5-speed transmission

[Klaus]

In a posting dated August 15, 2004 about the ZF 5-speed transmission it is mentioned that at least one W113 owner, Hauser, has installed a later (R107) Getrag 5-speed, and the BenzDr. seconded it as a good choice.

The Mercedes-Benz Classic Center presently has a special campaign, until January 31, 2005, where they sell remanufactured  ("Tauschgetriebe") Getrag manual 5-speed transmissions at reduced price. The normal price is EUR 1864.-, the reduced price is EUR 1095.-.
The part no. for the Getrag would be A 123 260 23 01 80.
Any questions, e-mail klaus.rau@daimlerchrysler.com

Klaus
1969 280 SL

[Cees Klumper]

Wow - that seems like an excellent deal, the 5-speed has been generally described as 'the holy grail'!

Besides the transmission itself, what sort of other modifications would be required to the driveline ?

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Douglas]

Cees, the Holy Grail is the ZF, not the Getrag.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[Cees Klumper]

Hi Doug - I know that the ZF is different from the Getrag, but in my opinion it's like with other parts Mercedes sells: if a part has superseeded another one in terms of specifications, design etc while performing the same function, Mercedes deems the new part to be "original". So if Mercedes sells the Getrag 5-speed as fit for the W113, I would consider that to be as original as the ZF. It's probably even better in terms of design etc., so I would rather have the Getrag than the ZF. I don't know that much about the ZF, but I recall reading that it's rather basic and that getting parts for it may be very difficult.
I think people consider the 5-speed to be very desirable because of its function combined with its rarity (hence the term "holy grail"), and not because of which Mercedes supplier manufactured it.

Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

[Douglas]

I don't think the Getrag model in question is difficult to find. If I'm not mistaken, it was used on BMWs throughout the 80s.

I know Hauser is delighted with his, so I'm sure it's a great set-up. I'd love to hear more about what's involved in making it work in a Pagoda.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[bluedipper]

1095 EURO is about $1400 US.  thats not bad for a fully installed 5 speed.  I yearn for a 5 speed with the overdrive high gear every time I take my car on a road trip that involves long miles on the freeway.  Where is this being done?  Anywhere near San Francisco?

Chuck

[hauser]

Paul Kaminski did all the mechanical work and pretty much put this whole car together.  He even rebuilt the speedometer himself along with a new wire harness.  He said it was a pain in the ass fitting the Getrag on this car.  Not an easy venture that's for sure!  

I don't know when I'll have a chance but I'll try to post a pic or two of the belly of this beast next time I have it on a lift.

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[ja17]

Hello,
Are these transmissions the early configuration  top shift single linkage rod or the later side shifter three linkage rod varieties?

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio

[Klaus]

Of course the price is only for the part, without installation, ex-Germany. So it may be more interesting, if at all, for our members in Europe.
MB is selling it for the 107.042 (280 SL) and the 126.021,022,023 (280 S, SE, SEL).
They have also a version, part no. A 123 260 21 01 80, for the 4-cylinder W123 models 230 E, 200, 230 CE, 200 T, 230 T (123.200, .220, .223, .243, .280, .283).
Officially they are not saying that it is suitable for the W113, but we know it has been done.
Douglas, do you know what BMW is charging for a Getrag 5-speed?
Joe, their flyer, Classic Information 09/2004, does not say which configuration it is; you may know from the above models which one it is. Otherwise you would have to e-mail them or Tel. (49) 711 17 83559.

Klaus
1969 280 SL

[Benz Dr.]

The trans in hauser's car is really shoe horned into the limited space available. They had to cut a hole in the tunnel and then cover it with a cup shaped patch just to make it fit. I believe the case is made out of aluminum so it would be a bit lighter than a ZF.

Shifting was very crisp in the getrag but then it's probably 25 years newer than my ZF box. It seemed to shift well when cold - something a ZF can't do until fully warmed. If my trans had all new syncros it would probably shift better as it will grind a bit down shifting into 3rd gear if done too quickly. A lot of trans seem to do this in 3rd gear if worn.

The ZF is the holly grail - make NO mistake about that. At 850 cars ( 113 ) and about 1,400 in total, it's a very rare option. Parts are available but very exspensive. It's by no means a basic trans. The MB box is basic by comparison.

Daniel G Caron

[Douglas]

Hauser, was your car originally an automatic or was it always a stick? I ask because I'm curious about the conversion from auto to stick vs. 4-spd to 5-spd. What does the VIN indicate?

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[hauser]

My car was originally a 4 speed vin 113044-10-010663.

1969 280sl 5 spd        1999 ML320          Gainesville,Fl.

[sammyr]

WHAT MODEL IS THE GETRAG THAT WILL FIT IN THE 69 280SL? IS IT A GETRAG 265?

