Security...Privacy...and government loop holes...

[ChrisInNashville]

I am more than mildly creeped out right now...there's been forum and newsletter discussion about the security of our cars...but alas, I have a live example of how my car led someone to my door.   Now, I'm trying to figure out what to do about it since I see a gapping procedural hole Federal Regs and state access.   Stick with me while I lay out the facts:

In the last several months, I've had three colleagues (and their families) held for ransom.   As a result, I'm hyper sensitive to security considerations including a camera'd, alarmed, always locked home.

Today, the receptionist at my office handed me a note from someone who saw my pagoda and wanted me to contact her by email.

I did.  The email said:   "You left a note about my SL.   How may I help you?"

She replied:  "Just an admirer...blah...blah...blah...love to see the car sometime"

My reply:  "Interesting!   Out of curiousity, have we met?   When did you see it and how did you trace it to me?"

Her reply:   "Saw it at [a local restaurant] in July. Took a picture.   Forgot about it until now.   I'm a lawyer so I found it thru the tag and internet".

So, then I called the County DMV and said basically "tell me more...how does this happen?"

Their reply:
- The info is protected by Federal Law [I've learned that's the Federal Driver's Privacy Protection Act of 2000 - summarized here:   https://apps.tn.gov/online/dppa.html]
- Access is limited to bona fide business reasons (yeah...looks like that condition worked here, doesn't it??? )
- Access (at least in Tennessee) is allowed to and includes auto dealers, lawyers, private investigators (among others).   Ironically, I understand from other sources that access is restricted to cops unless their in IAD...go figure!   Data points don't include SSN or phone numbers...but they include name and address...and guess what, my colleagues were held ransom IN THEIR HOMES!

Now, at this point, I have no reason to think that the woman did anything other than cross a line without thinking of the implications (although I'm not letting go of it yet)...but alas, think of the broader implications...think of how many people may have access to our home addresses just by seeing our license plate number!   Ponder a parts department employee who has a road rage problem with you and uses this information to find you.   Ponder a kidnapper who presumes wealth follows assets and targets have wealth.   And THIS is problematic to me!

Am I the only one who sees this as a problem?   Should I take this issue up with the state?   What would you do?

[ChrisInNashville]

And since posting this, I have changed my Profile Name which mimicked my actual name and eliminated my city from the signature.    Unfortunately, my name led her to my office because as a named executive officer of a public company, I have no ability to limit my internet presence thanks to SEC regs... down to my income and work related stock holdings...

[cabrioletturbo]

Unfortunately, my name led her to my office because as a named executive officer of a public company, I have no ability to limit my internet presence thanks to SEC regs... down to my income and work related stock holdings...

I guess this comes with territory.

Re: safety/security of your assets and loved ones, I believe one would entertain caution as you did with the inquisitive 'lawyer' over there...
Re: driver's privacy law, I believe you are onto something, however may turn out futile. Personally, I would still entertain/ramp up the safety and the security of my loved ones and assets, in that order.

[ChrisInNashville]

I guess this comes with territory.

Yep.  After 10+ yrs, I was used to that...but someone seeing my car and having a free path to my address?   

[cabrioletturbo]

That would not differ from anyone trying to perform a telephone number look up. If you phone number was not searchable (it was on the Do Not Call list), no business would cold call you.
If your name and number is searchable, it would be very easy to get the address, too. The phone privacy method proved to be working, albeit partially. I still receive occasional cold calls.

If the same would apply to licence plates, we would end up in the situation we are in today. Police, lawyers and maybe few others would still be able to get to your home, uninvited.
And with your home, I do not mean literally. The privacy in this case still falls in the gray area.

Common sense tells me if anyone would really want to get to you or your assets, nothing would stop them.
Analytic in me tells me protect yourself: have a gate, alarm, cameras, GPS tracking, insurance, body guard, more body guards, move to another city, state, continent, planet - it is all about how secure you feel and to what extent you are willing to go. But I do believe you knew all of this already.

I experienced first hand someone snooping in my backyard and around my cars when I was not around. Luckily I have good neighbors.
It is not pleasant experience at all. There is bad and then there is worse. Prevent the worst.

[Benz Dr.]

