Seat belts

[cstinchi]

Hi Folks,
I'm redoing my original seat belts and I was wondering if somebody has a good tip on how to clean 48years old belts from dirt, grease and etc..
Any tips are appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
Caio

[KevinC]

Caio,

I found myself with the same dilemma about 7-8 years back and unfortunately never found a way to clean them. I ended up having the webbing replaced at a place in Texas. They did a decent job matching the khaki color but the large weave isn't legal in the US now so had to go with the more modern material. I'll be checking here for what others have to say though.

 Kevin

[scoot]

I sell restored Kangol 3-point belts (not retracting) for big bucks.  I have never had the Hickok belts redone.   I don't really think it matters too much if they are "DOT Compliant" as much as that they are made out of good seat belt material rather than cheap backpack webbing which is used by some disreputable restorers.

[zoegrlh]

Try the brand LA's Totally Awesome all purpose concentrated cleaner, degreaser, spot remover.  Has no acid, no ammonia, and no bleach.  It cleans over 100 different cleaning problems.  It is sold af Dollar Tree.  Make sure you read the instructions for mixing with water.  Should work with soft brush.
Bob

[cstinchi]

Thank you Kevin.

Thank you Bob for the tip. I already bought the product and will try in a couple of days.
I'll keep you guys posted on how was it.
Caio

[andyburns]

Sorry to hijack the thread but was wondering if anyone could help me.

Has anyone ever seen seatbelts like the ones that came in my car?  I have researched them and they are a German brand.  They look early and are not as sophisticated as the Kangol variants.  They are in lovely condition so I think I will fit them unless they are totally wrong for the car.

Anyone have any ideas?

[mbzse]

.../... They look early .../... I think I will fit them.../...

Just a reflection, safety belts serve a purpose should a bad situation arise. Question then is, are 40+ yrs old belts what you want to rely on, for yourself and passenger
/Hans in Sweden

[cstinchi]

Hi Andy,
My seat belt is made in America and are original to the car. Maybe yours are also original with a different manufactory. Seat belts are an item that can have many variations. This is my understanding.
Regards,
Caio

[114015]

Andy,

Wow,
Schefenacker belts ...!
Never have seen those before. Looks very original to the car.
I only knew of Unica belts ... and the commonly well-known Kangols here.

(Reiter &) Schefenacker was the company who made the taillights, for instance!

Have you got a seatbelts code on your data card?
Are these shoulder belts only?

Best,
Achim
(w/ retractabel seat belts)

[andyburns]

Hi Achim,

Dont have the data card but know they were just a shoulder belt from the factory.  I have never heard of this belt manufacturer before but am wondering if its just another peculiarity of right hand drive vehicles.  Perhaps they were fitted at the dealers here in New Zealand when it arrived.  Perhaps they are just wrong for the car.  Just strange that they are German in origin which isn't something that would normally be available in NZ.  Mystery deepens.

[114015]

Hello Andy,

Don't think so.
They must have been from the factory.
Please see your datacard. There must be a 43/1 code. I'd wonder if there isn't.

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/OptionCodes

Dont have the data card but know they were just a shoulder belt from the factory.

What do you mean, you do not have your data card?? :'(
Go, get it! You are a hardcore restoration guy; you must have your datacard. You are far too Pagoda-maniac!
Ask Tom Hanson from the Classic Center in Irvine, CA. Tell him your VIN and the link to your story here; you will get it right away from him.

No datacard ... ts, ts ...

Whatever,
Schefenacker is (was) a German brand - from Esslingen. And Esslingen is not far from Stuttgart.
Those belts can only be factory in my eyes. I doubt they were aftermarket, even at the dealer.
They were certainly an alternative maker to Unica belts in those days.
Perhaps stronger/better ... I don't know; something special to the AU and NZ market maybe.

Highly interested what your datacard will tell us!

All best & keep on with the excellent work

Achim
(who dumped his old static non-factory aftrmarket belly belts)

[andyburns]

Cheers Achim,

I do have a photo copy of the card but not the card itself.  I think I have posted it in the very first couple of pages of my blog but here it is again.

I am interested to see if anyone else has the same belts or have ever seen them before.  If not chance are they may be replacements.

[Garry]

mmmmmm  No safety belts fitted at factory, plot thickens.

[andyburns]

Garry, dont know about Australia but NZ in the early 60's didn't have seat belts in any cars.  I am wondering if the 71 on the belt tag is the year of manufacture.  I am wondering if that was the year that it became mandatory in NZ to have belts. 

