Scratching My Head - engine bay paint !

[Kazoo]

This is one of those topics that well you may not want to get sucked into...I've been contemplating for months... BUT I would appreciate and value your opinions as fellow owners....

Background....
So, it started with cleaning up the engine bay ...and before you know it (and a few empty beer bottles later) i had the engine out.  She is a good example with some nice benefits....no rust and a stick shift. Two previous owners and she has been well taken care of....BUT on the down side, she will never be that top end specimen since the last owner for 20+ years hated her original silver/ black combo (so perfectly 280sl classic) and had her painted horizon blue #304 which was a 1968 280sl color, and he also had the interior mostly converted to butterscotch.  Another downside of this car is that she was Ziebarted when new....so there is no rust...but there is that black tar everywhere!  He did a great job on the paint - totally disassembled the car and did the dash, the door jambs and all.  The underside of the hood was painted black and the rest of the engine bay was black tar over the original silver!  So it looked all black under the hood.

HERE IS THE QUESTION (finally)....
After pulling the engine, I cleaned out all of the black ziebart tar...  What a S_I_TY job that was.  But It came out very good.  So the black tar is gone, but now there is a silver engine bay on a blue car....and the silver is not perfect by any stretch so it has to be painted. So WHAT COLOR to paint the engine bay??.....as I see it there are two options, Black or Horizon blue.  Well Ive been thinking that black would be easiest and hide a multitude of sins, but that would not be be original (but the car is not original colors anyways) or paint it with Horizon Blue so that it will be done in the original fashion, in that the engine bays are always body color even thought its not the original body color.

Anyone care to jump in on the debate in my hear?

Thanks

[Garry]

There is no question, Horizon Blue for bay and hood/bonnet .  Black would look terrible on a blue car or any other than a black car.  At least the PO did the dash that other than the engine bay, is the hard part to paint without pulling it to bits.

The 304G is a correct colour for all series of the W113 between '63 and ‘68

Garry

[Kazoo]

Hi Garry,

THANKS for the input...I guess since I have gone this far and have the the engine bay pretty much empty it should go blue!  I don't think it will be that much more work...

One issue is the fire wall pad - the pad I have is the original and it is in pretty good shape.  I have been thinking that it should be saved as it is original, but it would be easier to paint the engine bay if I removed it and replaced it.  I don't think you can get NOS firewall pads anymore and some of the repro parts don't look very original.  I guess I could tape it off and carefully paint in and around the grommets and the fuse box where you see little bits of silver around the edges of things coming out from the fire wall (or paint them black so they will just blend in with the pad.

Is it worth staying committed to saving the original firewall pad?

;-}

[Shvegel]

Any runs on the underside of the hood should be preserved.  The hoods were apparently dipped in primer and the runs are apparently a mark of originality.  Alight scuff and re-shoot if you want to keep them.

[Garry]

As Kazoo has said, the under hood had also been painted black so it will need re-doing.  The original firewall pad if in decent shape is well worth keeping just for originality. Do a search on here for non-oem firewall pads available from one of the listed suppliers, Babak who I think is Benz Restorer. Unfortunately all the pads produced by the Group have been sold.

Garry

[Kazoo]

We are going into the winter season here and that is when I do most of my damage on the SL....I'm going to attempt to complete this engine bay project and resist the daunting temptation of taking more things apart!  Although..... It looks like it would be so easy to take out that front sub frame at this point and go through it, remove all the nasty ZIEBART tar, replace anything questionable and paint it up!  Then the whole front section would be done!

Last spring my Bride had high hopes of using the 280, then one day she came across the street to my garage to find I had the engine out !  Well, she did get over it and said "Next Spring Im going to be styling around town in that 280"

So I guess its question of productivity, can I get the engine bay done, go through the engine, re-install everything...and maybe go at that little tiny subframe project ....and get her going for the spring?  Thats a tall order for a slow and detailed part timer like me!

Happy New Year Garry !

Wayne

PS Attached is a photo of my car, and I'm wondering if it is actually Horrison Blue, or if its the Light Blue that you have..??

[lamakdaddy]

I am going to put this out there...go back to a silver body! Why...as you say..you have a perfectly preserved 280 that was built in the most desirable color combo..you already added 10s of thousands of dollars by getting off all the gunk from the engine bay...spend another $10k on the paint and you have a very valuable car that is now back to how it was intended (not that blue is a bad colour!).

