230/250/280...

[mdsalemi]

Aside from some added trim and bling on the 230; the exclusivity (not translated at all in the marketplace) of the 250, and the overall desirability (as offered by market pricing) of the 280, what are the PERFORMANCE characteristics of the three that have one preferring a 230 over a 280 for example?

I've always heard, perhaps just anecdotally, that the 230SL is a better performer (vague, I know) than the 280. Is this true? In what way? Yes, there is less weight and horsepower in the 230, but added weight and horsepower in the 280--so what does this mean?

I went to the Technical Data Book, issue 1969, from DBAG.
Here's what it says:
Acceleration 1-100km:
(230/250/280, seconds)
Automatic transmissions 10.7/10.6/9.0
4-Speed Manual 11.1/10.0/9.0
5-Speed Manual 9.7/9.7/9.0

Caveat: all of this is qualified as +/- 7%.

If the data is to be believed, the 280SL is the better performer overall, and the transmission is not relevant to performance. Worst performer is the 230 4-spd manual transmission.

This is for some sidebar information in an article I'm drafting. Tell me why the data isn't correct, and tell me from a performance (not bling, or design purity, etc.) standpoint (Dan Caron's dual point distributor Red Rocket doesn't count) why you prefer a 230SL or 250SL. Is there something the data doesn't tell us?

[ja17]

Hello Mike,

I think that some of the difference in perception of the two cars is the weight difference.  Many of the 230SLs came with no power steering, no AC and standard transmission. In this form, they handle a bit lighter and may be more nimble than the heavier 280SL.  Most 280SLs had power steering, automatics and many had AC. It seems the rear end ratio of the 280SL (4.10) may have changed from the 3.75 of the 230SL, to keep the heavier 280SL at least as fast accelerating as the 230SL. Also increases in horsepower, in the later cars were needed to keep up with the power losses from the power steering, AC, automatic transmissions and emissions.

I believe that if the 230, 250 and 280 SLs were stripped down to same basic options (no AC, no PS, and same transmissions), the more powerful, 280SL with the 4.10 gear would always be the fastest accelerating.

[ja17]

I reviewed some of the results from the acceleration runs of the pagoda cars from past National Mercedes Club track  events. These results were from events years ago, when these cars were fairly young.  In every case, in the acceleration runs, the 280SLs just edged out the 230SLs, but only by a small margin! In the autocross and big track events, the results were always mixed between the pagoda models.

[mdsalemi]

Great info, Joe!

Anyone else?

[Naj ✝︎]

In my view, a 230 SL with a 3.75 rear end and vacuum advance distributor is the car to beat for driving pleasure.
it may be slightly slower 0-100 kph but try keeping up with one on twisty roads.
sadly, i no longer have the 230, but with the lessons learned, my 280 runs on a vacuum advance distributor and a 230 throttle  body (thanks to JA)

naj

[thelews]

250, best of both.  Want to accelerate fast, buy a corvette.

[J. Huber]

What Naj said 

I have driven only a couple other Pagodas, they were 280s, and I gotta say I liked mine (230) much better. And as Joe said, with no P/S and no AC, -- as well as a euro spec 3.75 -- mine handles and drives like a superstar. Now, mine is an automatic which some may not prefer but I sure love it. (can you tell?)

[Benz Dr.]

The early 230SL model produces more HP per liter than a 250 or a 280SL. I always wondered how this was done and looked into it a bit when I was building my engine. It came down to three main things as far as I could discern. Namely; ignition timing, valve timing, and exhaust flow.

1) Early 230SL's have vacuum advance distributors that have a very fast advance curve that is almost straight up when viewed on a graph. No other distributor advances as quickly as this unit during the time period they were produced - I was fairly sure this had some effect on performance.
 2) 230SL's also have fairly hot cam timing. The intake valve opens around 12 degrees BTDC and only the 280SL euro cam comes close to this timing.
 3) Probably the greatest performance attribute of the 230SL is the tuned header system. Driving two similar 230SL's, one with, and one without header pipes, it becomes clear which is the better performer. It's not hard to tell which one has the headers as it produces quite a bit more noise coming out of the engine bay.

 One can imagine that the marketing department at MB had some big shoes to fill after the last 300SL rolled off the line. The new 230SL would have been regarded or disregarded based on many different bench marks and one of those items would have been sound. The engine sounds powerful even if it isn't. The new car had to at least look the part and I think it did it well enough. Once the buying public became used to the new model, the factory began to tone the performance down a bit in the interests of making mas produced parts at a greater profit. Header pipes are not cheap to make relative to cast iron manifolds.

When I built my engine, I looked at all of these things, and more, to compile the best that was on offer over the entire range of the 113 build. I used a 250SE engine, 230SL header pipes, 22mm sway bar from an early car, 230SL cam advanced to 12.5 degrees, dual point distributor from a 300SE with VA throttle body, matched and ported cylinder head, balanced engine, 280SL clutch and pressure plate, oil cooler from a 250S, visco fan clutch, 280SL ribbed oil pan with windage tray, 5 speed ZF trans, 82 liter fuel tank, red ignition coil, 280SL seats, and limited slip 3.92 rear axel. There are no modern parts in my car and everything is vintage from the building period '63 to '71.

My car will go 10 KM on one liter of fuel and it will do 200 KMPH. It's as fast as most 280SL's but uses a lot less fuel.          

[Jordan]

The Car and Driver road report of 1963 has the 230SL doing 0-60 mph in 9.9 sec.  The May '63 report from Sports Car Graphic has the 230SL doing 0-60 mph in 9.4 sec and Motor Sports '65 report has it doing 0-60 mph in 9.9 sec.  

Road and Tracks 1969 comparison test (with Porsche, Corvette and Jag) has the 280SL doing 0-60 mph in 9.9 sec.  Other publications have the 280SL testing 0-60 mph in 9.3 sec (Autocar), 9.4 sec (Exoticars).

Michael, to whom are you referring when you say "... one preferring a 230 over a 280..."?  For me I think it has more to do with the bling than the performance.  I don't really care if the car can do 0-60 half a second faster or slower.  It's the drive baby.  

[pj]

The only time I ever saw a Pagoda "lay rubber" was the day Dan pulled out of my driveway in the Red Rocket while the neighbours were watching. Smiles all around.

[Benz Dr.]

My foot slipped off the cutch pedal. Purely an accident. 

[thelews]

My mother's '71 280 sl automatic chirped from 1st to 2nd on full throttle.  That first gear is strictly a stump puller!

[mdsalemi]

... one preferring a 230 over a 280..."

It's merely anecdotal, Jordan--not substantiated by metrics. Of those who have driven various models, I have heard that the 230 is a better performer. That doesn't necessarily mean faster off the line, or quicker on the twisty bits, but as Joe Alexander suggested, there might be a hard to measure "feel" of one versus another which might be attributable to weight, no P/S and as Dan Caron suggests, maybe even cam timing. That's good enough for my purposes. I'm merely trying to pin down what the perceptions are on preferences from a performance standpoint. From what all have told me, it's more feel than anything else and there are some things behind that feel.

[Peter van Es]

In driving rallies, in the French Alps (where regrettably an airplane crashed today) weight is the biggest differentiator in performance. I was astounded to see that my 280SL driven briskly has difficulty keeping up with a pre-war Alvis (with a light weight body but milk-bottle sized 6 cylinder engine) or a 1600 cc Alfa Romeo Giuiia Sprint GT, weighing something like 1000 kg's. In these circumstances it is not straight-line take off speed, or top speed that counts, but torque (acceleration versus weight) and agility (weight versus suspension).

Then on a full day rallying, after about 6 hours, navigator comforts come into play. The navigator needs to be fresh of mind. Cabin comfort, space, good seats, all start to count, and sheer speed or agility get negated by navigator mistakes very quickly. Then a Pagoda becomes much more comfortable than any English car (be it pre-war Alvis, Bentley, or post war TR or Jag). And they start to catch up.

The reality is that in the top classes (Expert), Porsche 911's win for sheer speed... Alfa's are a great second, also because the navigators are younger and close to one another. In the second (Sport) class, Mercedes can still typically end high up.

So... it depends what you want. I enjoy driving my 280SL hard and will drive mine harder than 95% of other Pagoda drivers. On rallies in the Alps, I prefer the Alfa.

Peter

[mdsalemi]

Very interesting and thoughtful perspective, Peter, with a couple of twists on things.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

My foot slipped off the cutch pedal. Purely an accident. 

I don't think so ... whatever you did to that engine saved you when I made that quick exit from the Expressway on our way down to Williamsburg

[rmmchl]

Rolf:  We still talk about the 300 mile detour to get to Charleston on the way to Williamsburg. The good Benz doctor also did it without a radiator cap. And of course coming close to crashing, (thank god that didn't happen).  I think we as club members, should provide you guys with better maps to navigate to the PUB this year.  I think way too much time has been given on the few horsepower difference between 230, 250, and 280. We need to spend more time providing Benz Dr. ( Dan Caron) with some maps of the east coast, and put you guys on a time schedule. We know the Red Rocket can run fast. We just need to point Dan in the right direction next time. This is all in fun of course!!!!

