OK! What Wrong With This 1970 (280) SL?

[RonB]

http://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/mercedes-benz/sl-pagode/1970/270224?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Classic%20Driver%20Daily%202092014&utm_content=Classic%20Driver%20Daily%202092014%20CID_16e6125a248d23ea064dddd6032c740d&utm_source=newsletter

Classic Driver - going to RM Auction - looks more like a 230-250 - door panels - tag o n firewall.

[GGR]

Looks to be a euro 280SL. Only thing wrong I see are the radio buttons which are the older style, and the steering center pad which should be black. Nice looking car.

[KevinC]

Wow. Nice car. Agree with GGR's points. Also rocker covers are body color not dark grey. Obviously the spare tire cover is not original but interesting choice to make one to match the luggage. This car will sell well IMHO.

[dseretakis]

The carpet is square weave wool, which while very nice, is incorrect for a 1970 model year.

[Jonny B]

Bunch of detail stuff under the hood:

Gold power steering reservoir should be black
Angled brake reservoir (but it is the current replacement)
Plug wires angled at the dizzy, should go under the injection lines, and have a black sleeve, not zip tie
Solenoid on the intake should be yellow cad, not black
Brake line from booster to inane should be plastic as it is later car
Took kit is replacement

That typed, does look like a nice presentation, and will be curious to see the hammer price

[Dave H]

The luggage is a copy, a nice copy, but a copy all the same.
Id hate to think someone paid a premium for a genuine set of hepco luggage and recieved a copy.
I hope the sales litreture reflects this.

[KevinC]

So...what will the hammer price be?

I'll thinking $135,000.

[RobSirg]

Firewall padding is the pebble finish type (not diamond pattern).
Sub mount brackets and bolts are all plated. Could be wrong on this but I thought the plates were black and the bolts plated? (would like to know what is correct for my current resto)

Also noticed they have a hose attached to the overflow on the expansion tank (which is what i do temporarily when I am driving it to avoid coolant spillage in the bay) but I believe originally there was no hose attached.

Nice colour combination - what a pity the 280's didn't have the square weave carpet and the two tone steering hub.....guess I list a whole bunch other 230Sl features whilst i am at it.
Cant wait to hear the hammer price.....I reckon they might tempt someone over the 150K mark.

Cheers

Rob

[KevinC]

Interestingly, if you were to order a firewall pad from MB today, you would receive the grainy looking one. This said, I don't think that points can be taken off for this as it comes directly from Mercedes.

So we have $135,000 and $150,000.

Anyone else?   

[Peter h]

a very nice car, with small false features. Would also think of $ 130,000. I'm not a fan of brown, but could also change my mind ............... if my uncle would give it to me.
http://www.heritageclassics.com/inventory/detail/1171-mercedes-benz-230sl-roadster.html
 A different example with some big problems for $ 69,000. Then better to pay a little more ...........

Peter

[RobSirg]

Funny you say that Kevin, I actually lost points for keeping my original firewall padding at a MB concours d elegance here (see photo). Cant say exactly what points were lost but they clearly said - "...well this (padding) doesn't look as nice as the one on that car (pebble finish) so we will mark it less than that one....", here I was thinking it would be appreciated.

Also lost a point that day as my spare tire (whilst being original) did not match the other 4. I have since corrected that. They were quite shocked to see an original tyre that day.

Whilst I do enter to win, I wont be changing the firewall padding.

[Jonny B]

RobSirg,

Very nice, with the warm running device on the injection pump hooked up correctly, not like the car in question. I must admit to having the little overflow hose on the expansion tank, but that is not correct it was just the little stub end. I believe the subframe mounting brackets should be black with plated screws. (but remember no subframe covers on the 280 SL).

Don't understand the points off though for the original pad! I would judge it as neutral as long as the pads were in good shape.

[RobSirg]

Thanks Jonny,

Yes I was aware of the submount covers - so they are now off. Oddly enough all the 280's on display that day had them (and we all knew they were wrong!).

re:  the "warm running device on the injection pump" are you referring to the missing solenoid on my injection pump and the makeshift hook-up near my hood strap?

It was that way when I bought it. I did read that some people did away with them as they were problematic? I also noticed the injection pump on my 1970280SL project car is missing solenoids. Is it true that the later models didn't have them or have they been removed perhaps for a similar reason.

Thanks for reaffirming the finish to the submount brackets as I want to get that correct on my project car. Its also my intention to send photo's for critique when it is almost done (long way to go) as it bothers me when i see things that could so easily be corrected but were not. I guess I could use the same title as this post when I do that!

