Author Topic: Production changes to 230SL ??  (Read 6003 times)

Ben

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Production changes to 230SL ??
« on: November 05, 2004, 04:52:38 »
Just having a quick look at Frank Mallory's chronological listings of production changes and I wondered about the following items.....

1965, August:

Engine oil dipstick vent and filter omitted.

 
and....

1965, November

Intake air heating coil added ahead of throttle housing


Can anyone tell me why the dipstick vent was firstly used then omitted. What changes would this make to running, and the same for the second item re the heating coil. Was there an known issue here they were trying to correct ? Surely intake air is better if its cold ??

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

Malc

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Re: Production changes to 230SL ??
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2004, 08:46:25 »
Ben,

A guess at your first question:

I suspect tightening emissions laws. that the crankcase now "breaths" back into the inlet side of the engine rather than to the atmosphere.
My old MGA is vented to the atmosphere but the MGB, with basically the same engine breaths back into the engine. Most modern engines now are so sensitive to this that if you take the oil filler cap off the rocker cover the engine will stall.


In answer to your second question:
Basically you are correct the lower the intake temperature the better, but there are caveats to this in engine design.

I suspect the heating element turns on when the engine and or and air temperatures are very low. Although petrol is sprayed from the injectors if the temperature is low it will tend to pool and condense on the walls of the intake manifold.
In addition it is possible that the venturi effects can cause water vapour to fall out of the air and form ice.
THis will happen in some types of carburettors, usually fixed jet types more than SU types.
Most cars have some system for warming the air going into carbs, wether an automatic flap arrangement or a lever you twiddle for "winter" and "summer". All piston engine aircraft have either carb or manifold heaters to stop ice forming.

With no traditional choke on the injection system this is possibly the solution MB can up with, others, notably BMW with the mechanical injection system used an "overfueling" system with a water temperature adjusting valve in combination with a very crude cold start electric injector.

Once your engine is warm enough I suspect the heater will turn off

I am sure somebody will correct me if I have got this all wrong!  :)
Malc

Benz Dr.

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Re: Production changes to 230SL ??
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2004, 10:45:27 »
The vented dip stick has a tendancy to cause the dip stick below it to rust heavily. A lot of moisture is drawn in with the outside air and in cold weather you will see a lot of condensation. There can be a certain amount of blow by coming out on a worn engine which may have been a contributing factor at the time of the change.

The heating element is the water heated ring around the throttle housing. In cold weather the throttle can ice up and cause running problems. I've seen where the vent line can freeze up but this is more a case of short runs and then leaving the car sit for a few days and all the moisute will freeze.

Daniel G Caron
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

rwmastel

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Re: Production changes to 230SL ??
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2004, 15:50:18 »
quote:
Originally posted by Ben

1965, November

Intake air heating coil added ahead of throttle housing


That's odd.  My car, produced at the end of Sept., 1966, does not have this heating element around the throttle body.  I have noticed it in pictures and other cars I've looked at.  My engine number is correct per the Data Card.  Could mine have been swapped out for a non-heated throttle body for some reason?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

Douglas

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Re: Production changes to 230SL ??
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2004, 16:58:26 »
Frank's chronology pertains to US-spec cars.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

A Dalton

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Re: Production changes to 230SL ??
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2004, 17:54:45 »
The throttle plate iceing conditions are caused by venturi effect at low ambient temps due to the crankcase breather hose containing a substantial amount of crank moisture/water vapors which are carried from the engine to the throttle housing.
 The first remedy was the throttle loop heater , but that did not solve the freezing of the moisture in the breather hose, so the later remedy was to cuff the breather/vent hose to the heater feed line with an insulation surrounding tube [ that would be 044].
 If the breather hose passage freezes, it would create oil seal leaks .
 Frequent oil changes and a clean system are important to minimize crank water vapor.
 Another problem with vapor/freezing at low ambients is freezing at the Injection pump itself.  This is only on the later [ after R18y], .044 series- engine lubed pumps . Again, being lubed from the crankcase , they get the same moisture as  there is in the crank.
 In extreme freeze conditions, the only solution is to disconnect the breather hose at the throttle inlet for the Winter.....
 If one does have lots of crank vapors , a possibility of a seeping head gasket is also suspect...........
« Last Edit: November 05, 2004, 23:11:46 by A Dalton »

rwmastel

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Re: Production changes to 230SL ??
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2004, 10:13:10 »
quote:
Originally posted by Douglas

Frank's chronology pertains to US-spec cars.

Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220

OK, Thanks!

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL auto "Italian"

Ben

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Re: Production changes to 230SL ??
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2004, 04:55:04 »
So would there be any advantage in blocking the dipstick vent ??

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor

Malc

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Re: Production changes to 230SL ??
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2004, 09:55:24 »
quote:
Originally posted by Ben

So would there be any advantage in blocking the dipstick vent ??

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor



No, You might end up with pressure build up in the block and this might start to find it's way out through seals or anywhere else.
Malc

George Davis

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Re: Production changes to 230SL ??
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2004, 11:39:50 »
Arthur,

thanks for this info you gave: "the later remedy was to cuff the breather/vent hose to the heater feed line with an insulation surrounding tube [ that would be 044]."

That insulating cuff is a pain in the b.tt when it comes to removing the valve cover.  It's nice to know it has a real purpose!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual

A Dalton

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Re: Production changes to 230SL ??
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2004, 12:04:11 »
quote:
Originally posted by Malc

quote:
Originally posted by Ben

So would there be any advantage in blocking the dipstick vent ??

Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
'03 CLK Kompressor



No, You might end up with pressure build up in the block and this might start to find it's way out through seals or anywhere else.
Malc



 The favorite place is at the end of the tach cable, inside the car......

A Dalton

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Re: Production changes to 230SL ??
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2004, 12:07:34 »
quote:
Originally posted by George Davis

Arthur,

thanks for this info you gave: "the later remedy was to cuff the breather/vent hose to the heater feed line with an insulation surrounding tube [ that would be 044]."

That insulating cuff is a pain in the b.tt when it comes to removing the valve cover.  It's nice to know it has a real purpose!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual


 GD
 My Pleasure..
 While on the subject,...For those with the early moisture trap in the booster line, this is another place to make sure one checks and keeps empty..
 kinda wish they left that there on the later ones , too.