Tire Nirvana!

[Cees Klumper]

Idea - should we start a table on the homepage http://www.sl113.org/data/ where we list all of the various available tire options with some info, like make, size(s), rub strip yes/no, (available in) whitewall yes/no, price point, countries available, other comments? This way the information that is in a thread like this becomes a bit more accessible?

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[hands_aus]

Cees
I have set up a IE Favourites called 'CAR/WEB TOPICS'. I then add the web address Favourite there and this one is called 'Tire Nirvana!'

I have them for 'FUEL TANK TOUR', 'Cylinder Head Discussion' etc. the list is endless.

Maybe a LIST showing current TOPIC NAMES in alphabetical order, this would allow the information in the topic to be automatically updated as the discussion progresses where as a separate list would need to be 'maintained'.

Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto

[Chad]

Resurrecting this fine thread...

My car has the original size Continentals on it and these are clearly not safe for use (although they have tread, they look dryrot).  I am interested in getting a fine set of NON-whitewall tires. What size is most successful for people??  I do not want to recalibrate speedometer or suspension and want a good performing tire. Performance and safety/grip more important than an original tread.

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by Chad

I am interested in getting a fine set of NON-whitewall tires. What size is most successful for people??  I do not want to recalibrate speedometer or suspension and want a good performing tire. Performance and safety/grip more important than an original tread.

Chad,
The typical sizes used are:

185H14  (original size format, with a 80 profile??)
185/80R14
195/75R14
205/70R14

With regards to the brand, it's all subjective and you will get many different opinions about performance, grip, wear, etc.  Since you found this thread, I'm sure you've found other tire threads which reveal similar info.

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[Chad]

The list of acceptable sizes are most helpful for it. Thanks Rodd. The 185HR14 had me thrown there for a while.

[Lindsay]

Hi all. I just made the leap into Pagoda ownership about two weeks ago. I didn't pay too much attention to the tires on the car other than knowing that they'd need replacing. When I went to pick up the car from the owner he mentioned that one of the tires was so bad that he put on the spare so I could drive it away. After closer inspection, and reading many of the posts here, I've come to the conclusion that I've been driving on the original Firestone Phoenix spare for the last few days (minimal miles). This has been confirmed by a very knowledgeable Pagoda owner as well. Upon realizing this I've ordered a new set of tires (the Coker Phoenix) and the car will now sit until they arrive. Attached are two shots of the tire.

Download Attachment: Phoenix1.jpg
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Download Attachment: Phoenix2.jpg
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Lindsay (Southern California)
1971 280SL (Automatic, A/C)
180 G-Silver Body, 396 G-Blue      Top
M-B Tex Interior  Blue

[Mike Hughes]

Just a heads up.  I think that the tread width and/or rolling diameter of the Coker "Phoenix" tires is just a little oversize.  I say this because it appears that it is a slightly tighter fit on the spare tire mount of my '66 230SL.  The tire comes into contact with both the fuel filler neck at the rear and the wheel wheel well at the front of the spare and top (inner) sidewall interferes with the trunk hinge on that side.  How I noticed this is that the trunk hinge has made a nice impression on my spare tire cover and that corner of the trunk is not sitting flush with the fender line anymore because of the interference with the new spare tire.  I think that the only way to take care of this problem is to let the air out of my spare - which sort of defeats the purpose, don't you think?

- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
  Havanna Brown (408)
  Light Beige (181)
  Cream M-B Tex (121)

[mdsalemi]

Mike Hughes et al,

I'm astounded that this thread keeps popping back to the forefront every few months!

One of the reasons I purchased the Coker is that it was one of the few, if not the only properly sized (i.e. 185HR14) tires still available in properly sized (i.e. 3/4") white wall.  As each day goes by we seem to be more limited in our tire choices...even finding 14" tires is limited as most manufacturers are going to larger and larger every model year.

With all due respect to the Sindelfingen assembly line workers of several decades ago I think part of the issue you experience(d) is variances in manufacturing tolerance of the car.  The reason why I suggest that is that the 205/70 sized tire on a standard 6" steel rim simply will not fit at all on my spare mount; others don't seem to have this issue.  The same 205's didn't have much of a rub issue on lock turns on my car, but on others they do.  I would more suspect variance in the car then in the tire at this point in time.  Something has to be different, no?

If you are keeping the Cokers and have to let the air out of your spare--suggest getting one of those battery-operated compressors; else keep up your AAA membership and don't forget MB Roadside assistance!

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[German Dude]

Michael Salemi wrote: "I'm certainly not suggesting that these are the ONLY acceptable tires for the 113, but I would guess we should have tires with stiff sidewalls. Aside from these Phoenix, I couldn't even hazard a guess as to how we can tell the stiffness of the sidewalls. I don't think it is something that is quantified. Are there other tires out there with stiffer sidewalls? I'm sure there are...but how to tell?"

