Author Topic: engine oil  (Read 8021 times)

sl600sl560

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engine oil
« on: January 19, 2017, 17:53:07 »
I've always used Mobil 1 for my newer MB engines.   I have two 250SLs.......both Papyrus White and sticks(1 blue int/top and 1 black).

The technical manual recommends Mobil1 15-50 with additional ZDDP

1. Is this the current favorite???    0-40 is the favorite for newer engines
2. What ZDDP level is recommended for the 250 engine???      (15-50 has 1200ppm and 0-40 has 1000ppm)

Thank you in advance, what a great site
Mike

franjo_66

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2017, 21:58:57 »
Hi Mike

Up until last year, I was also using Mobil 1 15-50 in my 230SL

However, I have switched over to Penrite HPR 30 (20W-60) as it has Zinc content of 1600ppm

Very happy with it (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=1&id_brand=1&id_products=4)

Regards
Franjo
Franjo

1965 230SL Black/Auto/RHD
2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
1983 BMW 735i
1986 560 SEC
1991 500SL
1982 Holden Statesman DeVille

Travis71280

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2017, 23:45:14 »
I have generic straight 30 in mine, but will be using VR1 SAE 30 on the next oil change for the added ZDDP when I start driving the car regularly. I already run VR1 in my truck for the same reason, helps reduce wear on flat tappet (non-roller) cam shafts. The reason newer cars run much lighter oils is because their engines have much tighter clearances than older vehicles (machining tolerances are much better than they were 40 years ago) which in tern requires a heavier weight (higher viscosity).

sl600sl560

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2017, 03:12:45 »
Thank you for your replies.   I decided to go one step further.   I researched Redline and Mobil 1......I even emailed Mobil with several questions including the advantages of ester based vs. PAO based stock and clarifications concerning viscosity(0-40 vs 15-50)

I already received a reply.......the Mobil 1 rep is doing further research on a few of the points.   I will post the final answers.

Best regards
Mike

Doug McAllister

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2017, 05:21:17 »
When I started looking at what oil to use, I found there are very opinionated people supporting widely varying products - many passionately.
Here are few things I found in my search: On page 7 of the MB Classic it says Mercedes recommends 20W-50 viscosity
I also found in the W113 oils attachment, info that states 20-50 is too thick and ZDDP additives are bad.
Another document I found has ratings of various oils.
None are consistent.
I chose to go with Valvoline VR1 racing oil
Doug M
Doug M 
1969 280SL MB
1988 928S4 Porsche
2014 Audi A5

Benz Dr.

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2017, 05:56:39 »
Our engines need zinc additives - modern engines don't.   I use 15 W 40 para syn oils suitable for diesel engines. The viscosity is in the right range, the have high zinc content, and they have a good detergent package. This is far more than what was available when our cars were new.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

TJMart

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2017, 20:30:35 »
I've used Valvoline Vr1 20w50 and have been happy with the viscosity and Zinc
Tony
1970 280SL, 4 Speed

hauser

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2017, 03:50:00 »
Metric recommends Castrol GTX for their rebuilds.

Paul99

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  • 230 SL White. 1966.
Re: engine oil
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2017, 15:48:50 »
Engine oils!  seems to be a minefield and so many thoughts etc.

I tend to use 20-50 mineral as here its seen as a "classic" oil.  Recently started adding ZINC (ZDDP) to the engine, I believe valvoline vr1 does have enough ZInc already but is expensive here.   Heard that too much zinc can also be a problem!

I have a couple of other old pushrod  V8 engines, Ford and Chevy and again seems they  want ZDDP and 20-50 mineral.

So my thought would be VR1 or classic oil 20-50 plus ZDDP.

Also told ZINC kills catalytic converters so dont add it to new cars. !


Cees Klumper

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2017, 17:27:49 »
Metric recommends Castrol GTX for their rebuilds.

That's good enough for me. Any word on the weight? I have used GTX full synthetic after the comprehensive rebuild.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
1990 Ford Bronco II

hauser

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2017, 18:08:32 »
I dont have the car back yet, still at Gernold's.  I can't remember exactly on the weight but 15W 40 sounds right.

Jordan

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2017, 16:42:25 »
I switched from Castrol GTX a few years ago to Shell Rotella T Triple Protection 15W40 as I found out it had a higher content of ZDDP than the Castrol.  I just noticed that Shell has replaced this oil with Shell Rotella T4 Triple Protection (still 15W40).  This is a modified formulation and they have bumped up the ZDDP to about 1300 ppm with added moly.  The tech said it is an ideal oil for prtecting flat tappet engines.
Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed

Benz Dr.

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2017, 18:42:44 »
I'm using a product called Super Syn 15 W 40 that I get from NAPA. I believe it's para syn - likely 50% or less. I use a lighter oil for break in.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

franjo_66

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2017, 22:03:59 »
I haven't come across an oil (yet) that exceeds the 1600ppm Zinc content of the Penrite HPR30. This was the major variable that drove me to this brand
Franjo

1965 230SL Black/Auto/RHD
2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
1983 BMW 735i
1986 560 SEC
1991 500SL
1982 Holden Statesman DeVille

Gilstrap

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2017, 02:18:01 »
This topic has always bothered me. I know the previous owner used conventional Quaker State 10w-30 in my car for years. Based on many recommendations from this site, I started using Valvoline VR1 20w-50, but longed for Mobil 1 since I use it in all my other cars. I wrote Mobil 1 and they provided the following information, which may have confused me more. I purchased Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w-30 synthetic due to the zinc levels and their recommendation, but haven't used it yet. Sorry for the choppiness of the cut and paste. Hopefully it makes sense without my questions included. I'd also love to hear your opinions.

