Author Topic: Transform an auto to stick.  (Read 5635 times)

hauser

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Transform an auto to stick.
« on: October 15, 2004, 18:52:18 »
Has anyone ever turned an automatic into a manual stick?  How difficult would this be?

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

Tom

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Re: Transform an auto to stick.
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2004, 20:05:20 »
Why would anyone want to do this?  I think the auto is a nice ride.  It's a pain to do all of that coordinated hand-foot coordination stuff.

I am not trying to stir anything up-obiviously I prefer an automatic.  I know many others prefer the stick.  I have had a chance to buy 3 Pagodas and they all have an auto tranny.

_____________________________________________

1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic (restored & enhanced)
1971 280sl Tobacco Brown (low mileage stock)
1970 280sl Deep Red (Project Car)
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1971 280sl Tunis Beige Metallic

Douglas

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Re: Transform an auto to stick.
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2004, 21:10:34 »
Dan Caron has done the job quite a few times. Care to comment, Dr.?

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

hauser

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Re: Transform an auto to stick.
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2004, 21:58:07 »
Tom, I learned with a stick and have always had a manual transmission vehicle ever since.  I also have a couple A/T in the stable but I do prefer shifting.
 :)



1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

DaveB

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Re: Transform an auto to stick.
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2004, 02:02:49 »
I think the crankshaft would need to be balanced with the new flywheel.

DaveB
DaveB
'65 US 230sl 4-speed, DB190

ja17

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Re: Transform an auto to stick.
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2004, 14:38:08 »
Hello Hauser,
I have done the conversion many times both ways (auto to std. or std to auto). A good donor car is a big help in time and money. W108 sedans have the most donor parts unless you have a W113 parts car.
First you need to understand the differences in the W113 engines. The 230-SL has a counter balanced crankshaft. This means that there are throws or massive areas  on the crankshaft. The crankshaft is made "out of balance".  By adding mass to areas of the flywheel and front vibration dampner that counter the mass on the crankshaft, the entire assembly is brought into balance. Each separate part is out of balance! It is the same concept as adding weights to a wheel to balance tires!
The four main bearing engine in the 230-SL lends itself to this counter balanced design. As far as donor cars you would need a four main bearing sedan like a 220 or 230 series finback (W111) or coupe etc.
The crankshafts, flywheels, vibration dampners in the automatic or standard version of these four main bearing engines are different and interchanging could cause major balancing problems unless the flywheels and dampners are balanced to match the units they are replacing.
Then along came the W129 (250-SL) and W130 (280-SL) engines. These engines (except for the earliest 250-SE engines) had "balanced" crankshfts. These new seven main bearing engines had cranshafts, flywheels, and vibration dampners which were balanced separately. Each part was balanced. With these engines, flywheels auto or standard could be interchanged without much danger of major out of balance problems.
To summarize when converting a 230-SL the flywheel will need to be matched to the original so it will counterbalance correctly.
Swapping flywheels on the 250-SL or 280-SL engines will normally not cause vibration problems.
Now that you understand the basic concept there is a lot of other thing to consider. You will need a pedal assembly with the hydraulic master cylinder, slave cylinder, reseviour, metal line, rubber line clips etc. Surprisingly even the pedals are sedan parts!
Next the front half of the driveshafts are different. You will have to have one made or will have to order a W113. The shifter and linkages will need to be switched (bits and pieces are sedan others are strictly W113.
The flywheels themselves would need to be changed with compatable sedan or W113. If you are going to automatic you will need to remove the centering bearing and dust cover in the back end of the crankshaft. If you are going to standard you will need to add these.  the crankshaft/flywheel boilts are different lengths for an automatic or standard. Of coarse a clutch disc, pressure plate, and throw out bearing is needed for a standard. Lastly and most obviously a transmission is needed. Sedan top shift units work fine but they have a stump pulling low first gear depending on what sedan your donor is. All Mercedes final drives (4th) are 1:1 in any standard or automatic except the 5 speed which is an overdrive in most cases. Review the BBB or Tech data manual for gearing on all the transmissions of the era.
The speedometer cableis different in the automatics and sticks.
There are some minor electrical interfaces which have to be dealt with also. Back-up lights, nuetral safety features, kickdown wiring, and possibly some engine idling interfaces may have to be dealt with.
I am sure I have forgotten a couple minor items also, but this is the bulk of it.

It may be cheaper and easier to just buy an SL with what you want on it or learn to love it as it is!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
« Last Edit: October 16, 2004, 18:38:24 by ja17 »
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

hauser

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Re: Transform an auto to stick.
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2004, 21:41:55 »
Not as easy as one would think.  I have seen this done just did not know how involved something like this would be.  Thanks Joe!  You have really put this in perspective for me.  Now all I have to do is find a really nice 4 spd that doesn't cost a fortune.

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

Benz Dr.

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Re: Transform an auto to stick.
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2004, 10:59:52 »
Yeah, Joe has it covered pretty well. Going from an auto to a srandard is much easier to do as there's very little in the way of electrical things to worry about. The only thing that comes to mind would be the nuetral safety switch and all I did was make a jumper wire and loop it over the switch so the car would start in gear ( actually in nuetral or clutch pressed in ) and another set of wires that need to be patched into the reverse light switch.
The throttle lift will not work any more and you might need to do some minor adjusting on the linkage or install the standard type dashpot on top of the manifold if you have problems with stalling.

Daniel G Caron
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

n/a

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Re: Transform an auto to stick.
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2004, 14:00:24 »
If you drive in a lot in town an automatic is really great. In heavy traffic a stick gets pretty old pretty fast.