I think I'll leave the finish as is but have the bolts black phosphate so they don't rust.

[JamesL]

Great day, thanks Scott. Great to meet you and your enthusiasm is infectious

Downside of the day: I mentioned your collection to the wife and got as far as the Mustang and her first reaction was "oooh, does he want to sell it?" Like you.... Out of space


Oh, and you do realise we will all want a vote on colour. You have to like it but I quite fancy it's maroon with silver hard top and cognac leather.

[Scottcorvette]

Well the jury is still out on colour....

I managed to sneak in a bit of painting this morning to get some top coat on the parts I primed Saturday. a bit enforced really as there is a 3 day re-coat window on the primer I am using. This is no more than a protection coat, the inside of the original rear light panel was painted in the same colour as the seat frames, as I had had that paint mixed I redid the inside of that panel the same while I redid the seat hinges, it was a bit too glossy before so I had the painters matt it down a little, looks much better now. I even managed to get a few runs in for authenticity....

I also did the inside of the repair panels I have, I know this will get beaten around a bit as they are trimmed and fitted but at least it affords them some protection.

[Scottcorvette]

I had to paint a Corvette engine bay this afternoon so I snuck my pedal box and a few other bits in there too, works all very well but it does rather get in the way of ones Pagoding.....

Anyway it was getting late in the day and had been raining a fair bit, I guess it was a bit too damp and everything has bloomed so will have to do it all again tomorrow.....

FYI the front hubs have only had top coat on the back side, I only gave the front side just a very light black primer after the sandblasting so there is no thickness of paint between the wheel and the hub to cause problems. I will install new bearings so left the races in there to protect those surfaces during blasting and painting.

The ebay spot welder will be here this week so there should be no stopping me now. I'll spend Saturday learning how to spot weld then watch this space!

[Scottcorvette]

I was waiting around at work last night for a car to arrive from Lithuania that I had taken in part exchange...I decided to take a look at my calipers to see if they were worth doing anything with. It had lain in a mechanics shop for 18 or so years and I think this is probably why it was in there in the first place as the calipers look newer than anything else in on the car. I took one apart and everything looks pretty good with the exception of some heavy staining and a bit gummed up.

Now I seldom rekit Corvette calipers as once they are leaking it is kid of 50/50 that they will be ok and that isn't a good enough ratio when you are being paid to do it. Corvette brakes have kind of a poor reputation that is only partially deserved, when they are good they are very good, but they don't like to sit. I'm erring a bit whether to rekit these or replace them, they seem pretty good to me but I wonder whether by the time I have bought a couple of kits, and then had the castings plated I might be near the cost of new ones. New calipers here are £220 each, kits £45 and I guess plating is going to be £40-50 each??

What is the groups opinion on these? The bore feels ok with no noticeable ridges or anything, it looks to me like the bore doesn't really matter too much as the seal is in the bore. The piston was stained and I cleaned it with some 600 grade wet and dry, used wet with brake fluid. The piston cleaned up very nicely. There is a slight shadow where it has sat against the seal foir years but nothing I could feel with my fingernail....speaking of which I really must book a manicure....

So what is the opinion of the group, buy new or go again.....?

I don't want to skimp but I don't want to waste money either, are these brakes troublesome and leaky or normally ok when rebuilt?