Mobil guys:<<<<For a pre-1980 era engine, one of our criteria is usually to focus on oils with 1000 parts per million of zinc or better, to take good care of a flat tappet camshaft. We've got several oils that fit this profile. One of the most common viscosity recommendations for that time frame is going to be a 10W-30, but a 5W-30 would offer a little better protection during a cold start up.

Everything in the Mobil 1 High Mileage line has been specifically designed with a zinc content of 1100ppm. They are also designed to help clean sludge deposits that might impede flow through small oil passages. Finally, if you're running vintage style seals and gaskets, Mobil 1 High Mileage has seal conditioners that can help prevent leaks.
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-high-mileage


For most of these motors, for normal street use, we can go with a 30 weight at operating temperature. If you are in a hotter part of the country, I might recommend a 40. Likewise, if you're going to hotrod this car, or have done a rebuild that is little more "aggressive" than stock, we might still lean towards a 40.  If we need to handle extra heat, my Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 is a great alternative, with a zinc content of 1250ppm. It's been API rated for gas engines as well as diesel.
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-turbo-diesel-truck#5W-40

 
Thank you for choosing Mobil,

If the car runs hot enough for a 50, the Mobil 1 15W-50 is definitely an option. It also has our highest zinc content (1300 ppm) without jumping into a "track use only" racing oil. I have, however, seen cases of customers running a 50 in an engine better suited to a 30, with poor results. If you're not generating enough heat to justify a 50, your engine has to work harder circulating a heavier oil. In extreme cases, you can wind up pumping oil to the top end of the motor faster than it can drain back out. If you try the 15W-50, I would keep an eye out for oil coming out of a valve cover overflow. If that starts to occur, I would recommend stepping back down to a 40.

On the rebuilt engines or those with a new set of heads, we're still going to recommend an elevated zinc level if you're staying with a vintage style flat tappet cam shaft. If a rebuild involves an upgrade to a roller cam, we can look at dialing back the zinc content a little.

 
Thank you for choosing Mobil, >>>>


mdsalemi

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2017, 18:30:47 »
If the car runs hot enough for a 50, the Mobil 1 15W-50 is definitely an option. It also has our highest zinc content (1300 ppm) without jumping into a "track use only" racing oil...If you're not generating enough heat to justify a 50, your engine has to work harder circulating a heavier oil. In extreme cases, you can wind up pumping oil to the top end of the motor faster than it can drain back out. If you try the 15W-50, I would keep an eye out for oil coming out of a valve cover overflow. If that starts to occur, I would recommend stepping back down to a 40.

I've been using Mobil1 in various grades since the engine was rebuilt about 20K miles and 15 years ago. The past few years has been with the 15W-50 since the Zinc levels became a known issue. I don't know what "hot enough" means, but I think we have a hot [temperature] running car...but compared to what?

Typically the 15W-50 isn't stocked as religiously as the more common grades used on modern cars. When I needed a quart last year for top-off, a local auto parts chain had a few...at $8 per quart.  Thanks to Alfred Esser, he advised looking at WalMart during the sales, and for some reason they stock the 5 quart jugs of it and it was in the $25 range, much better than "by the quart". Now, when I buy it, its two jugs at a time.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

guyke

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2017, 19:19:22 »
i use this
https://www.kroon-oil.com/nl/catalogus/product/106/bi-turbo-15w-40/7/

its euhhhh oil , and it lubricate , and it becomes dirty like al the other oils , and its available everywhere and cheap  ;D ;D
and al my oldtimers are purring  like happy kittens whit this oil , i just change it every jear ( because its so cheap )  ::)

Benz Dr.

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Re: engine oil
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2017, 20:54:12 »
I've been using Mobil1 in various grades since the engine was rebuilt about 20K miles and 15 years ago. The past few years has been with the 15W-50 since the Zinc levels became a known issue. I don't know what "hot enough" means, but I think we have a hot [temperature] running car...but compared to what?

Typically the 15W-50 isn't stocked as religiously as the more common grades used on modern cars. When I needed a quart last year for top-off, a local auto parts chain had a few...at $8 per quart.  Thanks to Alfred Esser, he advised looking at WalMart during the sales, and for some reason they stock the 5 quart jugs of it and it was in the $25 range, much better than "by the quart". Now, when I buy it, its two jugs at a time.

Hot enough isn't about coolant temperature, it's about oil temp. A good oil temp is about 180 to 220 degrees F and our cars will attain 180 - 190 F after about 1/2 hour of driving depending on ambient air temps.  Coolant temps rise much more quickly and can be full in 5 - 10 minutes.

One thing no one mentioned is engine break in. I use a zinc additive for the first 500 miles when wear is at its highest level.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC