Early 250 SL cylinder head vs later

[cfm65@me.com]

Hi Guys,
Does anyone know if the later 250 SL cylinder head will fit the early block? The reason for my question: I am in the EU now and could easily pick up a new cam for my early 250 SL. Unfortunately I forgot to check which cam/cylinder head I have and I dont want to take a chance if there is any possibility that my early engine might have a later cyl head and cam.
Regards
Chris
Cape Town

[Tyler S]

The early and late 250 cyl heads are all the same. The difference is in the 4 camshaft tower/bearings. The standard bearings for the 250 and 280 camshaft are all the same. The performance camshaft requires different sized bearings to be paired with it. Either way when replacing the camshaft you should replace the bearings as well.

[cfm65@me.com]

TKS Tyler,
You refer to 'performance cam'. I was under the impression that the 250S, 250SE and SL cams are the same.
You input is much appreciated.
Regards
Chris

[ja17]

The 250 SE/SL injected head will fit the 230SL injected engines and all 250SL or SE injected engines. It is considered an upgrade on the 230SL engine since the valves are bigger. You will find that the head gaskets are the same on these engines.

[Tyler S]

You refer to 'performance cam'. I was under the impression that the 250S, 250SE and SL cams are the same.

Chris, Not the same. There are variants of camshafts used between engines, north american, euro spec, sedan etc. There is a "higher performance" cam (86) that was used in euro spec 250 models as well as north american pre-emissions date. Your car will currently have this (86) or a milder (05). You wont know without looking at the back side of your camshaft. If in doubt just go with the 86. The 86 is the camshaft I just replaced in my 250sl (vin 3400ish). The hottest (highest performance) cam of them all was an (02) and requires different size bearings. Don't know if those are still available. Any changes will require you to adjust or shim your injection pump to compensate but no biggie.  See Joe's breakdown of the different part numbers and explanation at thread link below.
http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=11908.msg80320#msg80320

[cfm65@me.com]

TKS Tyler,
Much appreciated. Mine is a early EU model, nr252.  Tks I'll start looking for a 86 and also try having a look on the back when I get home.
Regards
Chris

[Tyler S]

Being a very early "252" I would definitely check. On vary rare occasions on very early production models, things get carried over.

[cfm65@me.com]

TKS again Tyler,
I read Joe's post regarding the 250SL cams and your advice re checking.  Would it make any difference if mine had a 'carry over' cam and I fitted a 86? It seems as if most of these cams are NLA and that there are still some 86 ones available with some vendors.
As I mentioned, I am in the EU and could save alot if I got one now and took it with me in stead of ordering one from South Africa. Is it worth taking a chance?
Input from any other members as well, would be much appreciated.
Regards
Chris

[Tyler S]

The 86 will will work just fine and if any difference you will get a small performance increase. You should also pick up a bearing set as well. Make sure its a 4 piece set. These are line bored as a set. 4 months ago when I bought my cam there were 133 left in germany at MB's warehouse. Any dealer can get it for you. The bearings are availabe through vendors but may actually be less expensive at the dealer.
 Brgs part# 1305860005
86 cam part# 1800518601

[cfm65@me.com]

Tks Tyler,
Much appreciated.
Have a great weekend.
Regards
Chris

[cfm65@me.com]

Hi Tyler,
I had a look and I have a 1800518601 cam in my 250SL.
TKS for your assistance.
Regards
Chris

[capcgn]

The camshaft ,Bearingsare  and head are  avaleible at Mercedes :

NOCKENWELLE    A1800518601    469,70 €    558,94 €

LAGERSATZ    A1305860005    450,00 €    535,50 €    

ZYLINDERKOPF    A1290101620    2.852,89 €    3.394,94 €

Prices without and with VAT

[Benz Dr.]

I used an early 230SL cam on my engine. It was so long ago I can't remember the code number but I chose it based upon it being similar to euro 280SL cam timing.

[troctime]

Hi,

I just took the engine out of the car (230SL 1966), my first cylinder was out

I'm working on the motor with a company, close to me, specialised in engine rebuilding.

I had a hole in the first piston (probably a ring broke), standard quote 82mm.

The engine will be rebored at the 1st repair quote 82.5mm. We ordered 6 new complete piston to a French piston specialist.
I had to go that way because 230 piston are not easy to find and the only one I found where low pression.
I preffer to put the same form of piston I had.

For the cylinder head :
I bought a second hand head from a 250SE hopping it could be usefull.
I hoped I could use the 250'head because it looks in better shape and I heard it is compatible and I heard it is a bit better (bigger inlet valves).

We dismanteled both heads and find out they both had a lot of play in the valve guides 

So I will probably stay with my original 230'head

But the camshaft on the 230'head is used on 2 cylinders and the camshaft on the 250'head is a lot better.

If I can, I will probably use it.

We put both cam close and mesued , they are the same !

My 230'cam is numbered 180.051.7801 ?
The 250''cam is marqued 180.051.8601 (that is a normal ref for it as I read)

Does any one have information about compatibilities of camshaft 230/250
Is the 180.051.7801 a normal ref for a 230'camshaft

I just added some pictures to show it

Thanks for you knowlege,

Olivier

[Tyler S]

Oliver, from your photos it looks as if there is a lot of pitting on cyl #1 piston.
This was most likely caused by a blown head gasket or severe detonation. The original camshaft also has evidence of the engine being overheated. The center cam journals are scored. This happens when the engine overheats and the center area of the head warps. It puts upward pressure on the center bearings and wipes them out. I believe the difference between the 8601 and the 7801 camshaft is the lift duration.

[troctime]

Do you think I can use the 8601 camshaft on my 230 head ?

And where could the overheat come from ?

Thanks

[114015]

Olivier,

My 230'cam is numbered 180.051.7801 ?

Sure about the "7801"?   
Your car (and mine  ) should have come with the 180 051 7601 not the 7801.
Later replaced by the 180 051 84 01 (with the new bearing set).

Currently NLA


Achim

[troctime]

Dis you Look at the pictures ?
It Is not easy to read 7601 on it, it seems to be 7801.

Do you think I can use the 8601 in my car ?

[troctime]

I think ( despite the pictures where you read 78 ) that :
I do have the original camshaft 7601 ( stamped on the side 84 )
The camshaft from my 250se head is a 8601 ( stamped 86 )

If I buy a new one by MB , I think 180 051 8401 will It be with the same 'hot' profile as the original 7601 that was in place ( used now ) ?

Does someone have info ?

Thanks