Author Topic: Engine rebuild 280 SL (Read 44295 times)

Pinder · « **Reply #25 on:** September 06, 2015, 13:23:20 »

No I did not do a trial fit but I did test a test fit and pushed down on middle pan cover around rear seal,and I did notice the fiber crush out and then I though I should trim those which I did. Its too late now as I've buttoned everything up, the Water pump I do plan on replacing.

This is all very good information and I really appreciate the guidance. I;m learning a lot.

Pic below is at what stage I am right now.

Which is: New pistons, block bored 87mm crank bearings, chain, new seals on cover plates, wire harness decreased and wire wheeled rust off then painted.

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #26 on:** September 06, 2015, 15:24:55 »

Making good headway, thanks for the blow-by-blow.

Benz Dr. · « **Reply #27 on:** September 06, 2015, 22:31:20 »

I've been using silicone for quite a while with fairly good results but I've also had some problems with leaks so I went back to Permatex sealant. Getting the exact right amount of silicone always was the key. Too little and you will have leaks, too much and it can wash off and get into the oil pump strainer. A small bead should form along the seam between the block and the pan as you tighten down the screws or you have a problem.

Frankly, spending three or more days to pull an engine just to reseal the pan made that choice easy.

Pinder · « **Reply #28 on:** September 06, 2015, 23:26:12 »

i plan on filling the engine with oil before i put it in the car to make sure I dont see any leaks. I may have to add a lot of oil to get it to the level of the seem of the pan to block. if this sounds like a bad idea let me know.

Benz Dr. · « **Reply #29 on:** September 07, 2015, 02:31:11 »

Yeah, sort of....

These oil pan leaks won't normally be found using the method you suggest because it requires a running engine, heat, and generally above all, a certain amount of time before anything happens. In other words, you will find the leaks after it's all together and running for a while.

A bit of a disappointing piss off, but there it is.

tel76 · « **Reply #30 on:** September 07, 2015, 08:29:45 »

Dan,
Could it be that you did not pre-fit the ally: pan before you tightened everything up?
Try it next time and you will be surprised how much of the rope seal is trapped between the pan and the block.

Pinder · « **Reply #31 on:** September 07, 2015, 23:14:07 »

So today I installed the auxilary Shaft and Sprocket and Speedo shaft as well as install of Damper. I set piston 1 to TDC. Ive been following the Haynes manual. It said set to TDC then install damper. I think the damper can go on only one way but I followed the instructions os that hte timing marks are up and set to 0|0 on the pointer. the tricky part of this wa getting the auxilary shaft in. Had some trouble with the woodruffs.

Pinder · « **Reply #32 on:** September 07, 2015, 23:38:28 »

Also if anyone knows what to torque the nut on the Sprocket on the Auxiliary shaft (its teh one on the big gear in the pic). Let me know.

tel76 · « **Reply #33 on:** September 08, 2015, 15:05:01 »

Can you explain a little more what problem you had with the woodruff keys, the installation should have been straight forward.
When you fit the front cover it may be a good idea to remove the paint from the gasket area so that your gasket will sit directly onto the block surface.

Pinder · « **Reply #34 on:** September 08, 2015, 20:01:18 »

thats a good idea. I will remove the paint around the cover plate. the wood ruff key was sticking up too much so had trouble putting the sprocket on. I tried to push it down with my fingers but I guess its a tight fit. i used a pair of pliers and it then bottomed out and was able to slip on the Sprocket. it was just a bit fiddly and to make things easier i turned the engine upside down so i didn't drop the backing washer in the engine.

Pinder · « **Reply #35 on:** September 12, 2015, 00:15:21 »

Latest update.

Installed distrib housing after cleaning it, Oil filter pipes and housing, water pump housing (with old pump still installed , new pump on order). Whats left is to install the MFI and a few odds and ends. oh and the head which I am still waiting on.

Pinder · « **Reply #36 on:** September 16, 2015, 12:45:20 »

Most of the engine is put back together. Stll waiting for the Head from the machine shop but will be installing soon. Wanted to know what would be the recommended way to install the head gasket. The one i have is from elring. Is there any kind of sealant to use or should it be installed dry? I read somewhere to use copper sealant?

ja17 · « **Reply #37 on:** September 16, 2015, 14:19:52 »

Check the up and down movement of your vertical timing gear (tach drive gear). Also clean the head bolt holes with the correct tap. I use Permatex Coppper Gasket Spray adhesive on my head gaskets and a light mist of it on the head and block surface. I clean the surfaces and do a final wipe with alcohol before applying it. Others say do not use anything. Your choice. Lube head bolts as described in the BBB before torqueing.

