Author Topic: Engine rebuild 280 SL  (Read 44302 times)

ja17

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2015, 02:08:24 »
Each chain link equates to about 18 degrees. As miles pile up, each pin in every link begins to slowly wear. Multiply this slight amount of wear by 134 ( number of links in the chain) and you have a measurable amount of chain wear. As Pat mentioned, machining of the head will also contribute to lateness of the mark. Multiply the amount the head was machined by two since the chain goes up then back down and the distance becomes shorter on each leg. Chains sprockets also wear and contribute to the lateness a bit.  Earlier shop manuals address the condition. They explain that off-set woodruff keys are available to correct the situation, but then go on to explain that it will most likely not make any noticeable difference on how the engine runs and performs.  In short these engines are designed to accommodate some lateness in the valve timing. Never advance the valve timing in front of the mark, not even a slight amount. You are fine with your slightly late timing. Only when the lateness approaches 7 degrees or more do I become concerned. Usage of off-set keys becomes tricky and confusing. The cam timing becomes corrected but the index marks stay late. Keep things like you have them, you will be fine.

Some  perfectionists will use off-set keys, dial indicators and valve timing specs. to get exact valve timing. But as the early manuals state, "it will probably make no noticeable difference". Lets face it the valve timing is only exactly correct for a short period of time, then it begins going late every time the engine is run.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

tel76

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2015, 08:58:54 »
No longer applicable.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 15:52:05 by tel76 »
Eric

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #77 on: November 18, 2015, 13:03:52 »
I am at the stage of installing the Valve cover.  It looks like i need to jackup the rear of the engine to get this on without hitting the hood latch bracket. Is this correct? should i loosen off the engine mount bolts jack it up from the back?

also I am in the process of media blasting the intake manifold( actual i did that) and have the intake nose separated from the manifold.  in my elring gasket kit there are two square gaskets. they are the exact same size. do both of these need to go in between the manifold nose and manifold.?   (im refereeing to the nose as the piece that has the throttle body looking thing in it).
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

Jonny B

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #78 on: November 18, 2015, 14:55:22 »
You should not have to loosen up the engine mount bolts. A small amount of lift at the back of the engine with a jack should do the trick.
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904
1966 Morris Mini Minor

Benz Dr.

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #79 on: November 18, 2015, 15:46:02 »
I am at the stage of installing the Valve cover.  It looks like i need to jackup the rear of the engine to get this on without hitting the hood latch bracket. Is this correct? should i loosen off the engine mount bolts jack it up from the back?

also I am in the process of media blasting the intake manifold( actual i did that) and have the intake nose separated from the manifold.  in my elring gasket kit there are two square gaskets. they are the exact same size. do both of these need to go in between the manifold nose and manifold.?   (im refereeing to the nose as the piece that has the throttle body looking thing in it).


Make sure you get every bit of sand out of the inside of the manifold. If there's anything still inside the manifold the sand will stick to it. If have mine cleaned before I blast them so that there's no chance of any sand getting into my engines.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Pinder

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #80 on: November 19, 2015, 15:01:58 »
Yes I got the valve cover on with only a little bit of lift from the trans.

I used Aluminum Oxide as the blast material. It makes the intake look like matt grey. Im not partically happy with the colour but at least it looks clean.

What I really want ot know is should I use both the square gaskets or not?
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

Naj ✝︎

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #81 on: November 20, 2015, 09:06:05 »


What I really want ot know is should I use both the square gaskets or not?


Hi,

I have only ever used one gasket when I have had the throttle body off.

Be sure to retighten it down when you retorque the head.
I found mine was sucking air after 500 miles in the middle of Europe  ???

naj
68 280SL

Pinder

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #82 on: November 20, 2015, 22:19:03 »
Yes I used one gasket. I think ill keep the other for the second car im working on.

Here are picks of the manifold  media blasted and cleaned up, I think it came out a lot better than i expected. The Cadmium parts are actually painted. I checked that all the electronic items are working on and cleaned the inside as best as I could . Nose of intake cleaned up nice.
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

Benz Dr.

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #83 on: November 21, 2015, 00:02:55 »
Yes I got the valve cover on with only a little bit of lift from the trans.

I used Aluminum Oxide as the blast material. It makes the intake look like matt grey. Im not partically happy with the colour but at least it looks clean.

What I really want ot know is should I use both the square gaskets or not?

