Author Topic: Original Fuel Cap Lost (Read 11766 times)

Mike K · « **on:** March 03, 2016, 20:19:41 »

I went out for a long drive the the other day. When I got home I saw that the fuel cap was missing. During my drive both windows were open and at one point I noticed a strong smell of fuel coming into the cabin....

Recently the fuel cap has been coming loose and before every drive I've had to unlock and re-lock it to secure it.

I've found an "original" replacement at Authentic Classics for the eye watering amount of $560- plus shipping, plus import duty into France= approx. $750-

The other option is this reproduction at €99- (see pic) without the 3 pointed star. I've now ordered this one.

Either way, what pisses me off more, is the fact that I was able to use 1 key for fuel cap, doors & ignition...
I guess I'll need to find a really good locksmith to try and match it up without trashing the replacement fuel cap lock, or just live with it...
Does anyone have any experience on this, is it possible to match/change the fuel cap lock to the existing master key?

Thanks & best,
Mike

Kayvan · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2016, 21:09:17 »

Sorry to hear; sounds crazy but this happened to another member and he walked entire route of drive and found his...

You can find OEM new M-B fuel cap for less than that price; and if seller sends it via U.S. Mail there is a national mail treaty without duties v. private carriers (FedEx, UPS, DHL, that collect duties).

MB Part # 000-471-47-30

There are a few threads with parts # for M-B venting & non-venting caps:

http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=1310.0;nowap

This vendor seems to have it; confirm that is key locking type not just twist.

http://www.genuinemercedesparts.com/parts/index.cfm?searchText=000-471-47-30&make=Mercedes-Benz&action=oePartSearch&siteid=215306

In future, cut a strip of rubber (from hardware store) so you can have in spare pocket, wrap it around cap and turn full 15 degrees from when edge grips.

Mike K · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2016, 22:41:56 »

Kayvan- thanks very much for the reply, much appreciate the feedback.
I'll follow up on the link you posted and see what type of cap it is.

I guess the next question to which there seems to be no definitive answer, should it be a vented or non-vented cap?

My car's a late 1971, originally US spec with the flat venting canister on the left side of the trunk.
There was also an occasional fuel leak onto the bumper, and every time I opened the cap after driving there was pressure release as well. I suspect that the pressure build up somehow pushed the cap loose. If the car sat for a day or two I often found the fuel cap came loose, and I had to unlock and re lock the fuel cap prior to driving.

Also replaced the cork seal several times as well as adding a rubber seal to make a tighter fit.

I have a cheap spare plastic locking cap which I had purchased from SLS for €16- just in case I lost the original cap. Which I'm now using until I receive the chrome cap on order.

FWIW the fuel tank is new, new sender unit, new fuel pump, fuel filter and lines I've also cleared the venting lines from the filler neck to the venting canister. So I'm not sure why there's pressure build up in the tank?
Possibly the venting canister is clogged up with old fuel debris from prior to me replacing the fuel tank?

Maybe as an experiment I should drill a small hole into this plastic cap to see if this stops the pressure build up in the fuel tank?
There must be a valid reason for Mercedes having two types of fuel caps, vented and non vented...

I'm confused, any input or ideas?

Thanks & best,
Mike

Kayvan · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2016, 22:51:33 »

That part # is for the Vented; the other part#s were on later 280 SL's with black plastic key holder.

Do your metal vent lines have the rubber funnel, with clamp at end that creates vaccum suction from flow of air when you drive?

http://www.sls-hh-shop.de/en/230-280SL-W113/47-Fuel-Tank/Sleeve-tank-ventilation-Sleeve-tank-ventilation.html?force_sid=71q4ebt1dkb9o5itjeo743f7d2?cnid=76

It really works; there is thin film of vapor on it after each drive.

My vent lines were plugged (both flexible ones in trunk - dry rotted; metal ones were leaking black oily fluid from years of hardened soot/vapor). Not sure how you cleared them (soaking, wire?); might be worth it to buy new.

Classic Center put in new lines/hoses (but kept canister, its NLA)and my trunk has no vapors and tank vents normally.

Mike K · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2016, 22:56:37 »

Where is the rubber funnel located?

Kayvan · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2016, 23:02:18 »

Under your bumper (below gas cap) there should be thin metal line; funnel attaches to end with very small metal clamp.

49er · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2016, 23:19:55 »

Here is a photo of mine that a took a few years back. Has been cleaned up a bit since

John

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2016, 03:34:37 »

I think we had come to refer to this as the FSVT (for Funnel Shaped Vent Thing) but I don't recall having seen that term used for a while ...

In fact just did a search and the most recent post that showed was from 3 years ago.

Mike K · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2016, 08:15:22 »

Thanks everyone for the feedback and replies.

My car doesn't have this funnel.
When looking at the SLS website it appears that there are 2 venting systems:
1. The more rounded venting tank with the funnel coming out at the bottom and 2. the flatter venting tank (which I have on my car) with what appears to be a different type of venting grommet and what looks like a more "elaborate" venting system -See pics below.

For some reason I had bought this venting grommet and have it on hand. I'm going to work my way through this system, probably start underneath the car at left rear and look for this venting grommet and see what I find there....

Depending on what I find, quite possibly I'll need to replace the venting lines from the filler neck to the venting tank.
The only issue is that I remember that the venting lines are "plastic welded / moulded" to the venting tank, which means cutting and splicing lines, I'm not entirely sure, should I be doing that?

If I make proper joins/splices, I guess it shouldn't be an issue, as after all the venting lines simply slide on to the 2 small pipes at the filler neck, unless of course the system builds up pressure in the venting tank and that's why the venting pipes are plastic welded at the venting tank?

Any more thoughts and input are welcome.

Thanks and best,

Mike

Paul & Dolly · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2016, 09:48:16 »

Hi Mike,

If you look in the Technical manual on this site under FUEL SYSTEM, the last three sections are Fuel Vapour Tank, Vent System and Emission Control,
The different systems are explained, it is well worth a read.

It is important to only use fuel grade hoses of the correct size if replacing any.

Keep well
Paul

Mike K · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2016, 09:53:09 »

Thank you very much Paul much appreciated. I'll go through the Tech Manual before tackling this.

Best,
Mike

Naj ✝︎ · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2016, 09:57:04 »

Hi, Mike,

Your late US car does not use the FSVT

There is a line from that flat vapour tank in the trunk going to the front of the engine. The fuel vapours are vented into the engine sump.Look for the pipe behind the left wheel arch.

naj

kampala · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2016, 11:28:46 »

Quote from: Mike K on March 03, 2016, 20:19:41

Does anyone have any experience on this, is it possible to match/change the fuel cap lock to the existing master key?

Mike, there are TWO types of Mercedes chrome caps for these cars. You had the type that can use the ONE key -- same as ignition etc. The earlier Pagodas came with a cap that used a different key from the ignition to open the fuel and door locks. It's not just a matter of re-keying --- the actual key pathway is different from one type to another.

An earlier cap can be used on a later car, but I don't think you can re-key to match your ignition since the key path is different. Ignition key is two sided and older fuel caps are single sided. I don't know key terminology, so my verbiage may be wrong.

Look closely at your OLD cap shown in your photo and you will see that the key slot is in the center of the little circle. Now look at the key slot in the new lock and you will see that the key slot is off to one side. Also, notice the key is not two-sided.

If one key is really important, I believe you will need a cap that has a key path in the center to accept the ignition key. If you want to pay the big money, I seem to recall that the classic center can order a correct cap with correct key based on your key code --- I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Tom Hanson mentioning this.

Best,

mmizesko · « **Reply #13 on:** March 04, 2016, 15:16:54 »

Mike,

Mine is a 1970, and the locking cap for 1 key has a centered slot, rather than the offset.

The 1 key versions are NLA, and the only place i could get one was from the MB Classic Center at a cost of a little under $400 US. (Tom Hanson, over here). Just bite the bullet and get one, otherwise you'll be kicking yourself. Just give the MB Classic Center your VIN, and they will match the lock to your key and send you a couple of more keys as well. The ones you see on ebay for $225 are non-OEM, and are the two key versions.

Mike Mizesko
Columbus, OH

Mike K · « **Reply #14 on:** March 04, 2016, 19:28:11 »

Naj, Oz & Mike- Thanks for the input and feedback, always appreciated.