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #38 on:** September 16, 2015, 15:34:56 »

Indeed, check the tach drive bush for wear, it's often overlooked.
Here's a sample of what I have in stock; you can see the differences in height. The best one has come from an SE engine (No tach drive).

Pinder · « **Reply #39 on:** September 16, 2015, 17:40:07 »

Ok great. I will use the copper spray. There is no noticeable wear on the tack drive.

Shvegel · « **Reply #40 on:** September 19, 2015, 06:15:01 »

I don't want to step on Joe's toes since he has assembled far more of these engines than I have but wanted to offer another opinion. I don't recommend putting anything on the head gasket. If you stick the block to the gasket and the head to the gasket the gasket has to absorb the shear movement caused by the different rates of expansion between the aluminum head and the iron block rather than the head sliding along the gasket as it should. I read a technical bulletin from one of the gasket makers that stated very specific requirements right down to the cylinder head surface finish for that very reason.

Most modern head gaskets are of a construction known as MLS which stands for Multiple Layer Steel. These gaskets are comprised of several very thin sheets of steel with or without any sealant between them which allows for the above mentioned movement to be absorbed within the layers of the gasket rather than between the gasket and head. These gaskets account for the steep decline in the number of blown head gaskets there are in recent years and also for the fact that a car with them will tend to eat about a cup of coolant between oil changes as some coolant will sneak between the layers and into the combustion chambers when the engine is cold. Sadly I am not aware of anyone making these for our cars.

Here is a little light reading on the subject: http://www.federalmogulmp.com/en-US/Technical/Documents/How%20To%20Prevent%20Head%20Gasket%20Failure%20-%20Improper%20Surface%20Finsh.pdf

tel76 · « **Reply #41 on:** November 06, 2015, 08:46:26 »

Hello Pinder,
When you refitted your cylinder head did you obtain new cylinder head bolts for your series iv block, if so what part #s did you receive, what is the length of the bolts?
I have uncovered a problem with the 145mm long ones that MB have supplied, I should have more info: next week to confirm this.

ja17 · « **Reply #42 on:** November 06, 2015, 15:23:35 »

Head bolt replacement on these M130 engines is not required as long as the heads and threads are good. Modern engines with "stretch style" head bolts are automatically replaced in many instances as they become elongated and fatigue.

tel76 · « **Reply #43 on:** November 06, 2015, 21:20:19 »

Joe,
I replaced these bolts because of heavy corrosion on the bolt stem.

Pinder · « **Reply #44 on:** November 06, 2015, 22:43:17 »

I have just got the head back from the machine shop so have not got around to installing but i plan to re-use my head bolts. I was looking around for new ones but they are not thart easy to find and as my head bolts look like in excellent condition and I dont think they are stretch bolts i should be able to reuse them. I think the only place i could find that havt them is metric motors in California. but based on prior comments im going to use my existing ones. I spent all day today re-pulling the engine to check that I had the clutch on the right way. (i did) but as I had a few drinks last time i put the engine in I wasnt sure if I did it correctly.

Benz Dr. · « **Reply #45 on:** November 06, 2015, 22:57:31 »

Quote from: tel76 on November 06, 2015, 21:20:19

Joe,
I replaced these bolts because of heavy corrosion on the bolt stem.

Probably had a leaking head gasket that seeped into the bolt holes. I've seen them corrode so badly in the their holes that we had to use heat to get one them of the block. In that case you would want to replace anything that looked suspect.

Pinder · « **Reply #46 on:** November 06, 2015, 23:01:40 »

Here is a picture of the original ones out of my 280SL its a 1970 and its the original engine and head . the lenghts are around 140mm and 110mm measured from bottom of head. the longer ones have a thick washer on them too.

tel76 · « **Reply #47 on:** November 07, 2015, 08:45:40 »

Looking at a picture of your block you have the latest series iv block (can you post a picture looking directly over the top) then the above bolts are incorrect for that block.
You require the longer 144mm and the short bolts should be 114mm long, Metric Motors have them in stock, do not get them from MB.

ja17 · « **Reply #48 on:** November 07, 2015, 13:20:03 »

Identify the block by the engine number or look for the hex inserts for the head bolt threads to make sure which version and length head bolts you have. By all means use the correct length head bolts for your head.

tel76 · « **Reply #49 on:** November 07, 2015, 21:42:57 »

If the vehicle has had a replacement block from MB fitted sometime in the cars life there is no engine number stamped on the block (they came from the factory with no number stamped on them), the only way to know you have the latest block (mk iv) is by inspecting the block surface to ascertain if you have the hexagon inserts fitted, these blocks require longer bolts to make allowances for the hex: inserts being inserted below the block surface.

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Author Topic: Engine rebuild 280 SL (Read 44295 times)