[mdsalemi]

...with better maps to navigate to the PUB this year.  

Seriously? How about a $75 GPS system? Or if that's too much, how about the same one used for $15 on eBay? Or, embedded smartphone apps will do it as well...I heard this story of the cadre of Canadians getting a grand [de]tour of the USA and was absolutely astounded. Of course, some take the high road, some take the low road and apparently some take the road less travelled.
Any Canadian wanting my old Magellan Maestro 4350 for $15 with all the accoutrements etc. is welcome to it. Seriously. Got a new Garmin for Christmas. It's only used on the Pagoda and rental cars.

[Benz Dr.]

We actually figured it out using an old fashioned road map. The amazing thing is not how we made so many wrong turns but rather how I managed to drive all the way to W.V. without a rad cap. 

[AGT]

Michael

It is a good and interesting question.

I started out with a 280 auto and then bought a 230 manual. The 230 feels and sounds faster (better exhaust system) once it gets going but the 1st to 2nd shift on the manual 'box is not slick and the 11 seconds for 0-62 does not surprise me.

You didn't ask about in gear performance but an interesting real world test is using the Liber-T rolling toll booths on the French Autoroute. You roll into these at 29.999 kmh, your tag gets detected, the light goes green, the barrier lifts and, France being France, you give it full beans trying to beat the cars going through the adjoining gates as the toll area narrows back to two or three lanes. I never thought about this in the 280 but don't like it in the 230 and if its busy I use the truck lane on the slow side of the road. Maybe I am just getting older or maybe the 280 has a lot more torque to deploy between 30 and 130 kmh.

Truth is none of our cars is fast by modern standards. In the 6 cylinder twin turbo diesel BMWs you flick the gearbox to sport as you slow to 30 and then just get flung at the horizon. Marvellous.

Best regards
Andrew

1966 230SL

[perry113]

The 230SL M127/II is different from the 250SL M129 & 280SL M130 engines in that the crankshaft on the 230 is designed with 4 main bearings whereas the 250 & 280 have 7 main bearing design. This makes the 230 more free revving characteristic with less crankshaft weight and less crankshaft bearing surface.

[Benz Dr.]

The 230SL M127/II is different from the 250SL M129 & 280SL M130 engines in that the crankshaft on the 230 is designed with 4 main bearings whereas the 250 & 280 have 7 main bearing design. This makes the 230 more free revving characteristic with less crankshaft weight and less crankshaft bearing surface.

You might have something there but I'd be inclined to consider the notion that it's a short stroke engine as being more, or just as likely.

[stickandrudderman]

Dan has it (again!).
The 230 is, for me anyway, the better "driver's" car. It is just more willing to get up and go and I put this down to the shorter stroke.
The trouble is, few people have driven a large number of these cars and so their judgements are based on a very small amount of data.
I have driven hundreds of pagodas of all varieties and can tell you that very few perform the way they should because they have not benefitted from skilled and knowledgeable maintenance.
Believe me, a good 230 is better than a good 280 for spirited driving but they will more readily under-perform for being worn out or poorly set up.
Of course, if cruising is your thing then the 280 wins easily and naturally the 250 falls between the two.

[W113SL]

Thought I'd better chime in here.

I have owned and driven all three and have driven Pagodas extensively at Track days with MBCA.

When my 250SL with manual and 4.08 rear was fairly new, I rarely was beaten by any other Pagoda around a road course or in the quarter mile.  Joe may recall he worked on his car way back in 1983 and remarked hbow stong it ran.  I did have difficulties with well driven Eurospec 280SL's and some later 280's well driven with sticky tires.

After almost 20 years of competitive driving, my 250 apears to have grown tired, but it still  performs well.

The real unknown is how these cars were prepared.  These engines all respond well to tuning regarding more static advance,  precise valve adustments and pump fuel delivery.

All being said, there really isn't all that much diference.  The later Eurospec 280's with out A/C would get my vote as the best performing one, regardless of transmission.

[Benz Dr.]

Not that this what we are talking about but the 230 can be the most costly to maintain. They use a 230SL only injection pump, the auxiliary air thermostat is made of gold, the pistons, bearings and many engine parts cost more, and idler arm parts are many times more than a 280. Good rear brake drums are getting to find and the brake cylinders have a way of leaking if not maintained to a high level. So, from these standpoints they're not better but they will perform if set up properly.