[Jkalplus1]

I think the brown car will fetch 90 000$.
If I look at Hagerty's valuation tool, this car is clearly a #2 car (for multiple incorrect details).  Combined with an unpopular colour combo, etc., thus my 90k$ prediction.  If I were to do a 280 SL with no history in order to maximize ROI with a sale in mind, I would say screw the original colour, pick the most popular int/ext colour combo, make it look and smell like new everywhere without worrying too much about the car being correct, and market it well.
I think this car is very well put together and will sell, but not for #1 car money.  No way. 
Jerome

[Jonny B]

RobSirg

I meant the hoses hooked to the warm up thermostat on the top of the injection pump. Your car has them hooked up the correct way (at least the way they are shown in the reference photo in the early 280 SL brochure (and on 49rs photo). About half the cars I look at have them switched around.

[Dave H]

I have also seen them swapped around but Mercedes BBB only adds to the confusion.
Which is the right way round and why ?

[RobSirg]

Just had a look at my project car photo's - before the injection pump was removed and they were incorrectly installed. I'm going with 49er's photo as being correct - which also matches the original brochure and the way MB Classic configure it on their restored pump in the attached photo.

we can at least agree (given my 2 cars) that Jonny's statement "that half the cars have them switched around" is 100% correct.

[49er]

photo No. 1 shows my 280SL engine taken the night I brought it home (Sept '68). Picture No. 2 show my 250SL Engine about 6 weeks after delivery (June '67). Hoses installed in the same order on both engines. Apologies for the reposting of these photos. I might also add...when I see cars like this ( the one for sale, not mine:-) that have gone through extensive restoration for many $$$, it just baffles me why they can't get the little stuff right?

John

[Jonny B]

As I have posted many times before, I am fully on board with 49rs comments. I see cars selling or trying to be sold for mega bucks, and they can't get the details right. The information is out there so why can't they get it in place. It just sends the message to me, as to what other more hidden details are not taken care of.

[RobSirg]

Really John? A 250SL in 67....... and a 280SL in 68?

Was the 250 traded for the 280, or did you keep both? I'm guessing you were a young fella back then - surely you must have been the talk of the town driving one of these around? They weren't exactly giving them away Didn't they cost more than an E-type Jag back in their day?

You must have some stories of women this car attracted back then (not to suggest you couldn't attract them without the car). Come on John - give us something .....what was it like as a young guy driving one of these brand new? What were your buddies driving at the time?

totally off topic I know but I'm very curious.

[49er]

Really John? A 250SL in 67....... and a 280SL in 68?

 The whole story can be found in the Issue 2 of Pagoda Notes, Volume  7, thanks to Jonny B
http://www.sl113.org/wiki/uploads/Restricted/PNv7i2US.pdf

It has been a great ride and as far as being a chick magnet, you would have to ask my "navigator" for the past 39 years.

John

[Iconic]

I have also seen them swapped around but Mercedes BBB only adds to the confusion.
Which is the right way round and why ?

Dave H, I would not be too concerned with those pictures from the BBB. The fact is that many of those pictures are taken before the cars go to production and might not represent production intent routing. I would go with the production set up, just as John (49er) shows in his pictures. The detail of which hose goes on top was ironed out long before they built John's 250 or 280.

Side note: Of course John's story and car are awesome.

[Iconic]

This is funny. At least to me it is.
I don't have access to my car right now, but I have lot of pictures.
So, I went to the pictures to see if my hoses were hooked up correctly.
They are what I would consider wrong. 
But, at least they look like one of the BBB pictures Dave H posted. 
One more thing I need to understand .... the list goes on.

[ja17]

The latest M130 (later 280SLs) engines had a design change.  The "pod" between the cylinder head and injection pump (where the thermo-time-switch and temperature gauge sender are), was deleted. After this change the water hoses at the WRD were reversed from previous versions. The thermo-time-switch and temperature gauge sender, were then relocated directly into  the cylinder head. The lower WRD hose  was then routed below and directly into the cylinder head where the "pod" was located on the earlier design.

In regards to the 280SL, the master cylinder reservoir is the incorrect replacement version, looks like the brake vacuum hose is made from a power steering hose and fittings, window crank handles may be incorrect replacement versions, nice car in most respects.

[Shvegel]

Look at the picture of the tool kit.  Not only do the tools seem to be more modern Hazet tools but it comes with 2 Hazet stickers. The tool bag is also is also identified as being a 50 year anniversary Pagoda. Did the classic center or someone else restore a car to auction off or raffle for the 50th anniversary?  I am just wondering if this might have been the Mercedes answer to the 911 that Porsche did for the US Porsche club a few years back?