There may not be any privacy or security today; only a better or different place to live. I get all kinds of spam because others have my email address. I get unwanted calls on my phone because others have my phone number. I haven't, at least so far, had my shop broken into or home invaded and have some fear of the first and little of the other. I live in a rural area with limited security aside from a very smart dog with sharp teeth and a very loud bark.

  Not sure if this helpful but there is an answer here. If you no longer feel safe where you live, and I'm not talking about cars which are stolen every day, move the hell out of there!

 

[ChrisInNashville]

Here's my problem. 
I get so spam...I'm careful who I provide my primary emails too...and maintain "disposable emails" for unnecessary purposes

I get to telemarketing calls, I don't even have a land line anymore

I'm even considering placing my house in trust to avoid having my name/address in the easily searchable online tax assessor' data base. 

My problem is when the government - who should be the #1 protector of my privacy - becomes the weak link in protecting it.  I've been told that,  in Maryland, anyone with an ID can walk in to the DMV and get the address of someone from their license plate number.  Of true, This goes a little too far IMHO.

[Peter van Es]

Sorry to hear of your experiences. I have a few more suggestions:

• remove your website from your profile... it gives your name even if you've killed the site
• remove your signature (it gives your location), unless you are ok with that level of detail

I've never been too worried in the Netherlands with showing my car, and its licence plate, even on the internet. As you've found, it depends on where you live.

I know of 5 Pagoda's in my neighbourhood. And where they live. If you keep your eyes open you will spot them. So can others. Full protection would mean hiding them in a barn / basement / garage and never taking them out. It just isn't worth it.

Peter

[Cees Klumper]

For a totally different slant to this story: could it be the lady in question took a liking more to the proprietor of the vehicle than to the vehicle itself? Couldn't help but wonder ...

[ejboyd5]

In the last several months, I've had three colleagues (and their families) held for ransom.

I can only think of one line of commerce where this peril is commonplace - perhaps you should consider early retirement.

[ChrisInNashville]

Sorry to hear of your experiences. I have a few more suggestions:

• remove your website from your profile... it gives your name even if you've killed the site
• remove your signature (it gives your location), unless you are ok with that level of detail

I've never been too worried in the Netherlands with showing my car, and its licence plate, even on the internet. As you've found, it depends on where you live.

I know of 5 Pagoda's in my neighbourhood. And where they live. If you keep your eyes open you will spot them. So can others. Full protection would mean hiding them in a barn / basement / garage and never taking them out. It just isn't worth it.

Peter

Peter, THANK YOU!    I set up that profile 12 years ago and forgot about the website (which I took offline YEARS ago...)!

As to me and my occupation, I suppose we'll all be buying ransom insurance and hiring body guards like the Mexicans soon...

Bigger picture, this isn't about me or my occupation...it's about the bigger picture of security that affects us all and how something as basic as a license tag leads to our front door.      

For a totally different slant to this story: could it be the lady in question took a liking more to the proprietor of the vehicle than to the vehicle itself? Couldn't help but wonder ...

My wife says that's not possible...

[Raymond]

All illusions of privacy have been taken away.  For many years in Florida, I had a PO Box on my driver's license and auto registration.  In the wake of the Patriot Act, they required a street address.  I gave them my place of business.  They never checked.  However, if you happened to see my car in my garage, and looked up the address in the public record, you'd have my name too.  Don't blame it solely on the government, people are all too happy to have Facebook and other apps on their mobile phones.  Those apps require access to your contact list.  Most business people have their phones synced to their office email and contact list.  Therefore, if you are in a contact list for anyone who has one of the hundreds of apps on their mobile phones, your information is compromised.

I understand why being contacted this way is scary.  Being aware of your situation and taking prudent measures is the best you can do. If someone is seriously targeting my car, there is little I can do to stop them.  That is why I have insurance.  I have poured blood, sweat, and dollars into it but at the end of the day, it is merely bits of tin and rubber.  I choose not to live in fear.  That said, I don't know anyone who has ever been held for ransom. 

[Benz Dr.]

Interesting. You say the woman who contacted you is a lawyer and that she used her position to find out who you are? Did she abuse those conditions in any way or can any lawyer in your state poke around in the DMV as much as or as often as they like? Is a call to the State bar warranted?

