Stuck soft top, again

[69280sl]

This is the second time. The tech manual instructions absolutely do not work for me. The last time this happened I ended up, after many weeks,  taking the top, frame and all, off the car and driving the top and car to one of the independent shops for reinstallation.

When my "L" shaped brackets are levered up, they will snap into an upper "locked" position. Is the pushing back on the frame supposed to be done before the bracket so locks? ie while it is somewhere between its lower most and upper most position? Tried that too, without success.

I am open to any and all suggestions.

Gus

[cfm65@me.com]

Gus,
Yes, the rear bar must be lifted up vertically and locked in the upright position before the front locks are released. The leading edge of the top must be raised rather than pushed back. Once raised, the top will start folding naturally and collapse into the well. To erect the top, try raising the whole contraption to the vertical before extending the leading edge. Insert the front locks and close the cover('speed brake') before breaking the up locks and folding the rear window down in order to insert the rear centre lock. Once in the open position, release the front locks in order to engage the rear lock fully. Then only secure the front locks.  Adjust the up locks to hold the rear bar securely if necessary.
Regards
Chris

[Peter van Es]

I've only had this happen once (after my episode I take extreme care never to drop the rear bow). My recollection is not perfect. We levered the L shapes brackets only a little bit, to allow the frame to be pushed in. That required a large amount of force to push it past the L-shaped brackets.

When we did this, the front part of the roof obviously did not reach the windscreen.

With (at least) two people you should be able to do this. Keep trying. Even if you spend an hour messing about, that's less time than removing and refitting the soft top.

Peter

[69280sl]

Thanks for the replies, both here and by email.

Maybe I'm laboring under a misinterpertation. When the tech manual; says "push hard on the frame at 2", are we pushing toward the rear of the car, or toward the front? One of the repies I got leads me to believe that that person pushes toward the front. I have been doing the opposite.

Gus

[cfm65@me.com]

Yes Gus,
You need to lift the rear bow up and then push forward in order to lock onto the main frame before releasing the front locks above the windscreen.
Regards
Chris

[69280sl]

I have not done a good job of describing the problem. I hope this picture makes things clear.

The bottom, rear of the top is too far into the well.
The top is almost but not quite deployed.
No movement is possible; the top wont open further. The top won't close further, the back cant be pulled out of the well.

Back to my last question, Where the tech manual says to "push on the frame at 2"(the frame at the side window opening) , is this push toward the rear of the car? It is what I have been doing, but an email advises pulling toward the front.

Thanks, all advice gratefully accepted.

Gus

[TheEngineer]

Inspect the shoulder bolts around which the frame members rotate. If they are worn or have backed out - repair

[cfm65@me.com]

Hi Gus,
You will need a helper or two. Dont force anything.
  Loosen the main bolts holding the frame on the car, don't remove them just loosen as much as you can and remove the large chrome hinge covers. Cover the top of the front screen chrome with an old blanket. Inspect and ensure that all the bolts holding the frame together are in position and secure, and that the large springs either side of the attacment points are unhooked.
Now, try lifting the rear bow as high as you can. I realise it is jammed in the well, but lifting it 4 to 6 inches in the well will give you a little lee way and relieve some of the tension on the L hinge and the rest of the frame.
The top should now be free of the locked( not up or down)position.
See if you can get this far and E mail me again.
Regards
Chris

[Paul & Dolly]

Hi Gus

I do not know your individual roof, but over the years I have found this to work for me.
Usual disclaimer, do not force anything, and you do this at your own risk !
If it is possible to fold the roof back into the well, then I would do this and start again.
If you cannot fold it all back into the well, then I cannot advise.

If this works for you let me know, and I will tell you a trick to hopefully help  prevent a repeat.

With the roof folded into the well, get some to help you.
Open both doors and windows & Stand to each side of the car.
Both reach in to the bottom of the well with one arm from the door openings.
With your other hands grab the front rail of the roof.

Both lift up the bottom bow from the bottom of the well, and at the same time pull up the front rail up together, DO NOT let the rear bow fall back into the well.

You should be able to straigten the side rails as the roof comes up.

Lock in the front rail, drop the hatch, drop down the rear bow.

Good luck

Paul

[Peter van Es]

Maybe I'm laboring under a misinterpertation. When the tech manual; says "push hard on the frame at 2", are we pushing toward the rear of the car, or toward the front? One of the repies I got leads me to believe that that person pushes toward the front. I have been doing the opposite.

Push the uprights of the frame towards the rear of the car (the uprights are almost in the correct position to allow the roof to be closed...).

When the roof is in this position (see photograph in Gus' post) you cannot get it to extend to front to the windscreen, you cannot lift the rear bow, and you cannot push the roof back into the well. It really is stuck. If you need to drive like this, drive really slowly.