Well, I went through all the replies, but none of them really address this question. Let me venture an answer: It depends on the Load Index (LI). As you can see below, the load index tells you how much weight a tire can take. I am no expert, but I guess that in order to get a tire to endure more weight, the sidewall has to get stiffer.

L I       Weight permitted per tire / kg
91        615
92        630
93        650
94        670
95        690
96        710
97        730
98        750
99        775
100        800
101        825
102        850
103        875

With that in mind, I had my tires changed today. When I bought the car, it had 205/70 Goodyear allweather tires with a 1996 date.

Today, new Semperit Van Life 185 R 14 were mounted. These are actually van tires for small German vans on the wheelbase of a subcompact car. Advantage: Easy to get, cheap (64 $ apiece), and with a load index of 102 (850 kg)!!! Semperit is owned by Continental.

Here is my 20-miles-experience-review:

The car handles like it has power steering (which it has not!!!), and I have the feeling there is no rolling resistance whatsoever.


Should have done this 2 years ago!!!

Juergen
64 230SL #2933, 4sp, signal red, white hard top
2000 320 CDI Station Wagon

[ghenne]

I just put new Sumitomo HTR 200 205/70 tires on my SL.

My last set were Pirelli P4000 205/70. I was pretty happy with those - good cornering, solid feel on the road. Perhaps a bit more supple that the Michelin XVS I had previously used, but that could have been a factor of tire age.

I chose the Sumitomos after looking at the options. If you look at the tire size we need (I prefer 205/70) at Tire Rack, there are only a few options. There is only one tire that size that is listed as a High Performance Summer tire: The Sumitomo HTR 200. At $46 each, the price is excellent. I ordered from Tire Rack on Tuesday afternoon: UPS delivered them to Toronto on Thursday morning.

My first reaction on driving the new tires was "when did I get power steering?" The tires have very low rolling resistance, which you feel right away in the parking lot and on the road. They're very smooth and comfortable. Leaning into hard corners has felt good on anything I have tried so far. There are no clearance problems.

I'm happy.

[scheutw]

I also replaced my tires with the Coker "Phoenix" 185/H14s this summer and what a diference in performance and handling. Before my '66 230 would wander all over the road and steered like a truck. Now it feels like it has power steering even though it does not. While expensive, I highly recommend these tires on Pagodas.

[bjudd]

what tires were on before the Cokers?

thanks

bjudd
1969 280 SL 5 sp

[Rhodrich]

quote:Originally posted by German Dude
Today, new Semperit Van Life 185 R 14 were mounted. These are actually van tires for small German vans on the wheelbase of a subcompact car. Advantage: Easy to get, cheap (64 $ apiece), and with a load index of 102 (850 kg)!!! Semperit is owned by Continental.

Here is my 20-miles-experience-review:

The car handles like it has power steering (which it has not!!!), and I have the feeling there is no rolling resistance whatsoever.


Should have done this 2 years ago!!!

Juergen
64 230SL #2933, 4sp, signal red, white hard top
2000 320 CDI Station Wagon

This sounds like a fairly sensible idea, but for one thing: the speed rating on these Van-Life tyres is only 'T' - up to 118mph(190kmh).  Whilst I doubt you'd ever consider doing these sorts of speeds in your Pagoda, it is considered bad practice to use tyres that have a speed rating lower than that of the maximum speed of the car - which is why modern sports cars often use 'Z' rated tyres or more.

I'd personally like to think that if I popped over to Germany and went on the Autobahn to see what my Pagoda could do in terms of top speed, my tyres could handle it....

Rhodri


1965 230SL

[Naj ✝︎]

Rhodri,
 

quote:I'd personally like to think that if I popped over to Germany and went on the Autobahn to see what my Pagoda could do in terms of top speed, my tyres could handle it....

Rhodri

Maybe some 215/45 'Z' 17s  :?:

Download Attachment: Buli0446.JPG
60.04 KB

naj

68 280SL

[JamesL]

Oddly enough Naj, I have seen those wheels look a lot worse than that. Must be that the Pagoda can carry them off!

I am very happy with my Michelin MXVs: they ride great, grip well enough and look the part

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by bjudd

what tires were on before the Cokers?

And were any other changes (like an alignment) made when the tires were replaced?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[scheutw]

My 66 230 had michelins on it before but they we probably 10 to 15 years old as far as we could tell. They were 185-14X size. We did no alignment work or any other adjustments other than balancing each wheel/tire before intalling them.     Ted Scheuermann 66 230Sl
                                                      97 E320

[merrill]

So, just re read this entire thread and I need to see if the tire chart was ever placed on the home page.


that being said,  what tire should I have installed on a 230 sl?

