Originality vs Personal taste and choice

[scala]

Good evening and happy Christmas to those of you who celebrate this event,

So, I've just joined this forum. I own many cars, some listed on my profile, some not. I love the W113 and have a couple. I know nothing about mechanical and even less about the restoration process. By background I am a scientist. Recently I rescued a 280SL that was in fear of turning to dust - I certainly overpaid the old owner for it, as I had the simple idea that I would like to save it and have it restored and gifted to my young daughter when she turns 18 - she loves travelling with me in both of mine.

I approached 3 companies, one was unable to restore it for 3-4 years, simply too busy and in an environment that didn't look like it was very efficient.

The other was a gentleman who was unhappy with my proposed modifications, colour choice, interior, and audio selection - none of which was in line with the data card. It seemed to much effort to continue our discussion.

The final company, lead by a young man of 27 years with a team total passion and phenomenal knowledge of the w113, was perfectly happy to restore it in line with my requirements and deliver within 9 months. He was keen to hear it would be for my daughter and wold welcome a new younger generaition, like himself, to this classic car.

Please bear in mind that I do not care about long-term value and the W113 as a future investment - simply not a concern at all. I am more interested  in seeing more of these beautiful cars back on the road rather than buried in sheds or hidden away for years in the hands of hobbyists looking at every nut and bolt for authenticity

So, my question is this - is personal choice or originality more important. I know where I stand obviously but would like to hear from the Sl113.org community?

Thank you for any input.

I attach a picture of my smiling young girls in her father's pagoda - ready to go for a drive in this cold weather

[Jowe]

Of course, only the owner can decide what to do with his (or her) car. If he chooses to
deviate from the original condition by exchange rims, paint the body in another colour,
exchange the interior etc. it is an expression of his personal taste and preferences. No one
else should decide what he should do with his car, but they may have the freedom to
express either admire or lack of sympathy about what has been done with the car. The car
may be easily sold as is to a buyer with the same taste as the current owner or the next
buyer wants to do its own modifications or restore it to original condition.

If a car is being modified and deviating from its original condition one should also think
about how easy it will be reversed back to its original condition. Will it be expensive or even
impossible for a new owner to correct the modifications? Some buyers are not willing to pay
as much as if the car wasn’t in its original condition, or at least with a minor effort or
investment could become so. Of course, it is of one and every one’s choice to modify a car
per his own taste, but be clear about that it might lead to complications when the time
comes to sell the car.

[Rolf-Dieter ✝︎]

I agree with Johan completely and can only add that anyone in the business to serve others (in your case the individual you approached to do things that were not original on the car or data card), should always remember that "The Customer is always right"

As for value, it is all in the eyes of the beholder. You may get a bit less for the car (then you mentioned that you have no intention of selling it). Important is that if you make a change say replace the radio, then simply keep the original radio. Your daughter may some day in the very distant future decide to sell then the radio can always go with the car. As Johan mentioned other items like the paint can always be reversed.

Now you are in The UK there is someone perhaps near you that might help you (unless you have been there already). Colin is a member here his Web site is colinferns.com

Perhaps he can give you some help.

Good Luck,

Dieter

[PIP1947]

Hi Scala
I agree with much of what has been said by Rolf and Johan, but would add that personalising a Pagoda to suit one's particular tastes and needs is a good idea, especially if it makes the car safer and/or more pleasurable to use. I have fitted head rests, modern aircon and retractable seat belts to my 68 280SL and am about to fit 15" Barock style wheels, for better handling and braking. My car is a daily driver, so I want it to be as safe and as comfortable as it can be, without losing the charm of the original car. I am also fitting an armrest between the seats. While I would not change my lovely Tunis Beige Metallic, I will certainly change the original carpet colour, one day. I think exterior and interior colour changes can add value and improve some cars. Pagodas came in a bewildering array of beautiful colour combinations, so why not choose the one you like best! I look forward to hearing about the options you choose. Wishing you and all members a happy Xmas.
Pip 1947

[66andBlue]

... I certainly overpaid the old owner for it, as I had the simple idea that I would like to save it and have it restored and gifted to my young daughter when she turns 18 - she loves travelling with me in both of mine. ...
So, my question is this - is personal choice or originality more important. I know where I stand obviously ...

Do you also know already where your daughter will stand when she turns 18?
What if she wants to trade it in for an electric or driver-less car, or better a down payment for a house?