You need to put pressure on the levers to allow the front frame to be moved towards the well, then apply pressure to the uprights of the frame.  You need to push the rest of the frame back into the well, snug against the rear bow which is stuck in the well. When the frame is all in, you can lift the entire roof out again. Then ensure the rear bow is tight against the B pillars of the frame before lowering the roof again.

I suggest re-reading the instructions again, they are actually quite precise. Also read the comment with the lightbulb for alternatives.

Peter

[waltklatt]

Gus,
Maybe the cables on the sides, above the windows are a little tight.
Check the tension when you try to straighten the front part out.
Also, are the frame uprights hitting the chrome caps between the doors and the top cover?

Err, you mentioned the back is too far in the well.
There is no movement in forward, you can only go backwards.  Bottom bow is locked into the top well, correct?
No access to the bolts holding the brackets to the body in this position.
Best would be to fold the front half close and at same time push backwards.
Possibly the top is stiff from non-use.
Walter

[Mechudo62]

I had no idea that not following a certain sequence for lowering the soft top resulted in a jammed top. I learned the hard way last Saturday at a Mercedes Benz Club Mexico show in which I had a nice front spot for my Pagoda.  A fellow clubmember offered to help me lower it, back bow first into the top compartment. First thing we noticed was the lowered top stack height was not right and we couldn't close the top compartment's metal lid.  We proceeded to raise the top from the front part and got it  3/4 of the way when it got totally stuck. We couldn't raise it or lower it, and after a few minutes my friend left me to my own fate with a stuck top...

Fortunately, another clubmember saw me struggling with my top; and him being mechanically inclined,  after tinkering with the hinges for about half an hour discovered the side latches and figured out a way to lower it again, assuming correctly we could lift it as an assembly afterwards. Sure enough, the top was working again and we lowered and raised it as per the soft top's manual several times with no problem. Think of it as an accordion, raising the back bow to a vertical position towards the front section first, and then lower the entire assembly into its well.  After this experience, I checked the Service Manual and found we had done almost exactly what the instructions say on getting the top unstuck. Do follow them, they work! I was lucky to get my car in show condition that day, and have learned an invaluable lesson and experience on lowering Pagoda soft tops.

[rbouch8828]

 I accidentally dropped the "Rear Bow" into the top compartment while I was raising the rest of the top and now it is STUCK. I tried to follow the instructions in the Manual (See below) but I do not understand the illustration. When I look at the bow and the other parts of the top, I do not see the "L" shaped bracket that is described and illustrated. Can someone please provide a better explanation of how to locate this "L"shaped bracket? Ideally, could you take a picture? I can see a couple of things that are L shaped, but the most likely one appears to be locked in place, but a pin holding a cog. I need help in understanding what the "L" shaped bracket is.

It requires two people, two large flat-head screwdrivers, and the following instructions. It doesn't appear obvious and probably quite a few people have been there, completely at a loss what to do, yet once you know it, it is not too hard. So here goes:

You cannot get the rear bow out of the compartment, unless it is snug against the rest of the soft top. The soft top needs to go completely down into the compartment in order to achieve this. In the current position of the roof, there are a couple of L-shaped brackets (red in the picture) that are preventing the soft top from folding.

1. The upside down L-shaped brackets on the outermost part of the hinge are spring-loaded. Use a sturdy flat-head screwdriver to lever the short part of the L upwards. The brackets on each side of the car need to be pulled back at the same time (hence the need for two people). I have found that slipping a 1/2" deep well socket over the L-shaped lever, with a 6" extension attached, makes levering the bracket fairly easy.

2. As you lever them upwards, push hard on each side of the frame up-right (at 2 in the picture) forcing the soft top past the spring loaded catch. You probably find you need to push much harder than you think. When the frame clicks past the bracket catch, you can drop the rest of the top down into its compartment.

3. Now reach under the cloth in the compartment, making sure that you lift the entire roof out by the rear bow. Now you can set-up your top properly again.

[rbouch8828]

I've read through this posting, but couldn't find an answer to my question. I also have a stuck top due to having accidentally dropped the rear bow into the storage compartment. However, after reading the instructions in the Manual, I can't understand which part is being referred to as the "L" shaped bracket. I see a couple of possible candidates and the most likely one appears to be locked by a pin holding a cog. Could someone add a photo to show the "L" shaped bracket more clearly. I can't figure out what it is and my top is stuck until I can figure it out!!!

[rbouch8828]

Brad Shore at Bud's Benz was able to point out that in the 1970 and 71 280SL's there is a lever on each side that you can use to release the locked soft top. By wedging a screw driver, or handle of a wrench into the lever on one side and opening it manually on the other, the top will then move back down and into the case.

I am attaching a photo showing the lever.

[Peter van Es]

Thanks. Added to the Tech Manual.

[sgp]

Hello,

You seem to know a lot about this issue. I just bought my first pagoda and have my soft top stuck like the other posts mention. I've tried lifting the L brackets and pushing the B pillars as the instructions mention but no luck. Do you have any videos that might help?

Cheers,

Seb
1967 250sl