It sounds like there a lot of options

matt

Matt
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230

[rwmastel]

quote:Originally posted by merrill

So, just re read this entire thread....

After reading this entire thread you should know one thing - there are many opinions on what you should mount on your 230SL.  I believe I'm using Michelin Symmetry 195/75r14, but what you use is up to you.

Are you asking about size, or brand, or what?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420

[al_lieffring]

quote:
Download Attachment: Buli0446.JPG
60.04 KB

naj

68 280SL

A 113 with alloy wheels and low profile tires always reminds me of a time back when I was still in highschool. I had just mounted a set of Mikey Thompsons on Cragar uni-lugs for a friend's 68 Mustang. Because they were uni-lug wheels I bolted them on my 65 230sl. The fronts were F70-14's on 7" wide rims, the rears were something like J60-14's on 12" reverse offset rims. They looked realy stupid, and that was the point. But to put icing on the cake I duc-taped on a Firebird rear deck spoiler.
My father when he came into the shop was somewhat less than amused. His responce was his usual parental admonition, "Alan don't be a f---ing idiot."

I still have issues.

Al  :O)

113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[KevinC]

When I first purchased my car a local tire guru told me that the original Phoenix tire was 80 inches in circumference. This would make the "original" size a 185/80 14. Using the Miata chart posted some time I ago, I came up with the modern day size of 195/75 14. With this size, I believe the car rides and looks as it should but that's just me.  

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalcold.html


Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by KevinC

When I first purchased my car a local tire guru told me that the original Phoenix tire was 80 inches in circumference. This would make the "original" size a 185/80 14. Using the Miata chart posted some time I ago, I came up with the modern day size of 195/75 14. With this size, I believe the car rides and looks as it should but that's just me.  

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalcold.html


Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex

Back in the good old days of the 1960's and 1970's, "Metric" tires that were fit on "foreign" cars basically came in two varieties--"standard" profiles which were not mentioned (80-series) and the wider, 70 series.  Not included in my thoughts here are exotic cars, I'm talking run of the mill cars like ours, like all the Brits of the time, etc.

Really wide 60, 50 series hardly existed.  Intermediates like 75 didn't exist either, or at least were so uncommon as to be just about unheard of.  Cars came with stock tires in a specific width (like 185mm) and most came with 80 series.  So, we have the reproduction Cokers today which are designated as 185-HR14 but in reality are 185/80-HR14.  The 80 was almost never shown on the tire itself.  The Coker's don't show it either.  Somewhere along the line all cars switched to Metric sizing and they added that "P" designation, and came up with the intermediate 75 profile too.

Sporty or hot cars of the time--my 1979 BMW 320i for example, came with "wide" 70 series tires.  Hardly wide by today's standards.

If your car didn't have wide tires on it, you selected wide tires by adding 20 to the width and going to 70 series.  My MG which had 165R13's went to 185/70-13.  My Austin Cooper S which had 145-10's went to 165/70-10.  Probably hard to find those today.

Now of course most tires are in the 70, 60 and wider profiles making the old tires that our cars were designed for harder and harder to find with each passing day.

Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[al_lieffring]

When I was interviewing prospective tires for my 66 230sl I had with me an actual 185-HR14 Phoenix tire from the late 60's (my spare). Of the tires that I looked at the one came the closest in size and appearance were the Michelin Symetry P195/75R14. They also have a more traditional tread pattern similar to the old Michelin X tires.

From what I rember back in the mid 70's when the USA tire companies were switching from the letter size system to the P-metric system, standard aspect ratio tires were called 78 series. Ok, please don't think that I'm trying to pick a fight over something as trival as 2 percentage points.

al  :O)

113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

[mdsalemi]

quote:Originally posted by al_lieffring

When I was interviewing prospective tires for my 66 230sl I had with me an actual 185-HR14 Phoenix tire from the late 60's (my spare). Of the tires that I looked at the one came the closest in size and appearance were the Michelin Symetry P195/75R14. They also have a more traditional tread pattern similar to the old Michelin X tires.

From what I rember back in the mid 70's when the USA tire companies were switching from the letter size system to the P-metric system, standard aspect ratio tires were called 78 series. Ok, please don't think that I'm trying to pick a fight over something as trival as 2 percentage points.

al  :O)

113-042-10-014715
built 11 Jan 66
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition- rust bucket

I believe you are absolutely correct--the "standard" profile for domestic sized tires was a 78, and an 80 for metric.


Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored

[merrill]

Rodd,
Guess I was thrown by all the opinions and options.  Especially when the subject turned to the load index.

If I am going to spend the dough I would like to get a tire that will make the car drive and ride as it should.

I will probably use the steel rims from my 300d as the sl rims need to be re painted.  

matt

Matt
66 230 sl - "white"
78 300 D - Blue
98 C230