Will be Painting my Car soon and need advice on Paint type and Color Change

[Pinder]

hi All,

Just wanted to see what peoples thought are on the follow.

1. Should I paint using Single stage paint or do Base coat and Clear. (I am painting it myself.) The paint I will use is Urethane 2K which I have used on different cars before and comes out great.
2. Original color of the car is Ivory. I am thiking I might do a different colour. Will this adversely devalue the car or does it not matter.

Pinder

[mdsalemi]

Pinter,

Might be useful to talk to a couple of body men in your area with a lot of paint experience and ask for their opinions. The good ones will happily share it. Though it isn't a universal consensus, the older classic cars are often painted with the single stage, as they were when new.

If you change the color, do it correctly in terms of EVERYTHING changing. The thing that makes most of us cringe is when we see the external body color one thing, and the interior painted bits another. Do it all the same, or stick to the original color.

If you do it right, the devaluation may be small. If you are doing it for resale only, be safe and keep it the same. If you are doing it for yourself, do what will make you happy! If ivory bores you, you'll be bored every time you look at the car...

[Garry]

Can only totally agree with Michael, Do the paint in single pack and if you chang colour then do it properly through out the car otherwise you will seriously devalue the cars value leaving two different colours in the car.

Garry

[Pinder]

Thanks for the great input guys. I'm leaning towards single stage 2k but wanted to try out base coat clear just for fun. I actually like the painting process. Yes I will give it my best shot and will paint everything the same colour. My personal preference is Silver or Black But Silver is hard to correct scratches etc being metalic and Black has to have perfect block sanding which I know I can do that as I've practiced it on two Buick Riviera I painted 71 Boat tail and 67 GS.  It will be next year when I actual paint the ewhole car  but as I have to paint the engine compartment first (engine is pulled and been bored out etc and Ive just finished painting it) I need the engine bay painted hence have to pick color.

the car is currently painted in Red and the engine bay has been covered in a matte black engine paint which I know is not correct. So I've been removing everything from the engine bay so I can either put it back to stock or switch colour. I'm doing all the work myself except machining (re-bore) etc.  This is a hobby for me so I like to do the work myself at my own pace.

Do either of you know if single stage or base coat clear is prefered by most people who appreciate these cars? Its only a little extra for me to go base coat clear in materials. 

Best Regards

 Pinder

[johndillman]

I don't know what is preferred by the market, etc., but I don't do anything but base clear these days, and most shops are similar.  Just so much easier to cut and buff the clear and the shine and endurance are hard to beat.  I do my work at home and if I tack off between coats of base, then give the clear enough time to flash between 3 or 4 coats, I get great results.  FWIW I tend to buy primers and paints from TCP Global online.  Good prices and great stuff.  No affiliation.

I like leaving the color original.

[Benz Dr.]

My painter uses single stage on our cars. Here's why you should too:
Base clear is excellent paint and it will shine for a long time. So is single stage and it will shine for a long time as well. It's when you need or want to do small repairs that single stage becomes the better choice.

 Our cars have welded on panels that leave no seams that you can tape off to; which means, in order to paint the nose panel correctly, you will have to paint the whole front clip if you use base clear. The clear coat you use may not show any blending lines at first if you do a spot repair but you will eventually see them as the finish ages. Single stage can be spot repaired and is the obvious choice in this case.

I'm not a body man so I'm not sure I explained this well enough but a couple of scratches on a 190SL convinced me never to use base clear on a car like that ever again.

 On a 107? No problem. 

[George Des]

I did my 67 230Sl in single stage PPG DB050 2K back in 2004. It was a bare metal redo and I used all PPG products including the epoxy primer, primer-surfacers and single stage top coat. I had considered using BC/C but opted for the single stage for many of the reasons stated above. Very happy with the outcome and the finish after color sanding and buffing still looks excellent today.  I did mine using a high volume-low pressure turbine in a makeshift spray booth with lots of clean air flow. Hopefully, you are aware of the dangers of spraying these 2k products and have access to a fresh-air breathing system.