1969 MERCEDES 280SL
WHITE ON BLACK/ BLACK HARD TOP

[113gray]

The Benz Dr. (Dan Caron) says 5 speed ZF parts "are available but very expensive". Dan, where does one go & to whom for parts & service for these units? I understand that reverse is the usual first presentation of trouble & that parts are basically unavailable either here or from Germany. So, your remark offers some hope possibly. Can you expand on them?   -JP-'66 230SL 5 spd ZF

[George Des]

JP,

I've got a 5 speed ZF on my Euro 230SL (1967) purchased in Italy in 1976. My ZF was rebuilt in Mannheim Germany while I was stationed in Kaiserlautern in 1983 but I too have asked about parts availability for the ZF. Here's what I have found out. Micahel Eagan who lives nearby in Arlington did extensive research on this when he went about putting a ZF into his own 280SL. Looks like all of the parts were bought up by a gentleman by the name of Hans Bucher in Mannheim. He has a website. I have inquired of him on a number of parts I was interested in purchasing including a rear cover plate. All of the parts I was looking for were no longer available. I asked for a list of what is available but did not get a response so I'm not sure what he actually has anymore. There is also another company in Portland Oregon--do a seach on MIE and Maserati and you should be able to find it-- that supplies parts for the Maserati--some Maserati's used a ZF S5-20 but the shift linkage and rear cover plate are not the same as the unit used on the Pagodas--there may also be additional differences. It sounds like he may have some of the internals--not sure if these would be new or itmes taken from salvaged units but if you need something I would give them a call. I was able to get a rear cover gasket--no big deal, I'm sure I could have fabricated this from gasket material if I had to. Fortunatetly I was able to make an on car repair of my rear cover plate using some JB Weld and fiberglass cloth to stitch the broken ear on the speedometer connection fitting--it works and does not leak so I'm happy with it! Wish I had better news on where to get these rare parts.


George Des

[George Des]

Jp and other ZF 5 Speeders,

I forgot to mention in my last post that many parts-primarily the seals, bearings, nuts bolts, studs and washers-- in the S5-20 are standard metric or DIN items. For example, the two bearings on the main and input shaft are 6307N with snap rings--SKF, FAG and several other bearing suppliers can provide these. The two bearings on the countershaft are tapered roller bearings (LM67048). The mating piece to this is LM67010. These bearings are very common--used both in aircraft landing gear and boat trailer hubs. FAG, SKF and Timken can provide these. The needle roller bearings used on the input shaft (K26X44X18)and under several of the main gears(Number of bearing under each varies) are also readily available through the bearing suppliers. Seals for the shafts are pretty much standard items and some of the seals from the MB box are the same. MIE as I said earlier can provide some gaskets. Those that are unavailable can be cut easily enough from gasket material. Where we run into problems in finding parts is with the S5-20 unique items. Obviously this includes any of the housing items like the rear cover plate and the top shifter mechanism. I have not done any cross checking on the gears or synchros, but know from talking to Michael Egan that he had major problems in locating a servicable, replacement input shaft. As I recall he had a local machine shop build his up and then had it remachined back to spec. Michael wrote an excellent article on his quest to install a ZF in his 280SL. Incidentally, I spoke to Gernold recently and he mentioned that most of the 5 speed ZF's that he has seen originated out of Italy. He said 5 speeds were very popular items with the Italians who were accustomed to buying Alfa Romeo 5 speeds. Hope this additonal info helps


George Des

[George Des]

Website for Franz (not Hans) Bucher for the ZF parts in Germany is

http://www.franzbucher.de/

[113gray]

WOW! Thanks George. Best amount of info I've gotten. My unit seems fine now, but I enjoy it very much & worry something will happen. I have switched to synthetic ATF (Mobile) as about the only practical preventative available along w/ frequent changes. Thanks again.   -JP- 230SL 5 spd ZF (Italian)

[n/a]

Hello all,
I have read in the book "Original MB SL" by L. Meredith in the 113 chapter "transmission" that in may 69 the ZF box was dropped and replaced by a 5 speed Mercedes box, code G 76/27-5.
Anyone knows this box? Is there a relation with the Getrag?
On which other MB model(s) can we find this box?
Is it possible to retro-fit one on our cars?
Thanks for all informations.

alain

[Benz Dr.]

My car was also sold in Itally so it makes sense that most of them went there in the first place.

Daniel G Caron

[George Davis]

Alain,

according to my BBB, the G76/27-5 was fitted to the 280 S/8, 280 SE/8, 280 SEL/8 and 300 SEL/8 starting in May 1969.  It appears to have the shift linkage on the side, unlike the top-shift boxes fitted to the Pagodas.  Clutch slave cylinder is on the other side.

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

[n/a]

Georges, thanks for the info.
According to Meredith this box was also fitted to the Pagoda. Do you know if it is possible (difficult) to retro-fit one on a 4-speed car?

alain

[hauser]

My former 250sl ZF5 was also for the Italian market.

1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.

[Douglas]

Alain,

To swap from a 4-speed manual transmission to a ZF 5-spd, you will need a few other parts in addition to the transmission, including:

front driveshaft (113-410-15-01)
shift tube (113-260-06-82)
shift rod (2 required) (113-260-10-89)
rear bracket (113-242-01-01)
shift knob (111-268-10-42)

Apparently, you can either shorten the driveshaft from your 4-spd transmission or use a driveshaft from an automatic Pagoda.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

[Raymond]

There's a guy on the Pagoda113 site who says he just fitted a late model Mustang 5 speed in his car.  He posted on Jan 3 and hasn't offered any more information.  Anyone ever hear of this before?

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe