Author Topic: VW Diesel Deception (Read 72956 times)

neelyrc · « **Reply #100 on:** May 07, 2017, 06:18:24 »

Quote from: wwheeler on December 23, 2015, 19:30:58

So far no word on what is going to happen to the ill fated TDI. Europe has a solution I believe, but not the US. We shall see.....

https://www.wsj.com/search/term.html?KEYWORDS=Volkswagen+TDI

Apparently the TDI is selling like hot cakes!!

wwheeler · « **Reply #101 on:** May 08, 2017, 03:12:36 »

Yes, I will have to take a look. Thanks for posting! BTW, VW has my old TDI and now (January 2017) I am now getting correspondence from Bosch about a payment from them.

neelyrc · « **Reply #102 on:** May 08, 2017, 06:43:53 »

Quote from: wwheeler on May 08, 2017, 03:12:36

I am now getting correspondence from Bosch about a payment from them.

I am not surprised. If you follow the links inside the NYT article posted By Alfred, you will find articles indicating that Bosch are up to their eyeballs in the deception.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #103 on:** May 08, 2017, 15:51:10 »

...and now there's a coming book on the matter: Faster, Higher, Farther: The Volkswagen Scandal

http://a.co/gDXhpRI

"#1 new release in [Amazon's] Hoaxes and Deceptions genre"

66andBlue · « **Reply #104 on:** May 08, 2017, 17:25:45 »

Michael,
did you read the article in the NYT that I linked? It was written by the author of the book that you discovered on Amazon.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #105 on:** May 08, 2017, 18:51:10 »

Quote from: 66andBlue on May 08, 2017, 17:25:45

did you read the article in the NYT that I linked? It was written by the author of the book that you discovered on Amazon.

Alfred, I didn't read your link, only because I've been getting the NYT for years, and thus have been reading the article(s) (there are many) not only there, but also in the WSJ and in the Detroit News and Free Press as well. Needless to say but I will say it anyway--it's pretty big news in these parts.

But I did see a blurb quite recently announcing this book and that it was written by the author and "lead investigator" as it were, of the NYT article series, and the book is "soon to be released". What it looks like is that there was so much information, so many articles, so much research, that it had to be put into concise book form. THEN I went to Amazon to get the link for our folks here...

I particularly enjoyed the Amazon assignment to the "hoaxes and deceptions" genre. I'm in the process of re-reading "Taken for A Ride" about the "merger of equals". I wonder if THAT is in the same genre?

Stimorolgum · « **Reply #106 on:** July 26, 2017, 21:37:11 »

The emission regulations are made so that no diesel engine less than 3 liters will pass. Or the car will be too sluggish for the consumer if used in test mode.

This is a way for USA to regulate the market to its own advantage.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #107 on:** February 18, 2018, 21:11:22 »

And, if it hasn't been mentioned somewhere before, Netflix has an original series out now called "Dirty Money". https://youtu.be/CsplLiZHbj0
Season 1, Episode 1 is about the VW scandal...titled "Hard NOx" released on 26-January.
Made me angry again about the arrogant smugness of the VW execs. At least two are in jail, thank goodness...

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎ · « **Reply #108 on:** February 18, 2018, 21:42:46 »

Mike, yes I saw it the other night it truly is discusting someone said "top executives did not know what a bunch of engineers were doing" really ... what BS that is. I hope more will serve jail time and heavy fines.

Must be like most large companies now with Accountaints running the companies now (no pun intended for Accountants). At least when I was in the work force (before starting my own business) it was mostly Engineers in charge of large corporations. This all changed now it's all about the dollar not the quality anymore.

Dieter

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #109 on:** February 19, 2018, 18:09:26 »

My personal response is I won't ever buy a VW product in the future.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #110 on:** February 19, 2018, 18:45:59 »

For those that watch "Hard NOx" there is a subtle subtext, where they basically mention how the vast discrepancy between real-world results, and test-cycle results, and that both BMW and MB diesels also showed a similar pattern. However, the documentary was on VW so this was not explored beyond a brief mention.

I don't know much about European diesels but I know that MB's in the USA have DEF. That's a whole different animal in terms of tailpipe emissions, but too costly on a VW in that price point.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #111 on:** February 19, 2018, 21:44:22 »

I am hearing that real road results are usually 4-5 times higher than test. That is what was quoted in Dirty Money for MB and BMW. This is also what I read in the press. VW results were 40x higher. And all of that in view of "clean" advertising. And experiments on animals and planned (but I think never effected) experiments on people.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #112 on:** May 03, 2018, 21:13:22 »

Winterkorn Indicted in US Federal Court:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-ex-ceo-martin-winterkorn-indicted-in-emissions-probe-1525378593?mod=djemalertNEWS

Peter van Es · « **Reply #113 on:** May 04, 2018, 10:25:02 »

He won't be going to the US on vacation any time soon...

mdsalemi · « **Reply #114 on:** May 04, 2018, 12:17:43 »

Quote from: Peter van Es on May 04, 2018, 10:25:02

He won't be going to the US on vacation any time soon...

In the other news that followed, the Feds are also looking for another VW-Audi former employee, one Italian national Giovanni Pamio. He, unlike Winterkorn, isn't subject to the non-extradition laws.

Funny thing...some Europeans seemingly cannot stay away from Florida or Disneyworld. [From the what the heck was he thinking department] That's how the Feds caught up with Oliver Schmidt...

I hope Germany provides a nice retirement for Winterkorn, because he probably won't be crossing many borders!

66andBlue · « **Reply #115 on:** May 04, 2018, 22:41:45 »

Quote from: mdsalemi on May 04, 2018, 12:17:43

....

I hope Germany provides a nice retirement for Winterkorn, because he probably won't be crossing many borders!

Or a new identity and passport?

wwheeler · « **Reply #116 on:** June 07, 2018, 23:45:32 »

What goes around, comes around. Ever thought you would see VW dealers selling TDI again? These are low mileage "fixed" cars on the lots ready to sell. https://www.hendrickvwfrisco.com/used-Frisco-2014-Volkswagen-Jetta+SportWagen-TDI+wSunroof-3VWPL7AJ6EM610752

Despite all that has happened, I am glad they are using these vehicles instead of scrapping all of them.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #117 on:** June 09, 2018, 15:15:10 »

Quote from: wwheeler on June 07, 2018, 23:45:32

These are low mileage "fixed" cars on the lots ready to sell.

I was under the impression that they could not be easily fixed; that making this car/engine meet the emissions rules would require a DEF system or something equally large and costly.

Thus I ask--what was the fix on these cars?

Mike Hughes · « **Reply #118 on:** June 09, 2018, 21:38:01 »

As part of VW's settlement with VW Diesel owners the owners had a choice of letting VW take the car back or keeping it. The market value is certainly less than it would have been pre-fiasco. Either way VW compensated the owners for the loss of value. If an owner elected to take some compensation, keep the car and trade it in on something else later, there is likely nothing to prevent a dealer from taking one of these VW Diesels in trade and sending it to auction or offering it for sale on their used car lot. I think the only issue with buying, selling or trading one of these used VW Diesels at this point might be that one might not be able to register it in certain jurisdictions with very strict emissions standards. I'm thinking California and the Northeast states that must also comply with California Emissions.

neelyrc · « **Reply #119 on:** June 09, 2018, 22:20:49 »

Quote from: mdsalemi on June 09, 2018, 15:15:10

Thus I ask--what was the fix on these cars?

The attached article indicates that the EPA and CARB have approved several different fixes. Cost is said to be "over" $1000 which is certainly an open ended amount but taken in the context of the article this appears to be an approximation of cost. This article doesn't provide specifics on the fix but refers to various EPA documents on the fixes approved.

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/03/29/volkswagen-fix-us-europe-effective-dieselgate/

wwheeler · « **Reply #120 on:** June 10, 2018, 02:19:13 »

Having had one of these cars, I am familiar with the process. Any car sold now as a TDI especially by a dealer, has to have been "fixed". In fact one dealer here in town advertises on their website that TDIs are back. Not sure how many of you are familiar with the massive storage lots for bought-back TDIs around the US. One is in Colorado and a friend of mine drove by it last year. He said there were thousands of cars there. He drove by about a month ago and said that there were far fewer cars in the lot.

My guess is they are picking the best of the litter, fixing them and selling them. VW seems to have a target price range from 14k to 20K. I have never seen one less that 14K. Financially it seems to make sense to me in that VW could cut their losses per car by 30 to 50%. Still the future of passenger diesel cars is dead and I would assume that to be true worldwide.

neelyrc · « **Reply #121 on:** June 10, 2018, 17:14:36 »

Quote from: wwheeler on June 10, 2018, 02:19:13

Still the future of passenger diesel cars is dead and I would assume that to be true worldwide.

Not yet dead but dying very slowly!

In Europe, market share for diesel versus gasoline models has declined this year to 46% from 50% two years ago. Much of this decline can be blamed on the VW diesel deception saga. Some of the larger cities have banned diesels in certain areas and some have plans to ban them completely. Bans on all internal combustion engines are also being discussed.

One of the surprising effects of the reduction of diesel vehicles is that it presents a problem for overall air quality in Europe.
Gasoline engines produce substantially more CO₂ while the diesel produces the feared NOX but very low CO₂. Without diesels in the mix environmental targets will be difficult to meet. The Association of European Auto Constructors (ACEA) has asked for a delay from 2021 to 2030 in implementing the 20% reduction in CO₂ emissions presently mandated to meet climate change goals in Europe.

While the percentage of diesels sold has slipped below 50% in Europe as a whole, in Italy the anti-diesel wave has not hit. The percentage of market share here remains firm at 57%. As long as diesel fuel sells at a 10% discount to gasoline, the Italians will not give in.

Garry · « **Reply #122 on:** June 10, 2018, 22:13:05 »

Same here in Australia Ralph, the diesel engine is still the preferred motor in the SUV’s and larger 4 wheel drives and in quite a few cars as well.

I think a lot of Australians thought the VW Dieselgate saga was a lot of beat up and VW’s still sell very well here. At the time, I wanted a new SUV and had heard that the VW dealers had sold next to no cars for several months as all the press bad mouthed what had occured. I decided it was a great time to negotiate and buy VW so went to the dealer and negotiated a further 30% discount in addition to the fire sale prices for a top of the line Toureg at that time. Best buy I have ever done and saved myself $20k.

Whilst I understand all the angxt over the fraud on the software of the polution device, I dont understand why you would give back what was a really good vehicle rather than just take the compensation. Then again I dont understand the vehicle herd mentality that some in the USA have.

wwheeler · « **Reply #123 on:** June 10, 2018, 22:45:36 »

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard that Europe had a target date to get rid of all new diesels sales. I believe the big push is electric. I get the change in pollution thought and I agree.

My reasoning for selling my TDI back to VW was three fold. 1) I really didn't trust what the fix was or if it was even going to be done correctly. I didn't want continual problems. At the time I sold, the "fix" was not even published or any near approved. 2) VW gave me a very fair price. It was as if nothing had happened and I just sold a four year old car. 3) I really wanted to be done with the whole ordeal and move on with my life. VW made it relatively easy to sell back. So there you have it and I am back with VW with a 2015 Toureg as of last week. Because of the new Atlas in the US, I got a great price on the Toureg. No longer selling it in the US as of 2017.

neelyrc · « **Reply #124 on:** June 11, 2018, 05:14:55 »

Quote from: wwheeler on June 10, 2018, 22:45:36

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard that Europe had a target date to get rid of all new diesels sales.

Wallace, The target date is 2040. This applies to all internal combustion engines not just diesels. The environmentalists are pushing to bring this back to 2030.

News:

Author Topic: VW Diesel Deception (Read 72956 times)

Stimorolgum