280SE3.5 Coupe buying advice

[JPMOSE]

I agree 100%!!  I don't find the M130 engine to be that much of a bonus..if any.   I wish my 250SL was a '67 w/o the side markers, etc. To me, a Pagoda is all about he 1960's and I prefer there earlier ones!!   I am pleased that my 280SE 3.5 is a EURO version and doesn't have side marker lights!!  Luckily, it is optioned out otherwise (except for the key buzzer).  I have the North American looking headlight arrangement that was ordered this way in Europe.  But they are halogen with H1 and H4 inserts.  Also, the city light is in the lower high beam (versus low beam which is the norm).

I would be just as happy with an early 220SE Cab/Coupe as I am with my 3.5....same for a 230SL!  The way everyone fusses over a 280SL on this site makes me like the earlier versions better!!  HA! 

[wwheeler]

Luckily, we as a MB family are very tolerant. Some like the more modern look and the mechanical refinement that comes with it. Others like the old world charm and elegance that can never be duplicated. No wrong answer either way! As you can see from my signature, I now have a '60 220SE coupe Ponton car. Talk about old world, but I love it as much as my '68 W111. The way that car is built is unbelievable and I find extremely interesting. 

So to each his own - as long as you know what you are happy with.

[JPMOSE]

Speaking of Coupes....I have a soft spot for this car:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/351294126324?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I'm not looking to buy and also would prefer a car with its original engine type, but I do like it!!    My other concern would be corrosion, which would need more investigation! 

[pdc]

Rudy,

Still looking for a coupe ? I have a friend here in Belgium who is selling a nice 280 SE 3.5 Coupé manual with open roof.
pm me and I'll be happy to bring you in touch.

Pascal

[perry113]

Wallace,

All those observations on the earlier cars equally apply to the Pagoda and it always amazes me that the preference goes to the later models with plastic everywhere instead of chrome.  Time will tell I guess.

Garry

I see your point Gary. The market clearly favors the later W113 280SL. However, an equal condition 230SL has all the more chrome detail and simplicity which I personally prefer. And yes, no bumperettes nor side marker lights. Another more beautiful advantage the 230SL has over the 280SL is the aluminum door pockets and rounded key hole interior door handles.

Flipping back to the W111 we have both a 220seb and 280se coupes that sit side by side at our workshop and between the 2 cars the 220seb is much more beautiful in detail and simplicity.

[Marrs]

I wasn't going to chime in since the 220seb wasn't really a part of this conversation until the end, but when I set out to find, and buy, a w111 coupe I specifically chose the 220seb and one with automatic, no sunroof and manual windows. Same reasoning as already put forth, for the car itself I just love the heritage of that familiar, pre-war inspired tall grille, paired with the carryover items from the Ponton 220se, the elegance of the wood gauge pod, and even the goose neck fender mounted mirror appealed to me so much. That's what I love about this range, you can buy a coupe that looks and feels like something more out of the end of the 50's or go straight for something with a distinct 70's vibe inside and out. That's how I made my decision, I wanted a Mercedes that felt "old school" and classic, while others want a more capable freeway cruiser with all the comforts of home. You really cant go wrong with one of these and if you do find that you chose the wrong one, you can always try the next model. Oddly, many non-car people tend to think the car is a Bentley, and in one case a Rolls-Royce, which I attribute to the classic styling details of an early car.

[perry113]

You cannot go wrong with any complete and decent driving W111 coupe.

Some of the forum members know about the low grille 6 coupe that I put together out of the remains of a 3.5 coupe and a low grille 6 cabriolet. Since getting the car roadworthy a few years ago I drove it nearly 7000 miles. You just can't beat the reliability of a Mercedes straight 6.

The car is so smooth and so luxurious and reliable. It feels like a big substantial car yet it handles like a sports car and feels nimble. The car is very satisfying to look at and live with.

We are making progress on another restoration project a 1963 220seb coupe. I can't wait to experience this particular car. I feel the 220seb is the car to have. It is reminiscent of the 300se in looks. It may lack the ride and power of its bigger sister the 300se yet its mechanicals are easier and less expensive to live with.

Hagerty values on 220seb coupes is clearly on the rise, much more so than the 250se and high grille 280se.

