Poll ... How do you feel about Price Increases of our cars?

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Our German Friends at Pagodetreff conducted a poll some time ago on the subject of

Price increases seen over the past few years on the Pagoda / Pagode around the world.

Concerns and discussions around issues such as; investments, car security [increased risk of theft], overnight parking on trips, spare part price increases, restoration costs to name a few were discussed.

How do you feel about, what are your general thoughts on the subject and why,

You feel Very Good about it

You feel Good about it.

You don't really care about it.

You feel Not so Good about it.

You are very concerned about it.

[Cees Klumper]

Interesting question. Hopefully you will share with us the outcome of the Pagodentreff poll at some point?

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Hello Cees,

I will certainly do this. The Pagodetreff Poll has been closed now, however, the discussion is still ongoing. I will post here in a month or so a screen shot of there Poll results in numbers and percentage as well a general summary as to what was discussed.

Members at the Pagodetreff leave some comments as to why they have voted the way they did. Here on our site some 25 indeviduals have voted no one left any comments, except yourself

Cheers,

Dieter

[Tyler S]

I think part of the increase has to do with some of the parts becoming NLA in the last 5-10 years. IE headlight doors, fuel pumps, red taillights, etc. Thus driving up value which in turn goes right back to driving up parts costs.
As far as the poll, I think the few that dont care are the ones who never plan on selling their car  . Which reminds me, everyone should be keeping on top of valuation and reviewing their insurance coverage yearly at minimum. Soccer moms on cell phones are always a stones throw away. As well as that thief that follows you home.

[Jowe]

Well, here is my comment. I voted Very good because it is due to the fact that I can justify to my wife when i go down to the garage and tinker on the car, that this is a much better money placement than having the money on the bank (in Sweden we have negative base interest rate for the moment). To that she can't argue against.... 

[Pinder]

I use the same reason to validate the purchase of the cars I have been working on. She thinks Im going to sell sometime soon so she can park  her car in the garage. I havent told her the im planning on keeping them for a long time.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

I voted i don't really care about it I voted this way since in deed I am planning to keep her for ever and plan to pass her on to my daughter when the time comes. In the meantime I will enjoy the car as much as I can. I did not seek and purchase her to keep her hidden away in my garage.

Since May 2013 my car has seen nearly 8,000 road miles (my speedo is in miles) that is almost twice as much what the last owner has driven her in the period of 1992 to 2013 when I found her in a climate controlled garage of a local millionaire. It was his wife's car she devorced him (I can only assume she did this since his first love must have been cars when I found my car he had 18 American cars from the 50s and 60s in the same custom build garage with my now Pagoda).

As to value, I paid for what was considered a price range of a no 2 to 3 car in 2013 (as what was asked on on my research in 2013) that apparently has now increased twofold in price. Dan the (Benz Dr) worked on her a few times adjusting the linkage oil changes etc. Dan and others that have seen my car in Toronto, Williamsnurg and last September at PUB can confirm that the condition of my car is properly a numer 3 in the top range if not a low range no 2.

My plan in the not too distant future might be to ship her to Europe have her checked over and certifyed for European roads (this may include a complete engine bay [motor and trany removed refurbished and reinstalled] then enjoy her 6 months of the year in Europe. I might just do that on her 50 year birthday We shall see or I may make that trip along Route 66 on her birthday year (done that trip in 2011 with a 2009 Z4 3.5 is it was great fun).

I read that theft on our cars since last year in Europe has doubled ... I think we all know best how to protect our cars, I don't consider this to be an issue.

[Peter van Es]

I voted that I don't really feel good about it.

I like my Pagoda. I like rallies, I like spirited driving. But I need to do some serious body work soon. However, everyone I consult tells me to not do a half job. But a full job is expensive because the prices are rising. Parts are also expensive.

If I do a full restoration, the car will be too valuable to rally. In fact, it will be almost to valuable for normal day driving. Over the last 15 years of ownership, I never really worried about where I parked it. Or if it would rain or not. So I had many fun outings, drove long distances. That, in my view, is the whole point of ownership.

As these cars are approaching ludicrous prices, that is going to disappear. No more fun. I might as well sell it in it's current state and buy a Lancia Fulvia or Alfa Romeo.

Peter

[Pinder]

Peter from the picture your car does not look like it needs any major bodywork.  If there are any rust issues I think those should be addressed to preserve the steel, but if its just a few door dings there is nothing wrong with keeping it unmolested. I can imagine a full restoration with all paint down to bare metal to be very expensive. Like you said, what you would then end up with is a car you cant take anywhere for fear of a road chip or someone scratching it.

[Benz Dr.]

This the tail wagging the dog. Only long term ownership has a few people smiling these days.........

 A few years ago, I warned that the prices of parts would rise in a dramatic fashion once the Classic Centers were fully operational. Now that's a reality and the prices for parts are several times more than only a year or two ago.  I've also been told that the CC is the most profitable division that MB owns. It's kind of difficult not to believe these things.

 Although Pagoda parts were always pricey, now they're going the same route as 190 and 300 Sl's and the price increases don't even make sense. It's not the cost of labor to restore one of these cars, it's the cost of parts and not much else.

So, if you bought within the last five years and you're thinking about selling, you might be in the cat bird seat. If you are thinking about buying or starting a full restoration, you are looking at 3 or 4 times more outlay for the same amount of work to get your car from point A to point B.