[Kazoo]

See what I mean about scratching my head on this one....  Actually I was hoping that someone would NOT say that - but you just did!  I know - going back to original would be the very best thing.....

That was also part of my thinking about the Black... if I painted the engine bay black, than that would get along with a silver re-paint sometime in the future....but of corse that would not be correct either and so there in lies the dilemma... and also the fading chances of my wife driving this thing some day!

I could do it in stages, in other words paint the engine bay silver now and live with the odd combination of silver and blue until I get to doing a re-paint....But what if I don't get to it!

Which of the following would be better for re-sale??:
1. Blue car with a blue engine bay
2. Blue car with a black engine bay
3. Blue car with a silver engine bay


So pouring it all out there...here is the bigger picture and the numbers....

To go back to original would take:

1. Body - removing all of the trim and interior, and dash - and the blue paint is on very thick, so that would have to be delt with...either a very heavy sanding or stripping UGH...
2. Change the interior back to black - he never did change the dash and windshield parts so they are already black but would have to come off to paint the dash, so it would be carpet set, seat covers, door & kick panels and the convertible cover trim.
3. Re-paint the hardtop
4. Replace the tan convertible top with a more correct color like black.

I've got about $25,000 USD into the car  so far (including the purchase price)  and at some point I may have a to sell her to pay for kids college...

So what to do? Besides continuing to scratch my head further accelerating my re-treating hairline!

HAVE A TERRIFIC DAY TODAY!

W

[Jonny B]

From a resale point of view, if you stay with the blue, the engine bay should be painted the same color. There is enough information out there, that even a modest search will turn up the fact that the engine bay and body color need to match. While silver is a desirable color, the color change on a Pagoda is not a huge deal (as it is with American muscle).

A color change, i.e. full paint job, done correctly will be pricey. There is a fair amount of information on the site about different options/levels of paint, so I won't go into that.

[KevinC]

My thoughts for resale value would be in this order:

1) Silver car with silver engine bay

2) Blue car with a blue engine bay

I would not even consider black in the engine bay. Whether you leave it silver or paint it blue, either one could be explained away with some degree of logic whereas black probably couldn't.

[Jaru]

Looks like a very solid car, if it has no rust or previous rust- or damage repair it has the potential to be a very desirable and valuable car.

If you plan to keep it (or sell it to someone thats into originality) I would go back to silver in the engine bay.
See it as a partial restoration back to original. Live with the blue body until you can afford a proper paintjob back to silver.
Its a good thing that the dash pad is still in the original black. Seatcovers and carpets are easy to replace in the future.

I would definitely NOT paint the engine bay black.

Good luck with your decision

[GGR]

One day I had a car repainted with a color I chose on a catalogue. When I saw the car painted I thought it was horrible. I did not have the money to paint it another color so I put it back together and put it on sale. I sold it very well because the buyer absolutely loved the color! In fact he bought the car because of the color!

Color is a very subjective thing. You may think silver is more popular but the future buyer may like it blue.

So, on a pure financial point of view, if the outside of the car doesn't need a repaint, then go with blue in the engine bay. Putting the whole car back to silver will come at a substantial cost that you won't necessarily recoup in resale difference (+ all the additional work, + possibly missing your spring deadline).

Now, if you prefer silver and you are ready to bear the cost of a full repaint to bring the car to your liking, it would also be justified, but it's a different story. 

Alternatively, ask your bride what color she prefers!

[Garry]

It certainly looks like a Light blue 334G in the photo.

Everyone has their own taste in colour.  My 280SL (5 speed) was Dark Olive, as per original spec and the paint was only two years old. I liked it.  I sold it and the new owner immediately stripped it and repainted it a Midnight Blue at a huge cost.

I spent two years looking for a light blue car before finding my 230SL (Auto).  Did so because my wife wanted to be able to drive as well and she liked blue.  I dont mind the colour.  Anything but white is good to me.  As they say, in the eye of the beholder.

Value wise, it would only come into play if there were two to chose from and everything else was equal then the original one may be the preferred.  As far as adding or reducing value I dont think it does.  The only thing it may reduce is the buyer pool but not the value.

[Panzer82]

Yeah... it's a blue car now... unless you wanna go ALL THE WAY and go back to original, which will cost a lot... just paint the engine bay Horizon Blue, essentially completing the color change of your car.

[Kazoo]

So may good thoughts....THANKS...