Based on time and restoration costs associated with any W111 W112 my thought for buyers advise would be to open minded and buy the best possible condition coupe open to any model (220seb 250se 280se 280se 3.5) you can find that fits your budget.

Fact of the matter is that these car are very time consuming to restore. You can end up spending more on one than it might be worth than stepping up and paying more money to buy a really good car.

[wwheeler]

Peter,

Just looked up the Hagerty value on the 220seb and was amazed. So why do you think the value is so much higher than the 250SE coupe? I can't think of any difference other than engine size. 

[Rodolfo]

I drove two 300 SE 112 coupes lately. One drove very good: string pulling engine and good shifting and braking. But not original color anymore and lots of stuff non-original: electrical windows , alarm, etcc. Don't like that.
 The other was more nice inside and out, original color (black) , but less a good drive: slow motor. So I asked for a compression test, no result yet. If engine is still ok, it might be a matter of less expensive repairs: tuning and/or FI recondiotioning. But if motor has bad compression, I will walk away from it. Gearbox is probably standard stuff?

[perry113]

Peter,

Just looked up the Hagerty value on the 220seb and was amazed. So why do you think the value is so much higher than the 250SE coupe? I can't think of any difference other than engine size.  

Yes indeed Hagerty shows the 220seb to be the highest valued W111 coupe compared to 250se and 280se. Yet 14173 220seb's were produced compared to 5259 250se's and 3797 280se's. Could it be the market somehow seems to favor the earlier more detailed W111 coupes unlike that of the W113 series cars whereby the 280SL series cars are commanding higher values than the original W113 230SL.

It may have to do with the data they use as it pertains to reported sales at auctions. There have been a handful of 220seb coupe sales reported on the Hagerty site. Yet Hagerty shows no reported sales on 250se and 280se (non 3.5).

It may very be that with little or no reported auction sales of 250se and non 3.5 280se coupes that have tilted their reflected values down.

[wwheeler]

If you look at NADA Classic values in the high retail bracket, they show '63 220Seb - $45K, '67 250SE - $40K, '68 280SE - $27K and '70 low grill 280SE $35K. While not the same numbers, same trend it would appear. I think you are right about auction values.

[perry113]

Here is the link to how Hagerty values car.

http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/About-our-prices

NADA pricing has always seemed to be low on vintage cars. Maybe because of a time lag behind their data.

[perry113]

I drove two 300 SE 112 coupes lately. One drove very good: string pulling engine and good shifting and braking. But not original color anymore and lots of stuff non-original: electrical windows , alarm, etcc. Don't like that.
 The other was more nice inside and out, original color (black) , but less a good drive: slow motor. So I asked for a compression test, no result yet. If engine is still ok, it might be a matter of less expensive repairs: tuning and/or FI recondiotioning. But if motor has bad compression, I will walk away from it. Gearbox is probably standard stuff?

This is one beautiful 300SE. Looks to be condition 1.
http://hymanltd.com/vehicles/5112-1965-mercedes-benz-300-se-coupe/

[Rodolfo]

anyone here who has experience with Hyman Ltd?

[perry113]

anyone here who has experience with Hyman Ltd?

Does anyone know that particular car?

BTW: This thread has been a pleasure to read and quite thought provoking regarding the entire line of W111 & W112 2 door models.

[ja17]

In the end you only have to make yourself happy. The six cylinder 300SE six will be the most expensive to maintain. Just price a water pump, a distributor cap or a clutch assembly for instance.

[perry113]

This looks like a pretty honest W111 250SE coupe for reasonable money.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-200-Series-Coupe-1967-mercedes-250-se-coupe-w-111-/331502521389?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4d2f170c2d&item=331502521389&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

[Rodolfo]

I ended up buying a 280SE coupe lowgrille in Silver gray (180) with a sliding open roof.

See attached picture. I will pick it up in one week, and then will post better pictures.

[Jonny B]

Those cars look sooooo good in silver. Will love to see the pictures.

[wwheeler]

Nice car Rudy and I am sure you are excited! Can't wait for the pictures. Nice to know another coupe is going to a loving home and not being converted to a cabriolet.