George

[Shvegel]

You might want to consider Dupont Chroma One if you are painting in anything less than a spraybooth.  It dries fast and is very easy to color sand and buff. The best thing is that you get what you spray. If it is flat and smooth it will dry flat and smooth. If you spray orange peel that is what hou get. You don't have to try and guess how it will lay out so for anyone who doesn't paint on a regular basis it is wonder stuff.

[George Des]

I had pretty much the same experience using the PPG DCC Concept line. A number of different activators depending upon temperature and desired dry times. The quick drying times minimized amount of dust in the finish. I was able to color sand in 24 hours using a DA sander and a special sanding film with a sponge rubber backing. No need to use water when color sanding with these and the final finish buffed out beautifully with the Presta line of buffing and polishing products

[Pinder]

Thanks for the great help. I am planning on original color (DB 620 ) and close to placing my order with TCP Global.  Everyones been really helpful here. This year painting wise is coming to an end. Id like to get the engine bay done so I can get the rebuilt engine back in so i can at least move the car around. Then Ill do epoxy after removing all of the paint.I normally use the Carbide diskcs (i think thats what they are called from HF) they look like hard sponge but they rip through many layers of paint and gunk in a flash. I wear a full face mask /respirator when i do that. The neighbors love me (not).

[hauser]

One former member used Standox.

[Pinder]

I have to agree that repair on the single stage urethane is so much easier and ive done two cars in high gloss black and they came out very nice. here is my last one. i havent dont the full polishing  this is just after wet sanding and compounding. you can read a letter in the reflection very easily. Its also very durable. This was fron Eastwood 2k paints. I did use a full face mask and P100 filters. I change them on every spray.  Make shift spray booth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Hd2V1ySwk

[johndillman]

Excellent results can be achieved with either type of system, and perfect repairs can be, too.  I havent really had any problem spotting in repairs in bc/cc.  Your mileage may vary.

[Pinder]

John,


 the pint from TCP Global seems like its available from Restoration Shop line. Is that the brand you have used? Also for their BC /CC the basecoat does not use a hardner?  other brands such as Eastwood use harder in BC and Clear. I would use Eastwood but they dont have the DB620 color. 

your thoughts on this would be appreciated.

[George Des]

Be careful using a standard respirator with any catalyzed paints. The polyisocyanates contained in the activator are deadly poison and a fresh air respirator is the industry standard for spraying them. Fresh air systems for hobby use are fairly cheap these days and good insurance against lung and other respiratory problems down the line. I would also be wary of the durability of any clear coat that does not use an activator. The purpose of the activator is to dry the finish chemically rather than through evaporation and it is what gives the finish the hardness associated with the urethane finishes. It is akin to 2 part epoxy glues. Sounds like the non activated clear may be a lacquer product.  They dry quick, but are noted for being brittle and subject to shrinkage and chipping over time.

[johndillman]

Pinder, correct on both counts.  I haven't used MB colors in this liine, but painted a couple of Vettes that came out great.

Like most basecoats, no activator in the base, but the clear is, of course, catylzed.  I sanded the next to the last coat of base to get junk out, then tacked and hit it with the last coat  I like to give the base an hour or so to flash, then tack and start clearing.

I got some extra urethane reducer at a swap meet just in case I needed it (I didn't).  I cleaned everything with swap meet lacquer thinner.

[Benz Dr.]

I believe my painter uses Glasurit 22 line, single stage. He's coming over tomorrow so I will ask what he's using presently. All of our painters are using water base now as far as I know.

[Pinder]

Thanks Benz Dr.   I have decided based on all the advice is to return car to original Ivory colour and also do single stage. Let me know what the painter states about what they do these days.

[George Des]

Most of the originals were painted with Glasurit 20 line Alkyd Enamel. Glasurit stopped producing this many years ago. It provided a great finish but was not catalyzed and could not be color sanded, so you pretty much got what you shot with it. Could really only do a professional job with it if done in a super clean environment. 22 line uses the new technologies and can be color sanded to produce a beautiful finish. A lot of people do not like the super shiny finish that often results but a good painter can ensure that enough orange peel remains in the final product that it near duplicates the original finish.