[Tomnistuff]

Hi, Scala,
I understand completely your conflict, and think that you should follow your dream.  You can have it both ways.
My first restoration was from a purist's point of view.  I restored a '69 Ferrari authentically to a prize-winning condition, then sold it because it was no fun any more.  It was too perfect to drive!  An hour's drive would result in a week's work to make it clean, scratch-less and pristeen again.
My current restoration (almost finished), is anything but purist.  It's a '66 MB 230SL, to which I've added A/C in a console of my own retro design, along with a backup camera and monitor, and a front camera in the grill.  I got tired of bumper dings.  The car also has wide white walls, a modern four channel retro style stereo radio with CD, USB and aux input, Garmin GPS with voice controlled everything, including hands free telephone, a flip-up wind breaker, cruise control and an upgraded 55A alternator.
All of the above are because I'm getting to old to care about purism and my wife doesn't like old cars, so I'm making it as luxurious as possible so she will use it with me.  I plan to drive it six months per year until
it dies or I do.
The only concession I made was to save all the original parts and to make no irreversible modifications.
As we used to say in the auto industry, it's only sheet metal.  Do what you like and enjoy it to the fullest.
Have fun!
Tom Kizer

[GGR]

well, there is no simple answer. If we were talking of a 300SL Gullwing or a Ferrari 250 GTO, I would say stick to originality. But Pagodas have been produced to quite high numbers. So originality is important on cars that have been exceptionally well preserved (cars are original only once!) or on the ones which have some historical importance, like the one of the Liege-Sofia-Liege for example.

Restoring to original condition, or to options and color combinations that were on the catalog will make the car easier to sell for a good price. And it is a reasonable guarantee for good taste. The problem with personalizing a car too much is that you will need to find a buyer who shares your taste.

Like Tom, I had my "nothing but original" days, many years ago. But then I started wondering what was so exciting about putting all that effort to come out with something close to what has been produced in the tens of thousands by a factory. I then rifted into making my cars the way I wanted them. The primary objective for me is to have as much pleasure driving them as often as possible, not keeping them original and locked up by fear of them loosing any value. My Pagoda is mechanically heavily modified and I wonder sometimes if I was right to do so. But that idea is immediately chased away just by imagining owning a stock Pagoda. In fact, I don't think I would even own a Pagoda if it was to be kept in stock form. I love the design of the Pagoda very much, but I also like fast cars. I had to modify my Pagoda to get both!

So I think you should do what you like. We live only once (though my wife who is of Indian descent sometimes tells me otherwise)! 

[Benz Dr.]

well, there is no simple answer. If we were talking of a 300SL Gullwing or a Ferrari 250 GTO, I would say stick to originality. But Pagodas have been produced to quite high numbers. So originality is important on cars that have been exceptionally well preserved (cars are original only once!) or on the ones which have some historical importance, like the one of the Liege-Sofia-Liege for example.

Restoring to original condition, or to options and color combinations that were on the catalog will make the car easier to sell for a good price. And it is a reasonable guarantee for good taste. The problem with personalizing a car too much is that you will need to find a buyer who shares your taste.

Like Tom, I had my "nothing but original" days, many years ago. But then I started wondering what was so exciting in putting all that effort to come out with something close to what has been produced in the tens of thousands by a factory. I then rifted into making my cars the way I wanted them. The primary objective for me is to have as much pleasure driving them as often as possible, not keeping them original and locked up by fear of them loosing any value. My Pagoda is mechanically heavily modified and I wonder sometimes if I was right to do so. But that idea is immediately chased away just by imagining owning a stock Pagoda. In fact, I don't think I would even own a Pagoda if it was to be kept in stock form. I love the design of the Pagoda very much, but I also like fast cars. I had to modify my Pagoda to get both!

So I think you should do what you like. We live only once (though my wife who is of Indian descent sometimes tells me otherwise)!

That's the funny thing about beliefs; you might be the only one who believes what you believe. And, just because you believe was it is that you believe, it doesn't always make it true.

[Jordan]

Scala, if the car is an investment keep it as original as possible.  If however it is not (which appears to be the case), and you are going to keep it and you and your daughter just want to enjoy driving the car, make whatever mods you want to make it a better and safer car.

[PIP1947]

"My current restoration (almost finished), is anything but purist.  It's a '66 MB 230SL, to which I've added A/C in a console of my own retro design, along with a backup camera and monitor, and a front camera in the grill.  I got tired of bumper dings.  The car also has wide white walls, a modern four channel retro style stereo radio with CD, USB and aux input, Garmin GPS with voice controlled everything, including hands free telephone, a flip-up wind breaker, cruise control and an upgraded 55A alternator.
All of the above are because I'm getting to old to care about purism and my wife doesn't like old cars, so I'm making it as luxurious as possible so she will use it with me."

Hi Tom
I share your sentiments and, like you, I have a wife who likes her comforts. Hence my view that modern upgrades are good, if they improve the car without destroying its character and appearance. I also "designed" my own period style aircon console, as per the photo below and would be interested to see a photo of your installation. I used bits from a wrecked 108 (1967 250 S ).
Regards
Pip 1947

[Tomnistuff]

Hi, Scala,
To see some photos of my console, go to the electrical and wiring section and search for the thread called, "Air con - to fix or not to fix".  I'm on my wife's IPad so I don't know how to add links.  Scroll down the second page to see some console photos.  Skip the red interior photo.  It was my "objective" sketch.  The blue interior with the console is mine, but I've since added a monitor and cruise control switches to the console as I complete the car.  I expect to drive it to PUB2017 - Virginia.
Tom Kizer