Author Topic: Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On  (Read 4419 times)

vande17941

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Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On
« on: March 23, 2016, 05:51:38 »
Bought a relined set of shoes  from Buds because original lining seperated from original shoe. Car has 55,000 original miles on it. I machined the drums a tiny bit just to make sure they are round.

The shoe thickness as received is 10.7mm including the backing plate.

I did the following.
1. Loosened parking brake cable completely.
2. Loosened cam adjusters completely.
3. Opened bleeder valve on cylinder.

I can get the drum on about 1/3 of the way in and that's it!  Am I missing something? Or is it the fact that Buds made the shoes too thick? Would .7 millimeters make that big of a difference?

Ideas?
'66 USA (1967 model Year) 230sl, 4-speed Manual, Driven Like a Real Car! Set up with KYB Stiffer Shocks, and Motor Mounts w Urethane Inserts Underneath, 3-point Belts, Headrests Installed 🚗

1986 560sl Cabernet & Palomino (not recommended)

2001 SLK320 Sport AMG Silver & Black

WRe

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Re: Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2016, 07:27:21 »
Hi,
the brake pads are 5 - 6 mm without plate .
Did you check the excenter spring, sometimes it's blocked and the cam does not move back?
...WRe

vande17941

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Re: Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2016, 14:21:59 »
The cams moved great and the shoes moved right in...still can't get the drum on. Need to know if a total thickness of 10.7 millimeters including the backing shoe is too much to get the drum on
'66 USA (1967 model Year) 230sl, 4-speed Manual, Driven Like a Real Car! Set up with KYB Stiffer Shocks, and Motor Mounts w Urethane Inserts Underneath, 3-point Belts, Headrests Installed 🚗

1986 560sl Cabernet & Palomino (not recommended)

2001 SLK320 Sport AMG Silver & Black

WRe

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Re: Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 14:35:52 »
Hi,
if you look at the attached pictures from SLS I would assume that the pads (6mm) are double of the backplate which means that both together is less than10mm. This thread says 10mm in total:  www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=12474.msg89714#msg89714.
...WRe
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 14:41:26 by WRe »

vande17941

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Re: Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2016, 15:35:32 »
These are NOT parking brakes. They are shoes from a 230sl. I'm guessing 10mm max, also.

But a guess isn't an answer. Hoping someone knows.
'66 USA (1967 model Year) 230sl, 4-speed Manual, Driven Like a Real Car! Set up with KYB Stiffer Shocks, and Motor Mounts w Urethane Inserts Underneath, 3-point Belts, Headrests Installed 🚗

1986 560sl Cabernet & Palomino (not recommended)

2001 SLK320 Sport AMG Silver & Black

mmizesko

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Re: Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2016, 15:42:26 »
Fats Waller would say " Yo Feats too big"

Sorry, Had to do it.

Mike
1970 280SL 291H Dark Olive

vande17941

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Re: Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2016, 15:47:24 »
HA HA! I'm assuming, based on the thread references earlier, that the Benz Dr's answer of 10mm is correct.....he is ALWAYS correct.

So, the fact that he shoes I have are almost a full mm too thick, explains my bloody knuckles, cursing, and screaming.
'66 USA (1967 model Year) 230sl, 4-speed Manual, Driven Like a Real Car! Set up with KYB Stiffer Shocks, and Motor Mounts w Urethane Inserts Underneath, 3-point Belts, Headrests Installed 🚗

1986 560sl Cabernet & Palomino (not recommended)

2001 SLK320 Sport AMG Silver & Black

WRe

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Re: Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2016, 20:12:50 »
Hi,
I thought we speak about drum brakes of your 230SL, why now parking brakes?
...WRe

Tomnistuff

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Re: Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2016, 22:44:55 »
I ran into this same problem on my 230SL rear brakes.  I had the shoes relined and even sent them the dimensioned drawing on page 42-22/1 of the BBB.  They still came back too thick.  I couldn't find a thickness which included the shoe flange, because it is not constant.  It is tapered thicker as it gets closer to the center rib.  Since it's cast, I assume that that taper is the draft angle of the casting.  The lining is supposed to be 6 mm thick.  Mine was about 7 mm and I had no choice but to spend several days block sanding the lining while repeatedly fitting the hub.  Fortunately, every place where the hub was tight, it left a darker polished spot on the freshly sanded lining.  After about three days of sanding, fitting and hand spinning the hub, I got it to fit and spin without leaving any marks on the lining.

My wife is right, as usual.  Restoring a 50 year old car (even a Mercedes) is the work of a cloistered monk, the kind of person who copied and illustrated Bibles by hand a few hundred years ago.

Take a look at BBB page 42-22/1, "Replacement and Resurfacing of Brake Linings".

Tom Kizer
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

ja17

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Re: Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2016, 04:43:36 »
You might want to try loosening the emergency brake adjuster to allow the shoes to retract further. On a 230SL, unlike the 250s and 280s, The main rear shoes are also the parking brake shoes.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

Shvegel

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Re: Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2016, 11:56:23 »
If you are positive that the shoes are fully retracted find a shop that rebuilds truck clutches or the oldest crustiest auto parts store(or even the oldest crustiest mechanic) you know and see if they "arc" brake shoes.  a lot of auto parts stores in the olden time days used to actually rebuild their own brake shoes by riveting new linings in then they would grind down the asbestos shoe to the proper size on an arcing grinder.  Good times!  The good news is your drums still have enough material on them to make this an issue. 

PS: You will notice I have substituted the phrase "In the olden time days" for the more current phrase "Back in the day."  When I taught mechanics for BMW's S.T.E.P. program invariably one of my sub 20 year old charges would use the phrase "Back in the day."  My response "Back in the day is anything that happened 25 years ago or more.  You guys have no back in the day."
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 13:59:39 by Shvegel »

450sl

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Re: Help: New Shoes..Can't Get Drums Back On
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2016, 14:12:21 »
I have used a Lathe to work on brakeshoes of all sorts.