[johnk]

I have not painted a car since acrylic enamel and Imron were new products but plan on starting mine soon. Can you buff the single stage to a nice shine when spraying metalics? Also back then the easiest way to avoid streaks in the metallic pattern was to spray the last color cotes lightly and then put the smooth finish on with the clear cote. How difficult is it to get a nice shine with no metallic streaks when using just a single stage?

Everyone's help is greatly appreciated.

[Pinder]

For metallic I would not recommend single stage.  Single Stage solid colors Acrylics Urethane polish up like glass and very high gloss and high build. two to 3 coats is all you need and dry fast.I do 4 coats and wet sand and polish. I also start with going to bare metal if I think its needed then epoxy primer two coats then high build primer 2k multiple coats around 3 at a time . Block sand until the car has zero dings etc. I also think its a good idea if you have the time to prime with 2k first. Let it sit for several months. Do the 2k high build block sand after it dries for several months. Then sand and spray finale single stage. Reason for this is the paint takes around 90 days to fully settle. you can wet sand next day and I have done that but regret it as paint will still settle and you will see scratches mirror through. I have corrected this by wet sand and buff several months later but its double work.

 They can also be clear coated for extra UV protection but I see no point in doing that. If my car was metallic I would do base coat clear. I am not the greatest painter but i plan to wet sand and polish and that so far has proved to be a great way to get a very nice mirror finish. I know its not original orange peal .But Ive never like the orange peal look and I will be working in a less that perfect paint booth. Wet sanding and polish also removes any dust etc that might settle . I want my paint finish to look like im looking in mirror. Thats my personal preference. I have a late model Mercedes and I cant stand the fact that paying all that money for it and it has orange people worse than a honda. I feel that these are special cars and I have always wanted one and now that I have it I want the paint to look like its a work of art.

[johnk]

Pinder,

This is extremely helpful, especially the part about letting the high build primer set for a couple of months. When I painted cars back in the 70's and early 80's, body work that initially looked perfect under a mirror-like finish would dry out after several months and would start to show the edge lines of the body filler if you looked close enough. I didn't know if that was still a potential problem with today's materials, but it sounds like it still is to some level. I agree with wanting my car to have the perfect show car finish when you are doing the work yourself. I can still leave some orange peel still in the finish by just not sanding as much if I want.

Did you strip the doors or hood on your Pagoda and if you did, what special preparation did you have to do for the aluminum?

Thanks!
John K

[Pinder]

John,

 Im in middle of the engine rebuild so have not started paint yet. But for Aluminum parts I plan to do one or two panels at a time. Whatever I can do in one day. For example for a door I Plant to remove it, sand it to bare metal and imedialy clean it with a degreesers. then shoot it with 2 or more coats of Epoxy DTM primer. this would be a great base to start with and you wont need to worry about oxidization of the aluminum, Once at this point you can do the 2k Primer and any body filler you need at your own pace. ive been using the Eastwood body fillers. they are a step up from Bondo. They shrink less. But as i said before everything shrinks so let it all dry out for several months then move on to next layer.

[dseretakis]

A friend is having his w108 250S repainted at a local shop. We went over there today to check on the progress and I asked if he was using a single stage urethane. He said that he was but he was top coating it with an integrated clear which basically allows you to mix the paint into the clear giving the final finish the added shine and protection of a clear. Anybody hear of this? The results looked beautiful.

[johndillman]

The advice on letting things offgas and shrink is excellent.  As long as protected from excess humidity, the longer the better. 

Glasurit was mentioned and is great paint.  I would not have problems with any toxicity, either, as I would pass out at the price, and would never actually get around to having it mixed.  Great products, though.

I have  heard of mixing base with clear in an overall job, but only where you want to be able to rub color off for judging.  Thinkiing about Corvettes here, and have never been a fan of that.  It is often done with repairs.  I don't know that it would matter much, although I would be concerned about muddying the clear. I'd be afraid you'd lose the depth, but can't say one way or the oher foor sure.