 I ask everyone, is this really a good thing for the hobby?   

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

This the tail wagging the dog. Only long term ownership has a few people smiling these days..........

 I ask everyone, is this really a good thing for the hobby?

Hi Dan,

I think the answer to your question is in the percentage of the Poll. Being over 70% between votes cast Very Good to Good I think speaks for itself. Most members that own a Pagoda have worked hard for it and are at a stage in there lives to be able to afford it, may it ba as a hobby or pure pleasure. Yes some will sell there cars for reasons you pointed out, however, others will purchase the car that are at a stage were they can afford it.

Soon I will (as I promised Cees), summarize the results of the Pagodetreff results on this subject along with a brief outline of some of the points and concerns that have been tabled there as a result of there Pool. So needless to say you will be fixing Pagodas in your shop for some time yet, unless some of the local Pagodas find there way back to Europe or you decide to give up fixing them.

Dieter

[Benz Dr.]

I bet more than 70% of western nations were also in favor of invading a certain middle eastern country a few years ago. They weren't right about that either. 

 However, if 70% of 113 owners want to spend more money to get to the same distance down the road, who am I to stop them..........

[cabrioletturbo]

Voting Very Good is because it helps us justify the prices we paid for the cars, repairs, maintenance, etc.
Rising prices make that hole in the pocket a little bit smaller....

Driving one and enjoying the Pagoda view - priceless...

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Igor, you got that right or as they say hit the nail on the head

Dieter

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

As promised here is the result from the Poll (Umfrage) from our friends at Pagodetreff (I will also share our results and comments with our friends at Pagodatreff).

39 posts were made on the subject and 58 individuals cast there vote to the date of my post here (some were replies to other posts). In general the comments made were as follows;-

7 - Had concerns on theft due to increasing prices.
6 - Expressed comments around Investment.
3 - Comments were made expecting prices to fall again in future years to come.
2 - Expressed commens that higher prices lead to ever higher insurance.
2 - Mentioned high cost of parts and repairs (one mentioned that a friend paid 17K Euro for a complete motor repair).
1 - Expressed that the top two (54% Sehr Gut & Gut) would soon sell there Pagode.
1 - Expressed that prices have steadaly gone up over the past 30 years.
1 - Expressed that prices ask for are often too high around 20% to high.

Love of the hobby was also mentioned as was that not everyone can work on there old-timer themselves.

[Cees Klumper]

Interesting to see such a marked difference in perceptions: in our group, 70% are positive while in Germany only 50% feel the price increases are a good thing.

[66andBlue]

Cees,
"inborn" fear of inflation still rules the German psyche.

[Brian in NL]

I have mixed feelings about the price rise. Certainly it's good for those of us who bought a long time ago and did any major restoration work before parts prices shot up. But I also fear that it will increasingly mean more and more of our cars will become trailer queens. That would be a shame. My 230SL has been fully restored; when I got my insurance appraisal updated recently, I was a bit shocked at how much its value had increased. The insurance increase wasn't onerous, but I do find myself thinking twice when I take the car out for a drive. I am less likely to leave it where it is out of my sight. I try to avoid heavy traffic areas. I just think more about "protecting" it than I ever used to.  When I go out in my MGB, those kinds of thoughts never cross my mind.

[MikeL43]

I never got in on the voting so perhaps should keep my mouth shut but that's no fun so here's my 2 cents worth:
I'm happy with the price increase for my 250.  Where can you get an investment that you can have fun with and be reasonably sure it will increase in value?  I have money invested in various places that give me a piece of paper and not much of a return.  I can go out in the garage and tinker with this investment, take it for a drive, turn on some oldies and have a lot of fun.  I am a lot more certain that when I or my heirs decide to sell the car they will get a better return on it than most other investments.   

[john.mancini]

I too have mixed feelings about W113 prices. I used to buy, restore and sell classic cars as a hobby. Buying good, solid 113's…….well, those days are over.
Prices are too high and parts prices are crazy. I rarely drive my low mileage 280SL for fear that a texter might drive by. What's interesting is that American classic car prices, especially Corvettes, have fallen. I own a 62 original fuel injected, Top Flight Corvette. Corvette prices have dropped dramatically during the same time that European car prices have risen. That's the market. I wish I had held on to my SL's.

[Benz Dr.]

Too many cars chasing too few dollars. Every month, thousands of old cars pour onto the market. Some are good cars but a lot of them are fixed up turds. I see guys '' restoring '' stuff that has a potential of under 20K and wonder why any of them would do it.

 As for our car cars, the price of parts is what's driving this market. And, the very high prices on those parts will always be in front of you and the value of your car. If your car is finished, or it's a solid driver, you won't need much very often so you really won't notice the drastic price increases. I ask you; who is really cashing in on the old car market? Owners or MB?

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

Dan, that would be as we all know MB

I learned a long time ago that spare parts are the bread and butter of any manufacturer.

Dieter

[simonarn]

I dont have any feelings about it as I will never sell my Pagoda and so relevant value is about as pointless as house price increase discussions. If you sell it you still have to pay that price to replace it

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

I guess this tops them all ... has anyone ever seen a higher asking price then this? And for a condition 2 LOL

Dieter

PS. This was as posted on Facebook ... offerd by MotorWorld Classics Berlin, Germany


Edit; PS added

[Benz Dr.]

Like I said before.............

 As soon as you see the word  '' Classics '' you should start to worry...........