I actually love the blue, and I guess I have been getting caught up on the whole originality thing.  But when you think about it, there are so many fantastic 280's out there that have been restored to outrageous levels and many of them have had color changes.  Sometimes when I get to dreaming about these cars i go to MotoringInvestments.com.....click on "View Our Restorations" then scroll down to "MY MINK" - Amazing restoration, no expense spared - but she had a color change, and yes she is to die for!

SO while I've got you all scratching your heads with me.....assuming that the engine bay goes blue which is what I am not thinking thanks to you all....what to do with the butterscotch interior (and tan top) that I don't really care for.  The blue with the butterscotch and tan is just a little too PALM BEACH for me.  Plus the dash is still black.

What were good interior color combinations to go with the Light Blue?? 

Could the interior go back to black with the correct charcoal carpet?  That way the interior would at least be original colors
The Convertible top....Navy Blue, Black

What do you all like, what was popular with Light Blue ??  Got any photos to share??

PS - I have to come clean and let you all know that I actually had started down the black engine bay direction and I had bought the paint and all.  SO the great outcome of this conversation is that I now realize why black is so wrong. Thanks for helping me realize that there are really only two options, blue or silver.

[KevinC]

Kaz,

Here's a good place to start...

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/RecommendedCombinations

Is your current interior made of leather or MBTex (Mercedes Benz Textured Vinyl)?

Kevin

PS: If done in an MB color, the interior is likely to be "natural", "bamboo" or "cognac".  All great colors even with blue IMHO.

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/UpholsteryCodes

[Kazoo]

Currently its Bamboo MB TEX, originally I believe it was also MB TEX but in black.  But the dash pads are still the original black.  Do you think a black interior can go with the light blue OK?

If I do anything with the interior, I would love to switch over to leather....there is just something about a leather sports car interior - maybe the smell!

I guess its also the tan top that feels kinds of girly to me.

I might be dumb bell, but I couldn't figure out the color combination chart.  Couldn't find Light Blue body and what was recommended with it...

[Kazoo]

Here are some convertible top color examples....

blue with black  top
blue with dark blue top
blue with tan (like mine)

[GGR]

Well, if the interior needs redoing as well as the soft top then dark blue would be nice. Black would also be ok.

But to be frank, your current combination is not bad either. If it is in good shape, leave it alone for a while and see if it grows on you. Long time ago I bought a BMW 2002 which was Inka orange. I thought it was terrible but everybody else loved it! In the end it grew on me. I realized how much a tribute it was to the early 70s and didn't want to change the color anymore.

[Bonnyboy]

Just my opinion...but that is a beautiful colour blue. 

Throw on a set of wide white wall tires, paint the engine bay blue to match, leave the interior and your car will be awsome.  As you note colour is subjective.   I have a white car and find it so boring but it is original.  I also have a citron MGB which many feel is very ugly but I absolutely love the colour. (Citron is like safety green / chartruese)

In my opinion, a well done colour change does not detract from the car.  There are lots of ugly cars out there and yours is not one of those.   

[lamakdaddy]

Ironically, I feel that painting the engine bay is the most difficult task that you are facing..exterior paint is easy! Please, please go silver...the dash will get sorted that way too..

[Garry]

Kazoo

I think the interior is just fine and correct.  What you could do to match it all up is change the colour of the dash using upholstory recolouring, quite an easy job and not much needs to be removed to do it.  Then add the navy soft top if you want, that would be the cheapest option.

Here is my 230SL 334G and interior .  I had to recolour the dash in the car as it had gone to a strange orange/yellow over all the years so used leather re-colour on it all and it worked fine.

[49er]

I am a little late to the party on this thread (have been welcoming our first grandchild into the world:-) but here goes. When I had my 250SL's front end repaired by Hollywood Mercedes' body shop back '67, the hood had to be replaced along with both front fenders. When I picked up the car after several weeks, I opened the hood and the underside was black with the rest of engine bay remaining 050. I was told "the factory replacement hoods always came black and they, the body shop, only paint the exterior". I was so happy to get the car back and being only 22 years old I didn't question the guy. Happy to say my 280SL's hood is still white, paint runs and all.

John (aka Grandpa,Opa, Grand-père:-)

[Garry]

Congratulations John.

On-call baby sitters are hard to find

[49er]

Yep, Seattle is only 1 1/2 hours from home by air. Lots of flights in our future for sure

John