I think you're right Mike, I may have to bite the bullet and buy an original fuel cap, even if it means using a separate key.

Prior to taking the car for a drive today I drilled a 2.5mm hole into the temporary plastic cap to see the effect on the pressure build up in the tank. When I opened the fuel cap after an hour's drive, I was very pleased that there was no "whoosh" or pressure release, no "gurgling" sounds in the tank, the cap had stayed locked in place and also there was no fuel leakage onto the bumper during the drive.

Pity I can't chrome plate this cheap shitty €16- plastic fuel cap; far fewer hassles than the now departed original fuel cap...

Thanks again to all & best,

Mike

mmizesko · « **Reply #15 on:** March 04, 2016, 21:04:52 »

Mike,

Just to clarify, Tom Hanson from the mercedes classic center in California got me a real mercedes OEM 1 key chrome fuel cap with mercedes logo. About $380, (2 years ago). I just didn't want to have two keys on my key ring in my pocket all the time.

Mike Mizesko

114015 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2016, 01:11:52 »

Hello Mike,

Sorry to hear about your lost fuel cap.

Everything the others reported is correct (AFAIK).

There's only one thing, the gas caps our Pagodas (and same aged pass. cars use) are NON-vented !

The venting of the fuel tank occurs only via the venting cannisters in either way the others (and the Tech manual) have described here. So, if you have vaccuum or too high pressure in your tank the only solution is trying to find the clogged line somewhere. Drilling a hole into a brand-new # 000 471 47 30 (which would be the correct fuel cap for you - the one-key type) is definitely not an option.

Good luck !

Achim

Tyler S · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2016, 01:24:39 »

As Achim was typing I was typing almost the same thing. Vented caps were only used on very early cars with no emission controls/ vapor canister. If you have a vented cap on these later cars it would defeat the whole purpose of the vapor system.
Instead of the "funnel thing", On the late 280's you have a rubber grommet that connects to a hole in the car body as a means of the vapor to escape. Its just a rubber plug with a nipple for the hose. pull this out and make sure the end isn't plugged.

Another note. I don't know if this is still available but you used to be able to give Mercedes your key code when ordering a cap and when you would receive it, It would have 1 key with it and it matching your key code. I think it was an extra $80.00 charge. Worth a call or 2.
Tyler

114015 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 05, 2016, 02:26:34 »

Quote

I went out for a long drive the the other day. When I got home I saw that the fuel cap was missing.

Mike,

Have you tried to return your whole trip back .... in order to find the fuel cap somewhere in the gutter or so?
You wouldn't be the only one who tried so in the past - and found his valuable gas cap back !

Good luck!

Achim

Achim

Paul & Dolly · « **Reply #19 on:** March 05, 2016, 09:36:52 »

Quite a few expensive caps have been lost in the past, as they were not fully locked on, although they appeared to be secure.

The gasket can dry out, and make it difficult to turn and lock the key properly, so it is worth while lubricating the gasket regularly, (Vaseline) then the system operates better.

Paul

Mike K · « **Reply #20 on:** March 06, 2016, 08:27:49 »

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I retraced my route but couldn't find the cap.
I'm going to make an attempt at locating the blockage in the venting system, starting from the grommet & lines under the car at L rear (see pic below) and then replacing the narrow gauge hardened plastic lines running from the fuel filler neck to the venting tank.
Question, I suppose that I can replace these with narrow gauge reinforced rubber fuel line?

When I bought the car 3 years ago I had to replace the fuel tank, fuel pump, sender unit, fuel lines etc. they were all completely fouled and trashed with years of debris and rust (pics below). I never tackled the venting tank and lines and am certain now that therein lies the problem....

Thanks & best,

Mike

Paul & Dolly · « **Reply #21 on:** March 06, 2016, 09:19:02 »

Hi Mike

It sound like you are en route to a solution,

You may find this article interesting wrt Fuel Hose and Clips

http://www.volksbolts.com/faq/fuelhose.htm

Good luck

Paul

Mike K · « **Reply #22 on:** March 08, 2016, 07:43:06 »

Thanks for the link Paul, a very informative article.

Best,

Mike

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Author Topic: Original Fuel Cap Lost (Read 11766 times)

Kayvan

Kayvan

Kayvan