Author Topic: starter replacement (Read 21270 times)

kampala · « **on:** January 12, 2015, 04:02:29 »

The car has been a bit lazy to start lately --- engine turned slower than usual. A couple of times I only got a click when turning the ignition key and then the engine would turnover on a second try. I suspected the starter but charged the battery just in case. Still a lazy turnover after charging.

After reading about starters on our forum, I picked up a Bosch SR59X starter rebuilt by Bosch. Based on past comments I was able to access the upper 10mm allen bolt from inside the car via the access panel on the transmission tunnel after pulling up the carpet -- many thanks for this info!

I've included a couple of photos showing the access as I did not find photos showing this in our forum --- and a shot of the new and old starter as they are very different in size and weight.

Also a shot of the electrical connections on the new starter -- the phillips head screw is where you can run a wire to the coil for direct power during cranking since earlier cars did not have this feature. I did run the wire but have not yet noticed any difference in starting with it connected to the coil and with it disconnected.

Overall the cranking is MASSIVELY improved --- almost shockingly strong --- the motor spins like it would if I removed the spark plugs --- very nice.

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2015, 05:49:39 »

Hi Oz, where did you get this starter from? Europe or the US? I need a new starter as welll and would like to go the same route but it seems the only search hits I get are jn the US. Perhaps the part no. is different on this side of the pond?

Garry · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2015, 06:28:21 »

Hi Oz,

Will you write up a short burst on the removal and replacement of the starter motor and photos and we can put it in the Tech Manual for the next person who needs it including part number etc. Had a look and agree there is a lack of info other than some very old posts on starter motor problem

thanks
Garry

kampala · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2015, 14:15:30 »

Cees,
As you suspected, this part number seems to be used mainly in the USA, that's where I bought mine. The cross reference Europe Part number is: Bosch 0986010850. See Attached screen shot.

The unit I bought does state that it was remanufactured in Germany.

Garry,
I will write something up and put it together with the photos. The information exists within the forum but not in the tech manual (that I could find at least). Will need your help to place it.

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2015, 19:18:10 »

Many thanks Oz. I just ordered one from a French parts supply webstore for €200, as usual prices in Europe are higher than in the US. Looking forward to installing given your positive review.

Mike K · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2015, 20:58:10 »

I seem to be having similar issues with the starter. The car is kept in my garage with a new battery installed and a CTEK trickle charger attached.
On average I drive the car every other day and once in every 4 or 5 days I get a lazy start and the motor will hardly turn over, normally on the second attempt it will turn over. I know it's not the battery.

I've located an online source for a new Bosch starter here in France, possibly it's the same online supplier as Cees has located, price is approx. €200-.

Oz thank you! Your pics are very helpful in terms of removing the rear bolt.
What I'm trying to establish is, once the electrical and battery cables are disconnected and the starter is removed, is it simply a process of re-attaching the new starter with
the bolts and then the electrical and battery connections? Is there anything else I need to be aware of?

I've read up about the procedure in Haynes- I'm concerned that possibly their instructions are over-simplified? This has previously happened to me when following Haynes' instructions when I replaced the springs.

I can't seem to locate the instructions in the BBB.

Anything I need to be aware of in terms of lining things up?
Any detailed instructions/input will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and best,

Mike

kampala · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2015, 22:51:48 »

Mike,

Since you have a Late 280sl, the install may be even a bit simpler. The starter is held on the car with Two bolts, one is accessible through the trans tunnel as described and the other is easily accessible from underneath. The other attachments are all electrical. Since yours is a late 280sl, your electrical connections should be a direct match to the new starter. There is nothing else to line up or synchronize --- if you have it flush mounted like original, that should do it. It really is that basic.

First disconnected the battery, then I removed the upper bolt from the trans tunnel access. With car jacked up on right side, and safely supported, I then removed the lower bolt from underneath while supporting the starter with one hand. Once second bolt was out, I pointed the starter up, so all connections were facing down. While resting the starter on steering arms and such, I was able to disconnect all wires and pull it out. Placed new starter in same position with it pointing up and connections pointing down and fitted all electrical connections (not fully tight). Placed starter in position and first loosely put in the lower bolt, then was able to put in upper bolt by hand from underneath. Lining up was not difficult since I left it all loose. At this point, I tightened all electrical connections, keeping it away from the exhaust manifold. Then I fully tightened both upper and lower bolts. Reconnected the battery and voila.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

WRe · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2015, 08:04:05 »

Hi,
one amendment: The starter has a retaining bracket at it's other end, see no. 18 here: http://www.sls-hh-shop.de/en/230-280SL-W113/15-Electrical-Equipment-at-Engine/15-c-Starter-and-Generator/. It's a little bit fiddly to remove and fix it (bolts in motor block and oil pan) again, but it could be done from underneath.
...WRe

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2015, 09:00:59 »

Quote from: Cees Klumper on January 12, 2015, 19:18:10

Many thanks Oz. I just ordered one from a French parts supply webstore for €200, as usual prices in Europe are higher than in the US. Looking forward to installing given your positive review.

Cees,

I'd be interested to know if you receive the same light weight new design starter as Kampala.

Naj

Mike K · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2015, 09:48:36 »

Thanks Oz for the detailed instructions, and WRe for the added input, much appreciated!
I'm waiting to receive the starter and I'll feedback once done.