I use a small brass wire wheel on a angle grinder to polish any bare aluminium. This gives it a bit of shine similar to fresh metal and removes the dull haze left over from blasting. We also polish all of our metal parts prior to plating so they take on a nicer finish.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Pinder

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #84 on: November 21, 2015, 11:59:21 »
Ill go get some brass wire wheels.  I was able to get it to have a little shine by cleaning with a brass hand brush.
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

450sl

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2015, 10:05:35 »
Just curious  : how did you unbolt the Oilpump ; just by unscrewing the 2 fixing M8 bolts and then pull down?  cannot find the procedure in the BBB ...

ja17

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2015, 15:09:01 »
Yes, you can just pull the oil pump out. Twisting it back and fourth helps, as you are pulling downward.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

450sl

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #87 on: November 24, 2015, 16:37:26 »
Thanks Joe

Pinder

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #88 on: November 27, 2015, 23:43:16 »
Yes I confirm thats basically what i did. it looked as if it was on there solid but with some moving it about some Wd40 and some light taps it came out nice.
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

Pinder

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #89 on: December 02, 2015, 23:42:42 »
Need help findining out where i took out the grub screw from while dismanteling engine. i think it goes somwhere on the front but cant remember for the life of me. see picture.h
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

Pinder

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #90 on: December 02, 2015, 23:44:10 »
i think its a 4 mm allen key. total outside diamiter around 10mm
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

Benz Dr.

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #91 on: December 03, 2015, 02:13:36 »
I think that's an oil galley plug - probably inside the chain case or at the back of the engine.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

ja17

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #92 on: December 03, 2015, 08:56:28 »
Yes, a bad time to make this discovery. I think Dan is correct, an oil gallery plug. It is important. One goes behind the large chain sprocket on the front of the engine and two go on the rear of the block.  If one of the rear two are left out, you will have a major external oil leak and no oil pressure. Not sure how critical the front one is. I suspect you may have a huge internal oil leak and no oil pressure. Chuck Taylor has some recent experience with the front plug. Chuck are you reading this?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 09:02:35 by ja17 »
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

450sl

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #93 on: December 03, 2015, 09:21:17 »
the one behind this hole would be not too bad..

Pinder

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #94 on: December 03, 2015, 12:56:08 »
Ive figured out where it goes but it makes no sense to me.  (see two pictures attached).

One picture shows a banjo fitting to a plastic pipe that attaches to the top of the Nut that goes over the pressure relief value.

the other picture shows the plug going into the cap that covers the pressure relief valve. 

I think the original setup was the plastic pipe attached to the cap/bolt  that covers the pressure relief valve but someone had pluged it for some reason.

Any of this makes sense?
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

Benz Dr.

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #95 on: December 03, 2015, 20:45:15 »
No, not really. The oil pressure relief valve goes into the end of one of the oil galleys so that it will dump oil pressure over about 90 PSI. You can exceed that during cold starts in the winter.
I think there are two galley plugs of the same size at the back of the block and one of a smaller size at the front inside the chain case. The parts you refer to are part of the fuel tank venting system on late 280SL's where a plastic line runs from the overflow tank to a banjo fitting on the front of the block.   
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Pinder

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #96 on: December 03, 2015, 23:41:17 »
Ok So i am now 99% sure it belongs to the plug hole behind the auxiliary sprocket.  I now recall removing it during dis-assembly and putting it back (or thought I was putting it back into the same hole) but in fact put it onto the nut that is used for the gas tank ventilation that Dr Benz mentioned.  So tomorrow ill take the distributor hosing off and hopefully can install it through one of the holes in the Sprocket gear.

On the bright side at least i found this out now instead of this weekend which will likely be my first fire-up. Ill confirm tomorrow if this is the case.
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

ja17

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #97 on: December 04, 2015, 16:28:21 »
Originally, a banjo type fitting was used on the vent line. It is a much fine thread than the gallery plug.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

Pinder

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #98 on: December 04, 2015, 23:21:06 »
I notice there were two gallery plugs, when just behind the Auxilary gear and on larger one down the a few inches from the smaller one. Managed to get it on but took all day. had to take the timing chain off and remove sprocket. but its back on now.  I had also removed the injection pump and will re install that tomorrow. At least my brother did all the freeing up of the brake calipers and install the bench bled brake master cylinder. So as soon as pads arrive the brakes will be all squared away. this then will leave rebuild of fuel pump and cleanout of tank. Getting very close to running this car for the first time in over 30+ years. Cant wait. After this will be paint which will be done in the Spring.
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver

Pinder

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Re: Engine rebuild 280 SL
« Reply #99 on: December 07, 2015, 02:35:48 »
So this weekend has been busy with putting the front Plug in the engine that I found after i put it all togther  (thanks to everyones advice, on where it went it helped me locate the location)and installing Brake booster and master cylinder. Freeing up all brake calipers (waiting on pads). Installing the linkage bar on fire wall after fishing out the firewall nut that fell back behind the firewall. Cleaned up distrib and wiring , new points installed and gaped (NOTE: original spark plugs were way off specs, Re gapped originals and have a new set  to install after using the old ones for initial startup.). See pic for where Iam at. Also removed old fuel pump for rebuild.
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.
1997 Corvette C5 Silver. automatic
2015 BMW 320i xdrive
2021 Mercedes GLS450 Silver