Now the NZ regulations state that all cars must have belts in the front seats but if the car was not fitted with belts in the rear from the factory then they are optional.   Go figure.

Am picking the owner in the day ordered some belts from Mercedes dealership and the ones pictured were supplied.  Just a guess.  They do look older than the Kangols and are and older style design.  Kind of like an aviation buckle.  I think they are quite groovy in any event and look the part.  Also in incredible condition and the right color against my black interior.
 

[Jonny B]

A good friend of mine (you read about his car in Pagoda Notes) has unusual seat belts, which I think are similar to the ones Andy showed. We are going to be doing some work on the cars this weekend, so will take a look. His is a late 250 SL.

Here are a couple of shots of the belts. The label is American Standard

[KevinC]

I have seen a great number of 230SL's in the U.S. with lap belts by "Hickock". All with the "khaki"- colored coarse weave webbing like in the initial posting.

[RobSirg]

You guys made me look.

This is what I removed from my 1969 280SL (UK delivered). I replaced them with a pair of Black Kangol's that I bought on ebay because I thought these were not original to the car. That was back before I realised that much (most?) of what you read about these cars is correct for US delivered cars and does not necessarily hold true for Aust/Euro delivered..
Seeing this is a period UK manufactured seat belt I am thinking it probably was fitted to the car originally. I now plan to put them back on (as the colour matches the car better) and use the Kangol's for the 1970 Aust delivered car I am restoring. The black belts will suit that car better also. Cant remember if we kept the belts on the car Aussie when we stripped the car down? - think they were in pretty poor conditions. Will see what I can find.

[kampala]

Jonny, I also have the "American Safety" belts on the Later 250sl --- in fact, I have the American Safety (for Mercedes)  Seat Belt Documentation that came with the car -- dated 1967.   See the photos.

[jf308]

I sell restored Kangol 3-point belts (not retracting) for big bucks.  I have never had the Hickok belts redone.   I don't really think it matters too much if they are "DOT Compliant" as much as that they are made out of good seat belt material rather than cheap backpack webbing which is used by some disreputable restorers.

I have a 64 230 Euro with no belts (obviously removed).

Any recommendations on what I should replace with ?   Will three-point belts install in my '64 without issue (eg. are there mounting spots available for the shoulder harness part)?

What should I expect to spend, and what is the best source?

John

[Garry]

John,

Any three point belt will fit, it is up to you if you go with the non retracting three point or the retracting three point where the retracting web goes at the base.  There are several postings on the forum on installation with the rear floor and for strengthing the base tie down point where not fitted.

Garry

[jf308]

Thanks Garry... I will look around at options.

Is your photo an example of a car ready for a "BackSeat Driver"?

[Garry]

couldnt work out where the steering wheel and radio were meant to go

[114015]

I am wondering if the 71 on the belt tag is the year of manufacture.

Hello Andy,
There is no (built year) '71 printing on the label you showed to us.

Yes, maybe, most likely your car came without seat belts and yours were retrofitted later - most likely at the dealership since yours a German.

 

Achim
(missing seat belts)

[114015]

I have a 64 230 Euro with no belts (obviously removed).

Any recommendations on what I should replace with ?   Will three-point belts install in my '64 without issue (eg. are there mounting spots available for the shoulder harness part)?

John (jf308),
No,
three-point belts will not fit as such in your '64 230 SL....
... since your car is missing the lower outer mounting point for the lap belt.

You have to place (i.e. weld) one (mounting bracket) in first.

Many US cars have this retrofitted to (from underneath) the rear floor pan just in front of the rear cross member. See this parted out car here below.

There are other and better options to place the 3rd mounting point.
Just get yourself instructed by a later Pagoda.
AFAIK (as far as I remember) the 3rd att point was introduced in (calendar year) 1965 or so.

Achim

[RobSirg]

Finally got around to re-replacing my seatbelts with what was on the car when I bought it (as I believed they were not original at the time). They have grey webbing which suits the car colour combination better but they were all grimy and dirty. Thought I would try something different and decided to throw them in the clothes washing machine!
I first taped up all the buckles and metal parts with bubble wrap, put them in a zipped mesh bag and let the boss choose the wash cycle. We ended up cutting the cycle short as it got a bit noisy. I was surprised to see that the tape and bubble wrap was off and some belt and buckles actually managed its way out of the zipped up mesh bag. Thankfully no damage to the machine or more importantly, the seat belts

The biggest surprise was the result - brand spanking new! Wish I took some before photo's so I cant actually prove it -  but it does work a treat. Can post an after photo if anyone is interested.

Rob