Best,
Mike

kampala · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2015, 10:41:46 »

Quote from: WRe on January 14, 2015, 08:04:05

Hi,
one amendment: The starter has a retaining bracket at it's other end, see no. 18 here: http://www.sls-hh-shop.de/en/230-280SL-W113/15-Electrical-Equipment-at-Engine/15-c-Starter-and-Generator/. It's a little bit fiddly to remove and fix it (bolts in motor block and oil pan) again, but it could be done from underneath.
...WRe

This bracket may have been introduced for the 280's -- it was not on my 250 -- maybe it was missing? Would be interesting to know if anyone with a 230 or 250 have this back bracket?

ja17 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 14, 2015, 15:41:00 »

We are dealing with three possibilities at this point. The original and earliest version was a smaller 0.9 PS (horse power). Next was the later, larger 1.3 PS (horse power) starter. It was equipped with two mounting studs on the other end so this additional bracket could be used on this larger and heavier starter. It is easily identified by the two mounting studs sticking out the end (opposite the bell housing). It also uses a larger solenoid with an extra terminal for by-passing items like the ignition ballast resistor when starting. This solenoid, on this version, has three mounting screws instead of two used in the early 0.9 PS version. The third version is the new replacement starter. It is smaller than them all and more powerful. Most likely the extra bracket can no longer be used and is no longer needed. It also has the extra terminal on it's solenoid for the by-pass feature. All three versions bolt right up without modification.

MrAZ · « **Reply #12 on:** January 15, 2015, 05:19:30 »

The starter on my 250SL was a bit lazy until I cleaned the ground strap connections to the engine from the driver side firewall. They looked great from the outside but were not making perfect contact under the ground strap bolts. Always check the free stuff first.

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2015, 09:21:05 »

Quote from: Naj on January 14, 2015, 09:00:59

Cees,

I'd be interested to know if you receive the same light weight new design starter as Kampala.

Naj

Hi Naj - the starter arrived today and it is indeed exactly the same, appearance wise, as Kampala's. Very light and much smaller than original, according to the package it weighs 4 kg. I can't wait to install it and will report back here on the results.

One small difference with the spec sheet posted by Kampala, in that it is listed as 1.5 Kw rather than 1.4, or 2 HP (so as Joe notes the most powerful of the three evolutions and more than twice as strong as the original one).

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2015, 10:24:28 »

Thanks, Cees,

European part no. Please

Thanks
Naj

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2015, 13:30:42 »

It's in Kampala's post above, 0986010850 (followed by -093 but that does not appear to be a relevant set of numbers).

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2015, 16:26:50 »

Quote from: Cees Klumper on January 24, 2015, 13:30:42

It's in Kampala's post above, 0986010850 (followed by -093 but that does not appear to be a relevant set of numbers).

Thanks, Cees,

I assume you got the same #.

Naj

dasvinger · « **Reply #17 on:** February 27, 2015, 20:08:04 »

FYI...I think you will find the replacement starter is a "gear reduction"planetary drive, similar to newer OEM MB units.
Much improved over the original "direct drive" starter.
Photo looks very close to the photo on Bud's Benz.com website.

Fred Hayes

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #18 on:** April 15, 2015, 10:01:33 »

I've fitted several of these starter motors now and they are an excellent improvement over the original.

Raymond · « **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2015, 12:27:41 »

A few years ago, Jim Villers told us about an Audi unit that fits our cars. He has successfully used it in his 190SL and his Pagoda. It's a gear reduction unit and costs about $100 from his supplier. I have received one but haven't had the opportunity to install it. It appears to be the same size and configuration as the Bosch unit. I'll let you know how that works out.

JPMOSE · « **Reply #20 on:** April 15, 2015, 15:24:25 »

Are there locations that will rebuilt/restore the original starters (that have a good reputation)? This would be another option.

RonB · « **Reply #21 on:** April 20, 2015, 01:43:36 »

It would be good if we can get a part number for the Audi Starter.

One way around the upscale prices things are going today.

66andBlue · « **Reply #22 on:** April 20, 2015, 17:54:23 »

The price for the Bosch remanufactured starter (SR59X) has not increased much in the last three to four years. You can still buy it for about $137 with free shipping and no tax (except in CT or AZ).: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-benz-starter-motor-sr59x
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=lcpxf155gyi4glviidguzezb&partnumber=SR59X

In addition you get the "Bosch Ultimate Protection Plan: Exclusive 24 Month Towing - 1-year replacement warranty, 2-year roadside assistance."

Why would you want to buy an Audi starter?

Raymond · « **Reply #23 on:** April 22, 2015, 22:51:17 »

Alfred, it isn't an Audi starter. It just isn't a Bosch. The starter that happens to be configured to fit an Audi and also fits several other cars is a gear reduction design with more power than the stock Bosch one, and is new instead of rebuilt. When I asked the Classic Center for the Bosch gear-reduction starter, the price quoted was more than twice the price of the one you reference. A starter is just a component to get the job done and very few will see it. I'll try to retrieve the number and report back. It's just an option to consider.

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #24 on:** May 02, 2015, 14:23:55 »

Today I installed the replacement starter referenced in this thread. Was a bit of a job but not complicated. The cranking is vastly improved indeed, and it seems the engine starts quicker as a result. Big wweight difference also. Highly recommended change. I could not re-attach the rear supporting bracket since that is intended for the longer original starter but, given the weight reduction and the size of the two bolts that hold the starter onto the bell housing, I am not concerned that the starter is not adequately supported.

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Author Topic: starter replacement (Read 21270 times)

MrAZ