 In Ontario, the police have access to such files as well as the Ministry of Transportation and Service Ontario ( same as DMV ) offices. However, every key stroke made by Service Ontario employees, or their managers, is monitored for fraud or abuse. This is not an operation you want to mess with. You can find out who the past and current owners of a used car are by purchasing a UVIP but that info will not give you their address and only the city they live/d in at the time of registration. There is a record of this transaction for the purpose of buying or a selling used car and your name is on it. And, it's the sellers responsibility to provide it.   

[ChrisInNashville]

Interesting. You say the woman who contacted you is a lawyer and that she used her position to find out who you are? Did she abuse those conditions in any way or can any lawyer in your state poke around in the DMV as much as or as often as they like? Is a call to the State bar warranted? 

The short answer is that, under Federal Law, her use for anything other than narrowly defined reasons, was a violation of law.  I'm not going to address this with the Bar... I hold the State equally responsible.  As I pursue the violation with the Department of Revenue who owns the database and administers the access, then I suspect they'll be looking for a scapegoat...and that would be a deflection of their responsibility imho

[Garry]

Totally agree with you Dan,  It would be absolutely dead simple to trace the person through the data base access she made.

On the matter of privacy vs security, there is a fine line between 'feeling safe' and 'being safe'.  In the USA many people have guns to feel safe but the truth of ‘being safe’ with so many having weapons is a moot point that the constitution being a double edge sward for many and many countries have put 'being safe' ahead of 'feeling safe’ and legeslat strict controls on who needs to have weapons of max killing capability. Still doesn’t stop the killing but sure reduces the likelihood of the ‘crazies’ being able to get weapons.

Its a bit sad Lookout, that you feel the need to limit your pleasure of owning a Pagoda through different guises due to the concern of your safety through its ownership.  I guess as they get more valuable the risk increases but hopefully not to the point that you feel the need to hide the car or indeed sell it.

Garry

[mdsalemi]

Frankly, some people are simply paranoid; the definition being extreme and irrational fear or distrust of others. So somebody loved a car and went through a process to find the owner and talk to them? I don't find that a big deal. If this kind of thing bothers someone, you need to have a totally nondescript car and live off the grid. Pay cash for everything, and disconnect. Maybe, buy an island somewhere...

When I put together Pagoda Style, the book, I got to see some of this first hand. The vast majority (there were 67 contributors including myself) of profiles were totally honest and undisguised in any way. In others, just a few, there were elaborate schemes to disguise the car; the number plates, and or the location of the owner--ruses I needed to respect and actually be complicit with. I'm convinced some names might have been altered a bit too. To what end? I don't know. I just followed along. Though I respected everyone's opinions that doesn't mean I agreed with them.

I'd like to offer that of all those who were totally truthful, did not disguise the number plate or anything else--nothing ill came of this. Believe me, I'm sure I would have heard about it.

Ray Hays has the right idea: If someone is seriously targeting my car, there is little I can do to stop them.  That is why I have insurance.  I have poured blood, sweat, and dollars into it but at the end of the day, it is merely bits of tin and rubber.  I choose not to live in fear.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

I recommend this Also I must agree with Ray.

1) Go to Walmart and get a pair of oversized work boots get them dirty and leave them by the front door.

2) leave a copy of Guns & Amo Magazine besides the the dirty work booths.

3) put two giant dog leashes next to the boots and magazine.

4) leave the following note at the door;-

Hi Barb,

Me, Marcele, Donni, Ray and Jimy Earl went to the Amo store to get more Amo and beer. The key is under the front door mat. Don't mess with the Pitbulls, they got the mailman this morning and messed him up bad. I don't think Killer took part in it, however, it was hard to tell with all the blood after the mailman session. I locked all four of them in the house, you best wait for our return.

Be right back,

Big Jim

[PnHi]

I got a call in the 90's from someone who identified himself as a MD State Trooper and the son of a man I purchased a 1964 Pontiac GTO from in 1971.  His father had passed away and he found my name among some paperwork. He had looked up my name in state files and I was the 3rd Mike ____ he had called.  I let him know it was long gone.  He thanked me and that was the last I heard and thought nothing of it.

FYI... 389 Rochester 4 barrel and 4 speed.  I blew it up after installing three deuces. I sold it in 1976 for $400 with a 68 400ci motor. Ahh to be 21 again.